Bush admin charges of Irans new weapon

Yes dgtempe, maybe you have a point, but I also find it highly ironic that the UN, along with most of the world community must have had "bad intelligence" also, huh? I mean, after all, didn't the UN and most of the world intelligence community have Saddam/Iraq as having WMDs? I still find it ironic that the UN, to this day, still has Iraq listed as having "unaccounted for" WMDs?



seekerof

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Umm, Bush doesn't need to 'charge' Iran of creating new long-range missiles nor of actively seeking nuclear capabilities. All one has to do is wait for the Iranian clerics and such to speak, eh?

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL
Rafsanjani reasserts Iran nuke right
Iran working on secret missile programs: opposition group
Exiles: Iran Making Missiles That Could Hit Europe

seekerof

Seekerof, do you know this : www.theunjustmedia.com... ?

Moku, wasn't it you that specifically told a member the other day, to take his "propaganda" information elsewhere, when the member posted 'materials' to your thread? Likewise, would this apply to you?


seekerof

Originally posted by dgtempe
We will stop at nothing to go to war.

So you feel that these are lies and iran just wants the nuclear tech for power generation? And these reports of ICBM tech are fabrications or 'misleading or unverififed' statements?

Until you open your eyes, you will never see anything else.

Wasnt it you who said your 'eyes are wide shut'? Do you prefer not looking at anything in a constructive manner and depend on flaming your favorite scapegoat, George Bush? If this is all you have to offer the world I am very sorry.

Iran has and will always be considered a threat to the United States. Regardless of what President is in office, regardless on what our foreign policy is, there will always be a conflict there. They are the ones who started this, not us, remember? Now if they want to aquire weapons of mass destruction we will have to do something. I'm more expecting a bombing campaign than a war though, IF anything at all! But that is just purely speculative on my part so I will stop from further comment.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Yes dgtempe, maybe you have a point, but I also find it highly ironic that the UN, along with most of the world community must have had "bad intelligence" also, huh? I mean, after all, didn't the UN and most of the world intellignece have Saddam/Iraq as having WMDs? I still find it ironic that the UN, to this day, still has Iraq listed as having "unaccounted for" WMDs?



seekerof

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Seekerof]

If i remember correctly the inspectors only found some missiles that could travel a greater distance than Iraq was allowed to have.



[edit on 3-12-2004 by Trent]

Originally posted by marg6043
Well people start cleaning a piece of land in the garden to produce your own products because our economy is going to get worst.

So soy bean grows almost any where and it will feed the family. Too bad the residential rules does not allowed to have a cow for milk, cheese and butter, and chickens are out of the question but I think if I put a high enough fences I can smuggle some pigs.

NWO is coming, take over the world, we people are expendable.

By the way is UK in favor of a Iran take over by the US are they backing up all these allegations by the US.?

[edit on 3-12-2004 by marg6043]

I'm from the UK. I can't speak for everybody, but there would be very little support for a US invasion of Iran over here. Fortunately I don't think there will be an invasion anyway - it would be impossible for the USA to pull it off, unless it drafted a lot more troops! Air strikes are the most likely outcome - and there wouldn't be much support for those in the UK either.

I highly doubt the UK would take part in air strikes, apart from maybe in the background with re-fueling or some other support role. Tony Blair is skating on pretty thin ice with the UK population right now - and with elections coming up next year I don't think he'll be risking any of our troops/pilots by supporting the USA again.

My guess: Bombs and Cruise missiles striking Iran's nuclear facilities and C&C centers in May next year.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Curio]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Moku, wasn't it you that specifically told a member the other day, to take his "propaganda" information elsewhere, when the member posted 'materials' to your thread? Likewise, would this apply to you?

seekerof

Sorry for my propaganda, it was just a reaction to yours

Build, my eyes are open alright, so much so in fact that i can forsee the future now.
Bush has an agenda, and that is war, NWO, dictatorship and the elimination of millions on this planet. The man suceeded in invading Iraq and believes(God speaks) that he will succeed with invasion of other countries. Invading Iraq got him re-elected by the sheep and like i said before, another invasion would probably assure him his post as dictator.
WE WILL NEED HIM TO PROTECT US FOREVER.

