Time: "I want my Christianity back!"

a reply to: loam

IF you don't mind me asking.... exactly what is debatable about the lessons of Christ?

they are simplistic to say the least... common sense would be a better way of looking at them

His lessons are only muddled when you add the rest of the "good book" to what he taught...

a reply to: Rex282

I would like to add that from Jesus point of view they are goats (not Christians) not his sheep, no matter how much they believe they are sheep. He kinda made the point clear in Matthew 25:31-46 that not all who think they are his sheep measure up. Know them by their fruits.

Progressives decrying Christianity while they support abortion.

Oh the irony!

originally posted by: loam
a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Ah, read your link.

On topic:

Easy...then more Christians need to speak out against those who claim to speak for them.

Muslims have the same problem too, btw.

I agree that both Muslims and Christians are suffering from this and Jew and Israel is another example on how nasty people are allowed to speak for the whole unchallenged changing what it means to be part of the whole.

a reply to: Rex282

No, it's people being people.
No matter the standard they claim.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's not that easy.
We humans stereotype.
End of story.

Hell, there are times I have to reign myself in to avoid mistreating others for the sins of their peers.

a reply to: loam

Already did.
Case in point:

If we want a Christianity that doesn't come so unnecessarily cluttered with all of this ugly baggage, we are going to have to start standing up more consistently and begin challenging these power plays wrapped in religion.

Guess you need to take your own advice.
Since you're chiming in to defend someone who seems to have thought he was just railing at the media.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
a reply to: Rex282

I would like to add that from Jesus point of view they are goats (not Christians) not his sheep, no matter how much they believe they are sheep. He kinda made the point clear in Matthew 25:31-46 that not all who think they are his sheep measure up. Know them by their fruits.

That is not about who is a Christian and who isn't even though though many Christians will be the goats.This scripture is just as misconstrued as Matthew 7:21

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who do evil!

Many Christians believe this scriptures is referring to people that are heathens(non Christian) many Christians believe it is those that "profess" to be "Christian but aren't "Christian" like they are.

Yahoshua is speaking to both of those groups…of Christians.Non Christians don't say to Yahoshua '''Lord Lord didn't WE do MANY works IN your name".The only people that proclaim that believe they are Christians.He prefaced it by saying…

Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in SHEEPS clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Some Christians "use" this verse to try and discredit "anyone" they don't like that they don't believe are Christians or belive are heathens yet Yahoshua is saying just the opposite.It is those that say they "believe" THEY are sheep and bear good fruit because they "believe they alone "are "Christians" and are Yahoshuas sheep.

Most Christians say the verses that proceed that is proof of who is going to the eternal punishment of hell and aren't "Christians"yet it says no such thing.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. For the the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to life, and only a FEW find it.

The "Many" is everyone…all of mankind.Everyones path of "their"individual Belief System religion makes up the wide road that will lead to destruction.When their religion is destroyed(fire is used as a metaphor in other Yahoshua statements) they enter the narrow road and enter the Kingdom of the creator God (Life) through the small gate…and only few find it.....The chosen few…the disciples….no one else had their BS religion destroyed except the chosen few because….

Every one therefore that hears these words of mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man, who built his house upon the rock: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and if fell not: for it was founded upon the rock.

And every one that hears these words of mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and smote upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall .

Only the disciples were "given" to "know" and do what Yahoshua said (parable of the seed and soil)and they didn't know some things until years later with experience because it was a process.

The fact is Christianity is just a "herd" religion.Yahoshua nor the disciples started it or condoned it.Yahoshua "knew" it was coming(many will come in my name…) and warned the disciples.John experienced it in his time and called them 'antichrists" yet Christianity has thrived for two thousand years never understanding what Yahoshua nor the disciples said.I am not condemning Christians.They are only acting according to their nature and character..religion.They can do nothing else until the creator God "forgives" them.,,forgiveness means "freed from bondage"..the bondage of their Belief System religion because THAT is the fruit they are known by.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

The brand of Christianity this guy is claiming is nothing more than liberalized apostate Christianity. Jesus preached VERY HARD on sin and offended a lot of people with His words, which is why when He asked His disciples the question in Matthew 16:13-16...

13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

There is a very good reason why people thought that Jesus was John the Baptist, Elijah or Jeremiah... because all three of those guys preached VERY HARD on sin and they were very unapologetic, and they didn't care if you were offended by it, because the truth is the truth. This notion that Jesus Christ was some long haired hippie who spoke softly and loved everyone no matter what is false and unbiblical. There is a big difference between the Hollywood Jesus and the real Biblical Jesus. The former is made up... the later is the King and Creator of the Universe and savior of all people who humble themselves and believe on Him.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
Guess you need to take your own advice.
Since you're chiming in to defend someone who seems to have thought he was just railing at the media.

With all due respect, your post was not immediately clear without following the link. In my experience, links are generally used for sourcing and pertinent parts are quoted.

That is not to say that's how you have to do it. It is only to say that is what I expected.

Notwithstanding my confusion, I eventually did follow your link and edited my reply accordingly. What more do you want from me?

No need to get touchy.

It seems I largely agreed with your initial post.

Jesus would be pro abortion?

