Nearly Half of Britons Unaware of Auschwitz.

This is most likely similar in all nations. Most people honestly just aren't interested in school or history to care about details such as auschwitz, but most people would know about the holocaust so that's ok.

Man I wish they'd just let the whole costume thing rest, the guy was at a PRIVATE party at a PRIVATE residence and not all german officers or nazi's were evil a lot of them were just brainwashed and indoctrinated by the propaganda of the nazi's and hitlers amazing ability to convince people.

I can understand why some people are angry but it's a costume party FFS! I don't think anyone would of complained if Harry went as Josef Stalin.

thanks,
drfunk

I was hoping to fiind some new topics about the holocaust in general.

I was just watching the show about the ss on history channel, then I wanted to learn more so I just read through a lengthy but summarized timeline of nazi germany that I found on google.

You catch a half hour show about this, but theres so much detail thats left out. This was such a massive event it is really frightening to me!

The things that I found interesting, how other countries turned away boatloads of refugees, and how it seemed like russia allowed the invasion just long enough for the Nazi to "cleanse" the area
It almost seems like nazi germany was like the gopher.

And you think...the free world... U.S. for one lands on a continent and kills off the natives. slaughters animals
enslaves africans.



[edit on 16-1-2005 by Qlone]

Originally posted by Hannah
that's indeed strange. thaught they had a better knowledge of what was going on in these dark times, i mean as you already said, auschwitz is like a symbol of the human tragedy and should be well known. in germany you have WW2 almost every schoolyear in history lessons (at least in my school)..over and over, and of course its right, we have to prevent that something like this happens again.

in the 10th class, on our visit to england, we were friendly greeted with a "heil hitler" as soon as the younger ones figured out we were germans, really a sad experience because we were all between 16-18 years old and had obviosly not much to do with WW2...but that's life if your born in germany, you always carry this with you.

Thats sad to hear. I think its pretty pissy and un calledc for for the world to still punish Germany for the Nazis, even though most people who live there today werent even conceieved when it all went down. It is unfair to punish the whole nation and this generation because of sins of the past.

It was something that made me angry in Germany when I was stationed there, that guilt and shame seem to be drilled into German school children and Germans in general from the media to their education, that any sort of national pride is Streng Verboten. That Germans still suffer the burden of what happened 50 years ago.

Another thing is that Germany still has to pay heavy repairations to Israel, 60 years after the fact. The amount in repairations has well exceeded the amount of money stolen from Jews by Nazis, yet the Germans still are being penalized and whipped by new generations of Jews still acting on the bitterness of the elders. It is a very sad state of affairs. Jews who still hold Germany 60 years later and her children responsible for what happened then are hypocrites, in the books of the old testament and Jewish law, it clearly states children are not to be punished for the sins of the father.

I take big offense of the stigma against Germany, as not only have I lived there, but am half German myself.

Originally posted by Hannah
that's indeed strange. thaught they had a better knowledge of what was going on in these dark times, i mean as you already said, auschwitz is like a symbol of the human tragedy and should be well known. in germany you have WW2 almost every schoolyear in history lessons (at least in my school)..over and over, and of course its right, we have to prevent that something like this happens again.

in the 10th class, on our visit to england, we were friendly greeted with a "heil hitler" as soon as the younger ones figured out we were germans, really a sad experience because we were all between 16-18 years old and had obviosly not much to do with WW2...but that's life if your born in germany, you always carry this with you.

Thats sad to hear. I think its pretty pissy and un calledc for for the world to still punish Germany for the Nazis, even though most people who live there today werent even conceieved when it all went down. It is unfair to punish the whole nation and this generation because of sins of the past.

It was something that made me angry in Germany when I was stationed there, that guilt and shame seem to be drilled into German school children and Germans in general from the media to their education, that any sort of national pride is Streng Verboten. That Germans still suffer the burden of what happened 50 years ago.

Another thing is that Germany still has to pay heavy repairations to Israel, 60 years after the fact. The amount in repairations has well exceeded the amount of money stolen from Jews by Nazis, yet the Germans still are being penalized and whipped by new generations of Jews still acting on the bitterness of the elders. It is a very sad state of affairs. Jews who still hold Germany 60 years later and her children responsible for what happened then are hypocrites, in the books of the old testament and Jewish law, it clearly states children are not to be punished for the sins of the father.

I take big offense of the stigma against Germany, as not only have I lived there, but am half German myself.

that's awful to hear and Germany doesn't owe Israel a cent IMO.

thanks,


[edit on 16-1-2005 by drfunk]

if people don't know of those events then it's because they haven't been bothered to find out about their country's history. If you want knowledge then you've got to seek it out, you can't expect everything to fall nicely in your lap. I think the reason for it not being taught in schools is because it's a difficult subject to teach. If you think some Jews could be in the lesson, you could have people that are taught at home that's where your grandad died etc. So it could be upsetting for those who know what happened there, which is why it would be a difficult subject to teach. The best way to find out would be to read some books, ask you grandparents etc... i really don't think it's up to the school to teach those things.
If people don't know things then it's because they're too apathetic to know them. With most american's not being able to find Iraq on a map...Of course they can't...because most don't care where Iraq is. most of the people that didnt know what the auschwitz was, is because they think to themselves 'it happened so long ago, so im not bothered'. We forget how easy we've got it right now compared to times in the 2nd world war. im 18...i couldn't even begin to imagine what i'd feel like if i was called up to fight in Iraq.

drfunk......really?
Care to explain why West Germany should not be self-obligated to pay Israel (Jews) reparations?

