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Kill Them, Make Them Suffer !

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posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 08:30 AM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
a reply to: VoidHawk

There is so many ways to look at this it would make a person crazy.

The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens, and I don't want that. This is why the mob had rules everyone knew the rules, you didn't want to kill a mob guy.

Personally I think it should be a long time in jail and your life is so miserable while there you wish you were dead. None of this television, exercise equipment, conjugal visit kind of stuff.


"The penalty needs to be so that a person says holy cow if I kill so and so this happens"
The problem is that (unless its a mob killing) most murders are done in anger, when the murderer isn't thinking about the consequences, so I dont think it matters what the punishment is.

Whats your view on the person who is an upright citizen, never done a bad thing in there life, but something causes them to momentarily flip and they find they've just killed someone. Are they the same as the Mob murderer?


The thing I always found interesting about the mob is, they had rules, strict rules everybody knew them. They even had a oath, follow it or die. There were consequences for your actions, something sorely missing from today. Today like everything else in America the legal system is based on the size of your wallet. So the rules are based on your wealth.

I don't think the parents of a slain child care one way or the other what motivated the killer of their child. If it was a matter of anger motivating murder then bodies would be stacked to the roof in Washington, and some of them would be mine. If you show a lack of judgement in your passionate anger and kill someone, then your lack of control should be exercised from behind bars.

" Are they the same as the Mob murderer?"[/]

This is the beauty being judged by a jury of your peers. You can't arbitrarily decide that for everyone it is case by case.




posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:33 AM
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There are some who think earth is going to ascend, and I keep thinking, there would be a huge hole in the fabric of reality if so. Because, the way I see it is, infinite frequency realms and infinite beings, and they all vibrate somewhere and need a space to do that.

Earth is nearly a hellzone. To complicate things, there are different regions carved up into different frequencies as well, so earth has both higher pocket realms and lower pocket realms.

Capital punishment fits in with the lower realms on earth. Its demonic. Its retaliation. And the DNA tests done have shown, alot of the people they're killing are innocent of the crime, which makes sense to me as most crimes to me are carried out by the police, and higher ups in every town and region, because they're satanists and dark occultists to a large extent, and very corrupt mafia run type groups.

Its murder 1, something 12 people and a judge in sound mind and body, removed from the crime (ie, not the victims father or relative in a fit of anger, which at least is human and understandable, responding to the crime).

Its Beast, Satan and Lower Mind. All forms of giving into vile and base impulses and emotions to harm or kill or retaliate, are Beast/Satan/Lower Mind, and repulsive. But at least if the person has suffered great pain and loss of a loved one, its understandable. This isn't however and puts blood and murder on innocent children in society.
edit on 24-7-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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I believe people are programmed into being reactive and making snap decisions that are horrenous, ie weaponized opinions, and then tossing it out of mind as if its nothing and their right. People are goaded into reacting, but not encouraged, or taught to think deeply on any subject. Though there are different frequency realms on earth as well, so some are from more lower mind frequency than others, and due to the amount of ritual sacrifice bloodlines/PTB conduct with all of nature and human life, from wars, starvation, cancer, poverty, slave labor, and real torture murder of some in ceremonies, they bring in more souls from lower realms as well, as earth is lowered.
edit on 24-7-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: Unity_99
I believe people are programmed into being reactive and making snap decisions that are horrenous, ie weaponized opinions


While I know thats what is going on, I've never defined it to my self in that way, but you are right!



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

"I can respect and understand your anger but executions have been going on since the beginning of time and the executions were held in public areas so this bloodlust that we have has been imprinted in our DNA for centuries.

We are what we are."

And what we are is a world that advances by rejecting old barbarities. Execution in the public square is no longer civilized in our culture. Most of the world today shuns execution, and one day we will again throw this bloodsport on the trash heap of history.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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There are some people who can not be allowed to walk on earth because they are so evil, they cannot be reformed and they're not worth the money it takes to keep them in a cage. Unfortunately, our methods of executing them have changed to ways that aren't 100% effective(thanks liberals). Lets go back to public hangings. They work every time and they're cheap. Do it on court house lawns in full public view.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Hi Kangaruex4Ewe
You said


I waffle back and forth on the whole issue


Is that because your being swayed by other peoples replies? or are you flip flopping as you think about it?
I had spotted your post in the other thread and starred it because you were at least giving it some thought, unlike many who just seemed to want blood.

What do you think about the issue of the condemned persons children having to be told their father is going to be killed? Many people refuse to go there! Just wondering what your thoughts are on it?



