The death penalty. It's time for another look.

Today, 60% of Americans support the death penalty, and I know that very many of you here at ATS fervently support it. I just have a few points that I would like you to consider.

1. The death penalty is a poor deterrent of capital crimes. This applies not to a repeat capital crime by the candidate for execution, but to a general deterrent to others who might contemplate a capital crime.
2. The death penalty is extremely expensive compared to a sentence of life without parole.
3. The death penalty has shown to be increasingly cruel, which is a constitutional prohibition. In 2014, states are seeking a viable (pardon the pun) access to drugs for lethal injection. The latest execution in Arizona lasted almost two hours.
4. The USA is in a very select club, along with China, Iran, Afghanistan, and Belarus (the only European nation that executes its prisoners.
5. Our death penalty has a long history of mistakes and miscarriages of justice.

My question to the true believers: In your mind, is this perfect justice?

a reply to: Diderot

Who knows? I never did anything to warrant the death penalty but I look around at the world state and I know I have it coming! I'll die from something I have no control over...Food manipulation, my flight goes POOF, oops we misplaced a killer virus etc, etc!

I don't believe in the death penalty because we have a very skewed injustice system where 90% of trials don't even go to jury. Not to mention that it is not 100% accurate and there have been quite a few instances of people being put to death only to later been found innocent. Anything less than 100% accuracy is morally unacceptable.

a reply to: minkmouse

Oh minkmouse! You are being as coy as your kitten.
Oh pretty little kitty!

It's an absolute waste of human life. I use the term 'waste' literally, someone convicted of a crime which could constitute that type of punishment should forfeit their humanity and be used as a device to enlighten and further the human race. As in used for medical experimentation or extremely dangerous one time jobs etc etc.

That way they can really 're-pay' their debt to society...

a reply to: OrphanApology

"Anything less than 100% accuracy is morally unacceptable."

I agree. This is a case where anything less than 100% alive
means that you are 100% dead.

Ironically, i've also found that those who are pro life tend to support death penalty and those who are pro choice are against it.

Like OprhanApology said the government has proven it's incapable of wielding such a power.

Also the cost of keeping them in prison for life is less of a financial burden, since typically the court costs racked up over the years of trials surpass the feeding and keeping them in prison.

thanks for bringing awareness to the topic Diderot

a reply to: Diderot

a reply to: Diderot

Not possible...And I have the scars to prove it

a reply to: Skinon

"It's an absolute waste of human life. I use the term 'waste' literally, someone convicted of a crime which could constitute that type of punishment should forfeit their humanity and be used as a device to enlighten and further the human race. As in used for medical experimentation or extremely dangerous one time jobs etc etc.
That way they can really 're-pay' their debt to society..."

This is a truly enlightened view of justice. Any justice that does not reduce and deter future crimes is less than just.

There is no evidence that capital punishment deters anything..its societys form of revenge/retribution and I do get that to some degree.
Having said that I have not much faith in the justice system to get it right. The death penalty is also not fairly applied, wasn't too long ago they put a retarded man to death and you have of course more minorities and poor who get the death penalty.
Life in prison will suffice for me.

a reply to: knightsofcydonia

I think that it is time to rejoin the vast majority of nations that have abandoned
this relic of ancient justice.

It's just. If somebody killed a member of my family, I would demand justice. Justice, when it comes to particularly heinous crimes is meant to legally exact that justice for the victims so they do not have to violate law.

What needs another look is the idiots in charge of administering this justice. When we are going to end a life in the pursuit of justice, you can't cut corners, save money or have second rate employees. It should continue but it should continue with integrity and a high level of skill.

If a state can't manage to kill a person humanely, well, they should cease to be a state and go back to territory status because everyone from the governor to the DA to the warden is unfit for the job. It's 2014, it's not rocket science.

Yeah let's keep convicted murderes safe and sound... God forbid they suffer or more tax payers money is wasted on housing them....