As to the reparations that Germany is paying, there is a distinct difference between forced and mandated reparations and obligation and voluntary reparations. That despite initial agreements to pay a specified amount, other factors come into play and should be looked into as to why Germany is still paying reparations. Incidentally, if Germany has felt that they have payed enough reparations, there are legal recourses that can be pursued. As such, why hasn't Germany pursued such legal recourse? I think the reason is self-evident.




seekerof

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
drfunk......really?
Care to explain why West Germany should not be self-obligated to pay Israel (Jews) reparations?

As to the reparations that Germany is paying, there is a distinct difference between forced and mandated reparations and obligation and voluntary reparations. That despite initiail agreements to pay a specified amount, other factors come into play and should be looked into as to why Germany is still paying reparations. Incidentally, if Germany has felt that they have payed enough reparations, there are legal courses that can be pursued. As such, why hasn't Germany pursued such legal recourse? I think the reason is self-evident.




seekerof

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Seekerof]

Of course the reason is self evident: pressure and guilt mongering. Guilt blackmail, those sorts of things. Im sure if pressure and a still low opinion and the lightning quickness of certain people to continue to rub Germanys nose in the holocaust, Germany would have stopped repairations once they had sufficently paid them out.

Believe me, it is not like Germany has any great fondness and desire to continue to send millions of dollars every year to help support Israel, a country which, having a stable first rate economy, no longer needs.

The reasons why Germany keeps paying Israel money are pretty self evident to anyone who can see the subtle yet oh so real pressure and guilt mongeriong put on the country.

Now.......lets talk about some repairations from Israel to the Palestinians, and vise versa, though I am sure Israel would be owing alot more.

Oh yeah, and i want repairations from Israel for the USS Liberty, thank you.

as posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Of course the reason is self evident: pressure and guilt mongering.

Typical rhetoric, Skadi_the_Evil_Elf.
Again, if Germany feels that they have payed enough reparations, then there is legal recourse. Why have they not taken that legal recourse?

Enlighten me and save the rhetoric.



seekerof

as posted by Skadi_The_Evil_Elf
Oh yeah, and i want repairations from Israel for the USS Liberty, thank you.

Excuse me?
Where you been reading your information from? This has been covered before within ATS.
Israel payed reparations to the family members.
Israel paid reparations for the Liberty incident



seekerof

Simple really. The State of Israel did not exist till 1948 and West Germany did not exist until 1949. The Holocaust was an event that happened in Europe and was precursor to the existence of both states, therefore I feel that Israel has no grounds on which to claim any sort of repairations or compensation from West Germany because the state of Israel did not even exist until a later period.

thanks,
drfunk

[edit on 16-1-2005 by drfunk]

The reparation payments can't be that bad... at least when compared to what France and Britian made them pay after WW1. The payments were so high they sent Germany bankrupt and that did not happen after WW2. Considering that making Germany pay too much after WW1 was one of the major reasons for WW2 i doubt anyone would do it again. They have given germany the time needed to pay it and have not bled the country dry, unlike WW1 were France and Britian made them pay more than they could afford.

I think them paying reperations is a good thing because it shows they are sorry for what they did. I wish our government would pay Aboriginal Australians major reperations (not so much we go broke but a significant amount) because the lands we stole from them are filled with riches and most of them are so poor. It's just not right.

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Trent]

Originally posted by drfunk
Simple really. The State of Israel did not exist till 1948 and West Germany did not exist until 1949. The Holocaust was an event that happened in Europe and was precursor to the existence of both states, therefore I feel that Israel has no grounds on which to claim any sort of repairations or compensation from West Germany because the state of Israel did not even exist until a later period.

Understandable that you would see it that way, but because the nation of Israel did not exist, does not, in no way, imply that the Jews and those that survived the Holocaust and other persecutions were not obligated to recieve reparations. Also, a great majority of those who did survive, went to Israel. This is no different than when Israel attacked the U.S.S. Liberty, in that, Israel payed reparations to both the U.S. government and to the family members.

Besides, in reality, your point is a non-point, because West Germany did not agree to the obligate itself to pay reparations till 1953. As you have pointed out, Israel was recognized as a nation in 1948.





seekerof

[edit on 16-1-2005 by Seekerof]

your points are true and yes west germany did obligate itself. However my belief is that West Germany doesn't owe Israel jack (from my points stated earlier), and if they were to pay someone, it would be the survivors only and not giving money and submarines and all that junk to a state.

thanks,
drfunk

Again, your point is noted.
The problem is that Germany obligated itself to pay reparations to the nation of Israel and to individuals that survived the Holocaust.

As I have mentioned twice already, if Germany feels that they have payed enough reparations to the nation of Israel, why have they not sought legal recourse to end said continued payments of reparations? It is obvious that there are some who think that germany has payed enough. That maybe even the German government feels likewise, but legal recourse is there and is available. That being said, it appears that Germany has not sought to use such legal recourse.




seekerof