Religion placates the masses

a reply to: BlueMule
It wouldn't

originally posted by: XxRagingxPandaxX
Do you think organized religion placates the masses?

The answer really depends on how you define the word "religion".

The word has been twisted over time to mean something completely different to everyone.

Most confuse Religion with God.

They are OPPOSITES.

Satan is the author of religion, NOT God.

When I think of the word, I think of mind control.

Religion is a HUGE mind control tool designed to steer you away from the truth.

There's a hidden agenda behind religion to destroy spirituality.

The goal is to stand between humanity and all truth about ourselves and the true God.

God and religion are completely separate entities that get intertwined together by man.

Satan is using Religion to be LIKE God and cause people to hate God.

All religion does is drive people AWAY from God, this is Satan's real agenda.

Study the TRUE origins of false religions and learn who is actually behind the facade.

originally posted by: UnknownUsr
Most people do not believe in God because either some one has pushed religion in their face, has given a false presentation of who God really is, or anything regarding a persons bias, or opinion. Don't base your relationship with God off of what you have heard, experience it for yourself. Religion was made to divide and cause animosity. Your mind set automatically shifts. The moment you hear the name "God" you already have a false image portrayed!

"Every major religion in the world has been manufactured or infiltrated by the Illuminati to enslave and brainwash society. In essence, religion was the first form of mind control." Link

What if I were to tell you, that there is a vast Satanic conspiracy to deceive the masses of every society on earth? What if I were to tell you that the top leaders of the world’s religions were in league with the Devil? Would you think I’m crazy? I would! Yet, the truth is stranger than fiction! You have been lied to my friend. Few people in the world today are aware of just how much Satan has infiltrated and is behind ALL false religion.
Source

"Today the religions of the world remain a major tool of the Illuminati agenda." Link

"What if there were people within the various Churches of God who covertly were guiding the members to slowly accept new ideas which are alien to the true faith and who were dedicated to destroying that faith at all costs?"

JESUIT-JEDI MINDTRICKS

Originally posted by DumbTopSecretWriters
The Illuminati have an agenda to make people intolerant to religion, and it is constantly being mocked in the media. People are being conditioned using clever psychological techniques into believing that religion is nothing more than fables of the ancients. Destroying the belief in God is their top priority. They want to make religion irrelevant by discouraging people to study it because the deeper someone looks into religions, the more they see the truth behind them which ultimately reveals more about the Illuminati’s purpose and goals. Do not fall prey to such conditioning. If you already have, then you need your bhoota slapped with a chappal to sort you out.

originally posted by: XxRagingxPandaxX
a reply to: BlueMule
It wouldn't

And thus your argument, as understandable as it is, is defeated.

a reply to: BlueMule
You know that a science fiction convention and an institution of religious worship are'nt the same thing, right?

originally posted by: XxRagingxPandaxX
a reply to: BlueMule
You know that a science fiction convention and an institution of religious worship are'nt the same thing, right?

It's understandable that you would say that. Most people would. But most people are not experts in comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism. Most people aren't comparativists, and so most people are not privvy to the kind of scholarship that prevents one from having too narrow, too limited, too ethnocentric an understanding of religion. So most people are not qualified to compare space-age religions to bronze-age religions.

You'll change your tune if you read these books.

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a reply to: BlueMule
If the convention stated that they knew greater existential truths and that everything is exactly how is should be then yes, being a treckie would also placate the masses.

Religion allows the rich to justify their affluence. And the poor to justify why the rich are exploiting them. Don't just take my word for it. Would you like evidence? It starts near the beginning of recorded history and leads up without lapse to modern day. How can you deny all of recorded history? Royal families of Europe, Pharos of Egypt, Aztec kings, Incan kings, myan kings, emporers of japan, dynasties of china, Russian Tsars, the list is almost endless. All of these people believed they were appointed by a static greater cosmic order. Would you like more examples?

a reply to: XxRagingxPandaxX

A Star Trek convention doesn't have to state such things. The episodes do.

Religion does not allow the rich to justify their affluence. It invites them to learn that their power and wealth is seasonal, cyclical. Just like the constellations. Their power will wane, and they are invited to find true wealth within - the 'pearl of great price'. Some accept the invitation, some don't.

The poor are also invited to find true wealth within. The God within. The secret fire.