Pleeeze, dont tell me my eyes are shut. This mans agenda will be the death of us all.
Of course i generalized the facts i stated above, and if none of this happens i will go down in ATS history as the girl in the tin hat, but for now you might as well listen to me....i have a point.

If Iran indeed has nuclear power, and find themselves in a hole about US attacking them, the Iranian government has a duty to his nation population, who is to said that prior to an "attack" they will not use their nuclear power to destroy Israel as a vendetta.

The repercussions of US using his war on terror to attack countries in the middle east will have repercussions, nations will not willingly submit to an aggressor.

Logic and reasoning should be used in dealing with problems that will impact our nation and the world.

US is not the only country in the world, and is not the oldest surviving one either.

Is only one earth and we all living in it.

BTW thanks for the UK information I imagine how they will take this new US attack on Iran very serously and you have elections coming next year too.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043


Logic and reasoning should be used in dealing with problems that will impact our nation and the world.



[edit on 3-12-2004 by marg6043]

Right Marg, and that is one thing Mr. Bush and his people do not have.

Do I believe that iran is going after nuclear capabillity : YES
DO I believe that Bush makes all kind of BS accusations regardless the iranians really have nukes: YES

Now about this latest missile story, suposedly able to reach Europe? Is that supposed to scare us and support an invasion in Iran, Europe has no big problem/grudge with Iran.

If there Iran is having medium range missiles, than the one most worried should be Israel not Europe and the citizens of the united states should not be too worried bout attack on their cities, but usa corporations/stockholders should be very much worried about irans influence on saoudi/usa oilfields

Ma$$ destruction, not mass destruction is at stake. Well, I guess enough fear will be peddled to secure the corporate interests at the price of many thousands of foreign lives and a few dozen young american males , thinking they are actually defending their country for a good cause....

We are now within reach.
We are now within reach.
We are now within reach.

Remember the 45 minutes we had before Iraq could strike us dead with their WMD"s?

Originally posted by Trent
If i remember correctly the inspectors only found some missiles that could travel a greater distance than Iraq was allowed to have.
[edit on 3-12-2004 by Trent]

yes, by 15 miles

The day the USA will be within reach of Iranian nukes will be the day peace comes to the middle east

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Mokuhadzushi]

Originally posted by Trent
Lets just hope the US listens to the UN's findings this time, it seems they were right about Iraq

The UN did not state that Iraq had gotten rid of its WMD. It said that its inspectors were still looking and wanted more time. THere is a difference. No one could demonstrate, except hussein, that they had destroyed their WMD. And whatever was in those documents that they submited, it wasn't enough to convince Hans Blix.

Like the boy who cried

Excellent analogy. Especially since its shown that it was very slim 'data' that the admin used to make statements about what they had and what they were doing with it. It should've, hopefully, been a shock to the members of the admin itself.

i mean, really, how the hell can the intelligence agencies of the most powerful country on the planet not know which countries have what WMDs!?

Originally posted by dgtempe
We are now within reach.
We are now within reach.
We are now within reach.

Remember the 45 minutes we had before Iraq could strike us dead with their WMD"s?

That was Allawi the one that his "intelligence review" Bush trusted and guess what Allawi was rewarded with Iraq in a silver platter.

Hey I got some "intellingence" information, but I want a country for my efforts.

As it turns out, the US is tying to frame Iran in on NPT violation : www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do these missile have anything to do with Irans satellite program or is it just me?