I waffle for a few reasons and none of them have anything to do with what anybody else replies. I have been back and forth with this issue for almost as long as I can remember.

I do consider myself a Christian. Not a church going Christian, but a believer all the same. I don't really feel that it is my place to flip anybody's switch. Feeling that way, it would be a little hypocritical to expect someone else to do it if I did not want to. I PERSONALLY do not want to take anyone's life.

I waffle because I have lost a child. Not due to any violence, but I know the pain. I can not honestly tell anyone here that I would not want some sort of retribution while the fire still burned hot. I would like to think that I could/would rise above it... But if I am being honest, I do not know what I would feel in the immediate aftermath. I can understand to an extent why people call for the death penalty in some cases. I may not always agree with it, but I can respect some of the emotions behind it.

I also take into account the many innocent people (as I said earlier) that have been released from death row after DNA testing became a tool. Killing one innocent in the effort to kill the guilty is not really worth it. Anyone can claim that it is, but I say they would change the claim if it were them sitting there unable to prove their innocence.

So I suppose I still waffle because I am human. I have empathy but I am also honest enough to admit that if my whole family had been wiped out I am not sure how I would feel afterwards. In all honesty many of us will never know (thankfully) what it would be like to struggle with that kind of hurt and anger.

As to your question? That can be answered in my first paragraph. I would never want to be the one to throw the switch or give the injection. That being said, I can't really expect anyone else to do so. I think it's tragic that we live in a world that we even have to contemplate these things. I suppose you could say I am 98% against the death penalty, but there are cases (mostly involving children) where the crime is so horrific that I have a hard time keeping my emotions out of it. That is my honest answer. It may not be good enough for many, but it is honest.
edit on 7/24/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: thesaneone

"I can respect and understand your anger but executions have been going on since the beginning of time and the executions were held in public areas so this bloodlust that we have has been imprinted in our DNA for centuries.

We are what we are."

And what we are is a world that advances by rejecting old barbarities. Execution in the public square is no longer civilized in our culture. Most of the world today shuns execution, and one day we will again throw this bloodsport on the trash heap of history.


When you stone, cane, and kill people in a public square to set an example, and slavery of all kinds still exist today this world has a long way to go. I don't think I am going to see it in my lifetime. The UN isn't interested in addressing it, nor is the greatest power in the world, we talk about human rights and give lip service to things seriously wrong.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: VoidHawk

Interesting how the thread, which brings into focus several discussion points sways most heavily toward the initial issue of capital punishment. Yet your main points were not capital punishment, but the emotional responses to that issue and the much larger one of the emotional reactions and how they may or may not be nudged along by those who would direct society from the shadows. This last aspect of your OP seems to have almost gone entirely without comment, yet to my mind is the most important.

I think that here we have a solid example of the this or that nature of our American culture(at least this one) For a large part we seem to be rooted in that old Aristotelian right or wrong, good or evil, yes or no mindset. This meme has ridden human thought patterns for the last couple thousand years at least. I have read that this 0-1 pattern of behavior is set in our neural complexes as a survival mechanism. Makes sense to me but I don't know enough to be sure.

In any event, even here where so many consider themselves to be privy to a deeper understanding our situation remain entrenched in this "this or that, right or wrong" conundrum. If nothing else would make me happy around here it would be to see people understand that these points of view, 'this right and that wrong' both lead to long, involved emotionally complex memetic systems that are never going to be reconciled. Only by first becoming aware of this pattern can one begin to understand the fruitlessness of all these arguments. It seems to me that these patterns of thought hold true not only for capital punishment but again seem to me, to hold true across a large collection of issues we argue daily.

Though I like to tell myself, "Gee Terry, aren't you glad you have risen above that pattern of judgment", I still find that all to often I am still pulled into the " those guys are idiots and JUST DON"T GET IT' type of thinking. And the worst thing about this kind of thinking is the fertile ground it creates for those shadowy figures to plant in.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

Dear Graceful Marlin, Im sure that we agree that we can't escape human nature. But to me that's not a bad thing.
We are like petulant children, smashing our toys and forever throwing tantrums. But someday we will grow up, and learn how to behave in public. Maybe then aliens will deem us worthy of their company, and a saucer will land on the White House lawn.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 07:25 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: MarlinGrace

Dear Graceful Marlin, Im sure that we agree that we can't escape human nature. But to me that's not a bad thing.
We are like petulant children, smashing our toys and forever throwing tantrums. But someday we will grow up, and learn how to behave in public. Maybe then aliens will deem us worthy of their company, and a saucer will land on the White House lawn.


