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So was it Palestine or Isreal? Anyone know?

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posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 12:17 AM
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After all the conflict I have read about the history of Palestine and Isreal I still cannot decipher a correct answer about what it really was in the beginning before 1948 when Isreal was declared it's own state.

Its all very confusing. From what I can understand it was always Palestine until 1948 and Isrealites were a tribe of peoples from Samaria who created their own kingdom within Palestine?

Anyone that can set me straight please do so. I really want to know!




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 12:25 AM
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Neither the Philistines nor the Hebrews are native to the area. they both came in from outside.

Check out this site:

Palestine History



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:02 AM
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Montana-

That was a great information site...........thank you.

I have a little arguement going with the sister in law who says the holy land belongs to Isreal and its always been Isreal. I disagreed since I know it was Palestine until the UN carved out the Jewish state.

She says she only believes what the bible says. Im not sure the bible ever says anything about the area being soley Isreal, I thought is was referred to as Palestine and Jesus was born in Palestine,.Bethlehem. They don't seem to want to understand history but only what their church thinks they should know which may be incorrect.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:03 AM
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Thats a pretty good potted history of Israel.

However the use of the word "Palastine" to refer to the region throughout time is obviously false (even a quick read of the Old Testament would show that) and a reflection of the sites political inclination.
I have read that there is no relationship between the Philistines and the arabs currently identifying themselves as "palastinians".



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:14 AM
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Biblically, this is not only the beginning of the Israelites, but at the same time the beginning of their land ... the land of Canaan .. which we have been discussing as Palastine.

Gen 17:7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.
Gen 17:8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Gen 17:9 God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.
Gen 17:10 "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:15 AM
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Is there any evidence for the early state of israel? How did mythology become fact in the creation of Israel? The jews who inhabited it today would be more closer to the romans then the biblical Hebrews.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by Netchicken

I have read that there is no relationship between the Philistines and the arabs currently identifying themselves as "palastinians".


I don't imagine there would be, the arabian people came in after the Romans left if I remember it right. They came after both the Isrealites and the Philistines. Who both came after the Canaanites.


I thought is was referred to as Palestine and Jesus was born in Palestine,.Bethlehem.


This is incorrect. At the time of Jesus's birth, Bethlehem was in the Judean province of the Roman Empire. The area wasn't named Palestine till much later, and to my knowledge, there never has been a 'country' named Palestine.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:18 AM
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Aren't you playing with semantics. Palestine refers to a region and would not be like modern states. Regardless the colonialization of Palestine led to the "diaspora" of several million Palestinians.



[edit on 3-12-2004 by Justanotherperson]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:19 AM
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Here is a map of it...
www.fsmitha.com...

West Asia to 1200 BCE


... more on the topic here...
www.fsmitha.com...

[edit on 3-12-2004 by Netchicken]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:23 AM
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Maybe I should claim to be a Caananite, considering the precedents, I could claim the entire region as a promise from God.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by Justanotherperson
Aren't you playing with semantics. Palestine refers to a region and would not be like modern states. Regardless the colonialization of Palestine led to the "diaspora" of several million Palestinians.



No, we aren't. The opinion that there once was a country 'Palestine' is a wide held (but incorrect) belief. IMO that is what we are discussing.

But then maybe I'm not all the way awake anymore, either!



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:40 AM
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Only if you are jewish


Originally posted by Justanotherperson
I could claim the entire region as a promise from God.


I have been trying to find out more, because it is an interesting study.

Apparantly, Palestine was a sub area of Israel,
www.christiananswers.net...
The land promised to the Jews is huge, and reaches the Euphrates. The sub section that includes most of what we see as Israel today was called in latter times "Palestine".

It gets even smaller
www.hyperdictionary.com...
[n] a British mandate on the east coast of the Mediterranean; divided between Jordan and Israel in 1948.

Now its only a sub section of whats known as Israel, and i wonder if it refers here just to the West bank of the Jordan and the area around gaza (the original land of the Philistines).

However in modern terms it has taken on a political meaning that is not the same as its seeminlg historic geographical description.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:49 AM
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Once again. Outside of the bible or other religious sources. Is their any evidence for a country called Israel? Even the very people claiming to be the Hebrews look more Roman than the Hebrews. How did they become so white?

I imagine sun block is a major seller in Israel.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:51 AM
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It seems that Palestine is the shaded bits of Gaza and the West bank..

www.worldatlas.com...



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:54 AM
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They should have at least specified areas that contain oil as the promise land from God. Looks like they got shortchanged, although they did claim some nice beach. And Haifa was and still is a port for merchants and slave traders.



[edit on 3-12-2004 by Justanotherperson]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:58 AM
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Its easy to find if you use google...


Originally posted by Justanotherperson
Once again. Outside of the bible or other religious sources. Is their any evidence for a country called Israel?


Discovered in 1896 in Merneptah's mortuary temple in Thebes by Flinders Petrie, the stela is a poetic eulogy to pharaoh Merneptah, who ruled Egypt after Rameses the Great, ca. 1212-1202 BC. Of significance to Biblical studies is a short section at the end of the poem describing a campaign to Canaan by Merneptah in the first few years of his reign, ca. 1210 BC. One line mentions Israel: "Israel is laid waste, its seed is not." Here we have the earliest mention of Israel outside the Bible and the only mention of Israel in Egyptian records.




posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 02:00 AM
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There is an egyptian symbol for Israel? Seems like a stretch to me. Also considering the fact of the Pharoahs long reign in the region, you would think a "country" that borders it would be mentioned at least once or twice and not some translation of one sentence.

Also considering that it was a major trade route, it seems strange that there would be no mention of a "country" called Israel?



[edit on 3-12-2004 by Justanotherperson]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 02:08 AM
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www.bibleandscience.com...

The word "Israel" here is written in Egyptian with the determinative for people rather than land. This implies that Israel did not have a king or kingdom at this time. This would be the time of the judges. The text also implies that Israel was as strong as the other cities mentioned, and not just a small tribe. The south to north order of the three city-states may provide a general location for Israel. There is an interesting place named in Joshua 15:9 and 18:15, "well of waters of Nephtoah," that may be the Hebrew name of Merneptah.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 02:12 AM
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It mentions Caanan as being plundered, conquered. How did Caanan become in modern times a "country" called Israel?

And the link mentions it as a city and not a country. Is it a city or a country?



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:09 AM
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Canaan was the name of the region, biblically. BUT, every group of people from time immemorial who has been aware of the area has had a different name for it. Many people lumped the area in with the Phoenician (sp?) cities. Israel was well-known it its time, and was respected as a major trading partner by Tyre and Byblos.

There are indeed Egyptian references to Israel, as well as to the land known as Canaan, before Israel existed. It has NOT "always been" Israel.

The term Palestine I am less familiar with. It may be a corruption of Philistine, used by those who drew political boundaries at some point.

I have heard rumors that the mostly arab Palestinians are also related to the Mycenaeans (the theory being that the Mycenaeans are the Philistines). There is little proof of this, aside from some anecdotal similarities.

The most ancient name for the region, however, as far as I know, is Canaan.



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