Moscow, Nov 27, IRNA -- Iranian and Russian officials will resume
talks on the project concerning Zohreh Satellite as of Monday, it
was announced here Saturday.
According to Iran`s embassy in Moscow, a Russian delegation
will leave for Tehran on Sunday.
The Russian delegation, whose members have not yet been declared,
will discuss the issue with the officials of Iran`s Ministry of
Communication and Information Technology.
The project has been on the agenda of both countries for a while,
but no agreement has so long been reached due to various reasons.
During the upcoming visit, the Russian delegation is intent on
following up the issue to reach an accord.
Iran`s Ambassador to Moscow, Gholam-Reza Shafei had earlier
referred to the bureaucracy dominating both countries as one of the
obstacles interfering with expansion of economic cooperation.
According to Shafei, the failure to implement the satellite
project several years after the primary agreement was reached
between Iran and Russia is one such example.

and also




Beijing, Dec 1, IRNA -- Iran and China signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) in Beijing on Tuesday to consolidate bilateral cooperation in the field of aerospace technology and sciences.
The agreement was signed by head of Iran's Space Agency Seyed Hassan Shafti and Chinese National Space Agency Administrator Laiyan Sun.

The MoU sets the framework for exchange of information and experts between Iran and China.

Under the MoU, the two sides are to use aerospace technology for peaceful purposes, particularly telecommunication and research satellites.

Prior to the signing ceremony, Shafti and Laiyan held talks on bolstering bilateral and regional cooperation.

Shafti, who is also deputy minister of information and communication technology, arrived in Beijing at the invitation of his Chinese counterpart on Monday.

The Iranian delegation headed by Shafti, during its stay, paid visit to several Chinese centers for science, research and aerospace technology.

China has put 47 scientific and research satellites into orbit till now, the country is about to put 100 more satellites into orbit by 2020.


[edit on 3-12-2004 by Sep]

Originally posted by Seekerof
Umm, Bush doesn't need to 'charge' Iran of creating new long-range missiles nor of actively seeking nuclear capabilities. All one has to do is wait for the Iranian clerics and such to speak, eh?

RAFSANJANI SAYS MUSLIMS SHOULD USE NUCLEAR WEAPON AGAINST ISRAEL
Rafsanjani reasserts Iran nuke right
Iran working on secret missile programs: opposition group
Exiles: Iran Making Missiles That Could Hit Europe


You guys and your abilities to be objective (as in checking both sides information) is quite befuddling, if not astounding.

seekerof

In the first like Rafsajani calls a nuke a deterent, second he says the nuke industry will continue (noone said it will stop indefenaitly) third and fourth links are opposition groups who joined the IRaqi army to take over Iran and are on every terror group list including US. For some reason I dont trust them much.

if they were to launch an attack it would spark an assault of astounding proportions. we would claim the prize of their land and probably kill millions in the process. peacful means to a relative world would be an ideal solution, they are in no need of oblitoration anyways. they are formidable but not invincible!

Iran's great strength is its abundant energy resources: It holds 7% of the world's proven oil reserves and its supplies of natural gas are second only to Russia's.

Moreover, having avoided the conflict that has engulfed neighbouring Afghanistan and Iraq in the last three years, Iran is currently enjoying something of an economic boom.

The economy has grown by more than 7% for each of the past two years, and is forecast to expand by a further 6.5% in 2004 and 2005.

Iran's economy is marked by a bloated, inefficient state sector, over reliance on the oil sector, and statist policies that create major distortions throughout. Most economic activity is controlled by the state.

A second difficulty is that the Iranian economy is dominated by a sprawling, with private enterprise largely limited to small trading and service businesses.

Iran's military industrial complex is almost self-sufficient and vertically integrated. Its explosives and chemical weapons are petroleum-derived and hence are an easy spin-off of its sprawling commercial petrochemical infrastructure. Metal fabricating and smelting have become major export industries and are fed by a domestic mining industry yielding 11 million tonnes of iron ore per year along with substantial amounts of copper, lead, zinc, manganese, chrome and coal. Iran's steel industry is by far the largest in the Middle East. Minerals are shipped from mine to smelter to foundry to factory to army base along a growing network of state-owned railways.