With over a millennia of existence will we ever escape human nature? This is where the question of creation versus evolution becomes very interesting. If we were created then we have the capacity to love and change and celebrate the good things in life in any timeline we want. On the other hand if we come from evolution with 1000's of years of violence and trauma, then I would say we 1000's more to go because apparently a world of laws isn't working in the way we treat each other.

We kill each other over land we can enjoy for only a hundred years on a million year planet, we have killed millions over gods that say killing each other is sinful. We have people starving on a world where farming is regulated to maintain prices, and let governments kill over ideologies. At times we seem lost in death and turmoil, but at the cost of 1000's more lives lost we will survive, grow, and hopefully learn something in the process. We are a odd species, on a personal level nothing has a greater capacity for love, as a people it escapes us on a regular basis because we put wealth and power ahead of lives. Yes very interesting indeed.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 08:59 PM
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Sometimes capital punishment is necessary. But that doesn't mean that every murderer deserves it. A singular crime of passion or anger usually means you just made a very big mistake. It doesn't really prove that you are a threat to society. But you should probably spend most of your life in jail just in case.

Then you have those that DO deserve it. The serial killers. The spree killers. The Cartel bosses. The terrorists. Those that will continue to do harm until they are stopped. They are a cancer. And if you let a cancer go untreated it only gets worse. Throwing these types of people in jail does not stop them from doing harm. They have to be cut out.

Does that mean they should suffer? No. I mean, this is exactly why the Guillotine was invented. It's over in less than a second with one clean cut. There is no prolonged pain. No botching the execution.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 09:43 PM
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originally posted by: allenidaho
Sometimes capital punishment is necessary. But that doesn't mean that every murderer deserves it. A singular crime of passion or anger usually means you just made a very big mistake. It doesn't really prove that you are a threat to society. But you should probably spend most of your life in jail just in case.

Then you have those that DO deserve it. The serial killers. The spree killers. The Cartel bosses. The terrorists. Those that will continue to do harm until they are stopped. They are a cancer. And if you let a cancer go untreated it only gets worse. Throwing these types of people in jail does not stop them from doing harm. They have to be cut out.

Does that mean they should suffer? No. I mean, this is exactly why the Guillotine was invented. It's over in less than a second with one clean cut. There is no prolonged pain. No botching the execution.

Until we make ANOTHER mistake and get the wrong person! And if its the right person, what about their family? do they deserve the horror of knowing their partner or maybe even father is going to be killed? What about their loss?
Capital punishment does too much damage to innocent people, we have to find another way.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

"We are a odd species, on a personal level nothing has a greater capacity for love, as a people it escapes us on a regular basis because we put wealth and power ahead of lives. Yes very interesting indeed."

When it comes to a greater capacity for love, I think that we humans simply have an intellectual understanding of it. Just consider the countless offspring over time who perished because their parents were not quite "loving" enough. The life that we see around us is here today, because their/our ancestors won the "love" sweepstakes.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: MarlinGrace

When it comes to a greater capacity for love, I think that we humans simply have an intellectual understanding of it. Just consider the countless offspring over time who perished because their parents were not quite "loving" enough. The life that we see around us is here today, because their/our ancestors won the "love" sweepstakes.


Oh no my friend a parents love is a emotional connection that at times becomes metaphysical. Many times a mother will know when something has happened to their child and be nowhere close. This is not intellectual, it is sacrificing your life for theirs if need be, it is about doing everything in your power so that they have a better life. In my case my folks were great, there was no sweepstakes, it by their sacrifice that I am where I am and who I am.

Of course there are parents who merely donors of the egg and sperm, but they parental love is much greater in number. I wonder how many mothers couldn't hurt a flea until it came to their children, then it's a bullet to the head dragging your bleeding body out of the house. Real moms are loving , caring, beautiful women, but if you mess with their kids... well we don't even want to go there. As it should be.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

"Many times a mother will know when something has happened to their child and be nowhere close. This is not intellectual, it is sacrificing your life for theirs if need be, it is about doing everything in your power so that they have a better life."

We humans wear two hats. One is the feral, instinctual primacy that turns a protective mother into the most dangerous within the animal kingdom. The other hat crowns a mind that can analyze and examine the ascendancy of human achievement.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:48 PM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: VoidHawk

Yet your main points were not capital punishment, but the emotional responses to that issue and the much larger one of the emotional reactions and how they may or may not be nudged along by those who would direct society from the shadows. This last aspect of your OP seems to have almost gone entirely without comment, yet to my mind is the most important.