Lost me right there, bub. Be as radical as you like, but don't pretend that Christianity was ever what you think it ought to be. A good case can be made that the liberalization of post Vatican II Catholicism and the evangelical mainline churches in the 1970s and 80s has led to the general decline in church participation… change your theology to be "do whatever the hell you want to do", and it should be no surprise that the pews empty out.

Case in point: strict legalists the Seventh Day Adventists are America's fastest growing Christian denomination.

Fastest in decline: the hyper-liberal "do whatever the hell you want" Episcopal Church.

a reply to: loam

Couldn't include the whole thing, forum rules you know and what I included said nothing about the media.
So your response in defense of what-his-face was completely off base.

Not getting touchy, just responding in kind to how I was approached..
I tend to do that.

Want a better response?
Act better.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

This notion that Jesus Christ was some long haired hippie who spoke softly and loved everyone no matter what is false and unbiblical.

Prove it.
You seem to lack any scripture substantiating your claims in any direct matter.
You don't show any scripture of him saying what you claim.

Not that I hold much belief in Christian scripture.
I just feel inclined to point out you failed to prove your point.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows
Want a better response?
Act better.

Doctor heal thyself...

So your animosity is because I initially agreed with 'what's-his-face' ?? (Let's run with that name. buster2010 will find it endearing.) Ironic, because it's probably the only time I've openly agreed with him.

In any event, my apologies for misunderstanding your thread. Mistakes happen. No need to get pissy.

a reply to: loam

Animosity is taking it a bit too far.
No need to be quite so dramatic.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

An interesting article from nearly 10 years ago...

Hijacking Christianity

The American flag was appropriated by the political right wing years ago. Now the Christian right is trying to hijack religion. This time it shouldn't be allowed to happen without a fight.
...
Emboldened by their appropriation of the flag, ideologues on the right have now set their sights on religion, and specifically Christianity, as the means to promote their political agenda.
...
It means challenging them when they say of Americans who support a woman's right to choose; the right of two adults to enter into a loving, committed, state-sanctioned, monogamous relationship; the right to pursue science in support of life; the right of the aggrieved to launch aggressive assaults against racism, sexism and homophobia, that they are not legitimate members of the flock. Where do those on the religious right get off thinking they have the right to decide who is in and who is out? Who appointed them sole promoters and defenders of the faith? What makes them think they are more holy and righteous than the rest of us?

I think this guy was a prophet because that is EXACTLY what the religious right has done and continues to do to this day. They are a political organization who use their political connections to deny others their freedom. If I were a Christian, I would be furious that this group of imposters was speaking in my name.

And ten years later, these imposters actually think they are acting and working for the will of their God. The modern day Christian is so far removed from what a loving Christian should be, it blows my mind.

Let me state again, that I KNOW there are real Christians in this country. And I appreciate them and support them. I'm not talking about them. But the religio-political movement that has their nose in everyone else's business, judging, condemning, and working to deny equality, women's rights and to gain more and more power over others lives has NO business calling themselves Christian.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

But the religio-political movement that has their nose in everyone else's business, judging, condemning, and working to deny equality, women's rights and to gain more and more power over others lives has NO business calling themselves Christian.

If by "women's rights" you mean "pro-abortion", you're 100% wrong.

Liberals like you and the guy in the source article live in some dream world with a fantasy Christianity that somehow lines up with radical liberalism. Christianity is a religion, it is not a political system, and it has no political counterpart in the real world. A "Christian party" would be in favour of social justice, equal rights, income re-distribution, and other "liberal" things, but it would also be in favour of laws against abortion, pornography, prostitution, gay marriage and other "conservative" things.

There is no such thing, politically, because Christianity is a religion, it is not a political system. The people in your article are pushing the issues that they are because they are conservatives, not because they are Christians, regardless of what they say.

My Christian beliefs are largely what keeps me a centrist, because I can't side with either the Democrats or Republicans in good conscience.

originally posted by: adjensen
If by "women's rights" you mean "pro-abortion", you're 100% wrong.

I don't mean pro-abortion. NO ONE is pro-abortion. Women's rights consist of the freedom to choose what she does with her life and her body. It's really no one else's business.

Liberals like you and the guy in the source article live in some dream world with a fantasy Christianity that somehow lines up with radical liberalism.

Jesus was a liberal.

He rejected greed, violence, the glorification of power, the amassing of wealth without social balance, and the personal judging of others, their lifestyles and beliefs.

Certainly, Jesus brought a radically Liberal theology to the Orthodox believers of his time. Jesus IS a Liberal even today
because now more than ever, His principals align with the very core of Liberal Beliefs.

Source

If you're not judging gay people, you don't deny them marriage.

Christianity has become more of a political entity than an actual religion.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Jesus was a liberal.

Only to liberals, lol.

Jesus was socially liberal, and morally conservative, exactly as I said before.

Our society is in the sad state that it is because we've allowed the conservatives to feed social degeneracy and the liberals to feed moral degeneracy, exactly the opposite of what Christ taught.

a reply to: adjensen

Are we reading the same article?
The one I read is decrying the very thing self styled "conservatives" are doing.
Using religion as a pretext.
And sorry, but even if we forget the topic of this current conversation.
Organized religion has everything to do with politics.