This will cause a big increase in violent prison crimes and suicides. GENIUS!

a reply to: minkmouse

Yes, that feline gaze does look formidable.
But we know who is in charge, don't we?

a reply to: Diderot


At the end of the day it's more judgement and where does that end? I gain power, formulate a set of beliefs that you must live by, and when you fail.....? We find ourselves within a system of judgement far from a court of the elders, wise jurors or even balanced charges against us because our system is based on greed and fear. In this system, justice will be the result of a skewed mechanism.

a reply to: Diderot

The animal

a reply to: minkmouse

"At the end of the day it's more judgement and where does that end? I gain power, formulate a set of beliefs that you must live by, and when you fail.....? We find ourselves within a system of judgement far from a court of the elders, wise jurors or even balanced charges against us because our system is based on greed and fear. In this system, justice will be the result of a skewed mechanism."

All I can say is that you have to scream bloody murder, and let them know that you are not to be trifled with.
The job of being a good citizen is not easy.

a reply to: Diderot

Allow me to answer your direct question first.

My question to the true believers: In your mind, is this perfect justice?

No.

If you'll allow some discussion, I think you'll find that may be the last place I agree with you.

1. The death penalty is a poor deterrent of capital crimes. This applies not to a repeat capital crime by the candidate for execution, but to a general deterrent to others who might contemplate a capital crime.

I don't think it has to be. That's not it's purpose. But even it it was, there's a very good reason that it's not a deterrent.

Amnesty International says that 43 people were executed in the US in 2012. FBI Stats for the same period show there were 14,173 murders and non-negligent manslaughters. So, for 1,000 murders there were three executions. No wonder it's not a deterrent.

2. The death penalty is extremely expensive compared to a sentence of life without parole.

it's only expensive because of the legal costs. The fact that society is willing to pay those costs shows how important it is.

Besides, there's no such thing as guaranteed life in prison. Any sentence can be shortened or eliminated by the Governor. I have no trouble imagining the head of a state or country saying, "I think I'll let the (fill in the group) go free. I don't disapprove of what they did."

3. The death penalty has shown to be increasingly cruel, which is a constitutional prohibition. In 2014, states are seeking a viable (pardon the pun) access to drugs for lethal injection. The latest execution in Arizona lasted almost two hours.

Why is it increasingly cruel? Because death penalty opponents asked for more humane methods of execution, drugs were introduced. Besides, if it was not cruel at all would you reverse your position? Thought not.

Why not go with beheading or shooting? Everybody else does. Only the US and China use drugs.

4. The USA is in a very select club, along with China, Iran, Afghanistan, and Belarus (the only European nation that executes its prisoners.

Really? Amnesty International reported that in 2012, fifty-eight countries handed down death sentences. (Including Barbados, India, Japan, and many others.)

The US issued 77 death sentences. Algeria, India, Iraq, North Korea, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Thailand, and Vietnam, all handed down more death sentences than the United States.

5. Our death penalty has a long history of mistakes and miscarriages of justice.

All of our penalties have long histories of mistakes and miscarriages. From traffic tickets on up. You must think the death penalty is substantially worse than life in prison. Why? They both die in prison. They could die from being raped, shivved, or in a prison riot. Is it really so much worse to know the day of your death? Perhaps you believe it is, all right then.

Where do you consider the impact on society and the victims? If murdering someone gets you life in prison, what about forcible rape, kidnapping, and other serious crimes? It would be a serious mistake, as you should be able to see, to impose the same sentence as for murder.

And society as a whole? "We believe that killing a person unlawfully is the worst crime which can be committed. We have decided to impose the harshest possible sentence to reflect our beliefs and sense of Justice." Are you willing to throw that away?

There's more, of course, but that's a start for you.

a reply to: minkmouse

Which animal?
The big animal or the little animal?
Don't answer that question.
I know the answer.

The death penalty is not just about justice. It is about ridding the planet of someone that has committed a crime so heinous, so deplorable that they do not deserve to live any longer. I personally think ANY murderer should automatically be given the death penalty. I also think it should be done by firing squad,(much cheaper), and a lot sooner than it takes today. The real waste of money is housing these monsters costing taxpayers their hard earned money. Let me ask you, if one of your family was savagely murdered by someone, would you not want to kill them? What, do you just "pray" for them, or give them the right to live a life whereas YOUR loved one does not get that chance? Just my two cents