I thank you for that

I struggle to make myself clear and yet you've understood perfectly. I was beginning to wonder if I'd failed


originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: VoidHawk
I have read that this 0-1 pattern of behavior is set in our neural complexes as a survival mechanism. Makes sense to me but I don't know enough to be sure.

I've listened to several talks by Professor Peter Gray. He studies the Hunter Gatherer societies (from whence we came). His research strongly suggests that the 0-1 pattern that you describe is not set, I doubt it even exists within such people.
His findings are that no person would dare to tell another person what they can or cant do, and they certainly do not hand out punishments. Issues are discussed quietly at night, with the children watching and listening. Often they will discuss issues for many days until they are resolved. During the day the children often act out what they observed thereby learning at a very young age the purpose of discussion. In the true Hunter Gatherer societies crime does not exist. If an issue cant be resolved they simply go their own way, or go join another group. True Hunter Gatherers live in peace, they do not fight or have wars, this is largely because they are not behaving in the 0 or 1 pattern.



originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: VoidHawk
Only by first becoming aware of this pattern can one begin to understand the fruitlessness of all these arguments.
I agree entirely, but it doesn't look very promising



originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: VoidHawk
It seems to me that these patterns of thought hold true not only for capital punishment but again seem to me, to hold true across a large collection of issues we argue daily.
Again I entirely agree.


originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: VoidHawk
Though I like to tell myself, "Gee Terry, aren't you glad you have risen above that pattern of judgment", I still find that all to often I am still pulled into the " those guys are idiots and JUST DON"T GET IT' type of thinking. And the worst thing about this kind of thinking is the fertile ground it creates for those shadowy figures to plant in.
I doubt there's many people who could truly claim they've risen above such behavior. One of the reasons I hang out in ats is because I can use it as a mirror and (hopefully) see my own failings.

Thanks for your response. I hope more people take the time to read it because you said much of what I was trying to say, but you said it better



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 08:23 AM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk

Until we make ANOTHER mistake and get the wrong person! And if its the right person, what about their family? do they deserve the horror of knowing their partner or maybe even father is going to be killed? What about their loss?
Capital punishment does too much damage to innocent people, we have to find another way.


Of course there could be mistakes. There are mistakes. The whole system was supposed to only convict those found guilty without a reasonable doubt. But unfortunately sometimes it just doesn't always work that way.

But you can not let the personal feelings of the murderer's family members stand in the way of justice. Their feelings are irrelevant. I feel it would be more of a kindness to execute the person and return the remains to the family so they can mourn, than to lock him away in a steel cage for the next 50 or 60 years, feed him, clothe him, provide him medical care, and slowly wait for him to die all while the American tax payer picks up the tab.

I would much prefer a quick, clean cut.



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk
YOU DO REALISE THAT BY THE TIME MOST OF YOU REACH RETIREMENT AGE TPTB WILL HAVE CONVINCED THE SHEEP THAT THOSE WHO ARE NO-LONGER PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY SHOULD BE TERMINATED!!
Have you thought about that?
Dont believe it? then please explain why they wouldn't do it!

You have made the above assertion in CAPS, so the onus is on you to provide evidence or detailed reasoning to support it.
Of course I don't believe it just because you say so, as such unthinking behaviour would be acting as a standard sheep, just like the folks you bleated about in your rant.

So, if you are not prepared to present your claim "BY THE TIME MOST OF YOU REACH RETIREMENT AGE TPTB WILL HAVE CONVINCED THE SHEEP THAT THOSE WHO ARE NO-LONGER PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY SHOULD BE TERMINATED!!" as merely something you believe, it is up to you to provide evidence before expecting me or anyone else to explain why we don't believe you.

I don't automatically believe any CAPS LOCK rant which has no specific supporting evidence to back it up.
I am also uninterested in explaining why 'they wouldn't do it' because you have presented nothing to explain why you are so convinced it will happen in the first place.

You make the assertion, you provide supporting evidence first...if you are not prepared to do so then I'll just dismiss it as angry ravings.
Oh, and you may not like it but I'm still very much 'on-topic' as YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SHOUTED IT IN THE OP.
edit on 25-7-2014 by grainofsand because: Typo



posted on Jul, 25 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Hey dude, you dont have to believe anything I say, nobody does, thats one of the reasons I chose the RANT forum!
Likewise I dont have to prove anything to you!
You can click the Back button you know and the thread will magically vanish and you can continue to be happy.
However, while you hear I'll explain a little, but you dont have to read it if its going to upset you!

Its my belief that probably within thirty or fourty years the people of this planet will be so brainwashed into thinking they exist only to serve their masters; and that the planet cannot possibly support non productive people. Therefore they will willingly accept termination!



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