Iran's proven reserves of oil are 130,000 billion barrels while current oil extraction is about 3.5 billion barrels per year. Newly discovered reserves and enhanced technology, on-shore and off, keep the proven reserve growing more than enough to replenish the amount lost to extraction. Natural gas reserves are 23 trillion cubic metres, the second largest in the world. With petroleum prices extraordinarily high, the Iranian state treasury's foreign hard currency holdings and precious metals�the Ayatollah's war chest�is approaching $30 (US) billion. Foreign investment in the energy sector is primarily supplied by Russians and French corporations. Iran's ballooning electricity supply is derived from burning natural gas (76.5%) and petroleum (19%).

they are going to be much more persuasive in the years to come, more realiance on russia and china economy will most likely form strong bonds between nations. our administration will most certainly try and downplay this for their own politcal influence. iraq was not very popular.

The backbone of Iran's strategic missile force consists of 200-300 North Korean produced SCUD-B and -C missiles (with ranges of 320 km and 500 km respectively) and 200 or more Chinese CSS-8 missiles (with a range of 150 km). These are armed with conventional and perhaps chemical warheads. Iran's missiles can reach major population centers in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and the smaller Arab Gulf states. In addition, Iran is funding North Korea's development of the Nodong-1 missile, which -- with its 1,300-km range -- will be able to strike Israel. The project is reportedly plagued with technical and financial problems, however, and it may be a year or more before the missile attains operational status and is transferred to Iran.

the rapid growth of their economy is sure to ensure more and more relible weapons capabilities as time goes on. iran is a threat that should be taken very seriously. if an attack were to occur it would be one hellavu bloody battle. lets see what they got.

As of 2000 it was estimated that only 40 of the 132 F-4Ds, 177 F-4Es and 16 RF-4E. Phantoms delivered before 1979 remained in service. At that time, approximately 45 of the 169 F-5E/Fs delivered are still flying, while perhaps 20 F-14A Tomcats of the 79 initially delivered were airworthy. Another 30 F-4s, 30 F-5s and 35 F-14s have been cannibalized for spare parts. One report suggested that the IRIAF can get no more than seven F-14s airborne at any one time.

An unknown number of "new" Su-25s were delivered to the Iranian Revolution Guards Corps Air Force (IRGCAF) in 2003. Where these Frogfoots originate from is unclear.

In July 2003 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAIC) unveiled the new �Super-7� or Chao Qi fighter plane to the public. The new Super-7 is �an all-purpose light fighter, required to have all-weather operation capabilities, be capable of performing the dual tasks of dogfight and air-to-ground attack, and have the ability to launch medium-range missiles. Mass production of the fighter will not begin until two and a half years of research are completed. The plane is being produced to be sold abroad to developing nations. China already has received orders from Iran and some African countries.

There have been reports of some 10 F-8Ms, 7 Tu-22Ms, 19 MIG-27s, and several MIG-31s being present in Iran, but these are not confirmed.

The Iranian Army numbers 350,000, of whom 250,000 are conscripts. The Iranian government demands 21-month mandatory military service from all fit young men. The Army Reserves, mostly ex-Army volunteers, total close to 400,000. The Revolutionary Guard numbers 125,000 and controls the �popular mobilization army� of about 300,000 which can number up to one million during wartime. An elite 40,000 troop ground force is under the command of the Minister of the Interior. In a popular war, the Iranian Army General Staff could quickly field one million infantry armed with an array of locally manufactured AK-47s, RPG-7s, and light mortars. Iran has been self-sufficient in the manufacture of these and other infantry weapons for over thirty years. This infantry, when given access to Iran's civilian multi-million vehicle fleet of light trucks, cars and buses, remains the main threat to American forces stationed in Iraq. The Iran-Iraq border is 1,400 km long and the US and UK together have a grand total of about 100,000 fighting troops in Iraq.

The Toophan 2 is a 1.5 metre, 19 kilogram tube-launched missile carrying a four kilogram explosive charge. It is connected to a joy stick by four kilometres of dental-floss-thin wire. It hits speeds of 310 metres a second and can punch through over two feet of solid steel. They have recently developed a laser-beam-riding version of the same missile. The same plant also manufactures a Soviet designed anti-tank missile.

www.google.com...




























[edit on 3-12-2004 by sturod84]