Ancient kings and their court were often sacrificed when the particular astrological cycle they represented came to an end. Ancient cultures pantomimed the stars and planets, which was the cosmic order you keep referring to, and the stars are always changing. While some rise others fall. When the season of the stars and planets of a King is gone, so is the King. Being an ancient king was often a double-edged sword. Their fate was tied to their stars and planets.

a reply to: BlueMule
Let's go down a checklist shall we? We'll start with the entire continent of Europe(I'll go by continents with you). Did the royal family espouse that they were appointed to the throne by a diety? Were the peasants who they exploited and subjugated to torture and death told that to go against the agregous acts of the royal family was to go against god almighty himself? Did all of this placate the peasants for many hundreds of years?

a reply to: XxRagingxPandaxX

I could go down a checklist of abusive husbands, but it wouldn't prove that marriage inevitably placates abused wives and justifies abusive asshats.

When you say religion, you are talking about the entirety of world religion and myth going back tens of thousands of years to primordial shamanism. Without shamans in our tribes the world over, humanity wouldn't have survived to enable this conversation. Without religion, you wouldn't be here to misunderstand religion.

How much do you know about shamanism, anyway? Just what you see in the movies?

You seem to think that the model of religion we should be focusing on is that of a relatively modern corrupt politician and an abused populace. But considering the width and depth of religion itself, a more accurate model would be that of a shamanic healer and his or her tribe.

Humanity has a short, self-serving memory.

Yeah, I have a brother who used to deal dope, and now he is an ordained minister / preacher at a church.

Religion, the opiate of the masses, and money ain't for nothing and the chicks are free.

Rock-n-Frickin Roll!!!!.

WooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooHooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

a reply to: BlueMule
We just covered one continent. Would you like me to move on to the next? I'll go through six with you in great depth and detail. If you're willing to be receptive, our next stop is Asia. And to squelch your silly argument about older religion, what about the first recorded civilization on the planet, Sumeria? Their royal lineage claimed that kingship was given to them by the gods. The oldest civilization ever confirmed thought that.

a reply to: XxRagingxPandaxX

You seem to think that winning our little debate is a matter of giving enough examples. But I think it's a matter of showing that your understanding of religion is superior to mine.

Religion didn't start with recorded history. It streches back into the farthest mists of time. For the vast majority of our time on this planet, religion was the province of shamans. In order to understand religion, one must understand the shaman, because all our modern religions evolved from there. If you don't understand where religion was, you can't understand where it's going.

We are born into a scientific culture. Being born and raised in a scientific culture does not bestow an understanding of science on people. People still need scientific education. By the same token, being born and raised in a culture with religion everywhere does not bestow an understanding of religion. People still need religious education. And I'm not talking about Sunday school or seminary school.

Look, I've said it before. I get where you are coming from. I respect your position. I think your heart is in the right place - you are angry about social injustice and corrupt leaders. So am I. You want people to do more about it, and you think religion is standing in the way. But that doesn't mean your understanding of religion is accurate. Religion isn't to blame.

Religion is hard-wired into our psyche. You can't get rid of it. Our capacity to think symbolically, to create art, to have language, to better ourselves, is tied to our capacity for religion. The very notion of heroes, the 'hero journey', is rooted in mythological thinking. Agriculture, math, music, law, philosophy, medicine. All are religious in origin. Take the good with the bad.

Religion is changing, evolving, as it has been for ages. It changes as culture changes. But all religion shares a common heritage.

"No one, as far as I know, has yet tried to compose into a single picture the new perspectives that have been opened in the fields of comparative symbolism, religion, mythology, and philosophy by the scholarship of recent years.

The richly rewarded archaeological researches of the past few decades; astonishing clarifications, simplifications, and coordinations achieved by intensive studies in the spheres of philology, ethnology, philosophy, art history, folklore, and religion; fresh insights in psychological research; and the many priceless contributions to our science by the scholars, monks, and literary men of Asia, have combined to suggest a new image of the fundamental unity of the spiritual history of mankind.

Without straining beyond the treasuries of evidence already on hand in these widely scattered departments of our subject, therefore, but simply gathering from them the membra disjuncta of a unitary mythological science, I attempt in the following pages the first sketch of a natural history of the gods and heroes, such as in its final form should include in its purview all divine beings--not regarding any as sacrosanct or beyond its scientific domain.

For, as in the visible world of the vegetable and animal kingdoms, so also in the visionary world of the gods: there has been a history, an evolution, a series of mutations, governed by laws; and to show forth such laws is the proper aim of science." -Joseph Campbell

For the vast majority of human history, religion was very different from what it is today. Religion was the business of shamans, not priests and theologians. Do you understand the difference between a shaman and a priest? If one is going to make blanket statements about religion, then one had better understand it ALL.

And that means understanding the religious experience, for starters.

"One problem with atheism as a category of thought, is that it seems more or less synonymous with not being interested in what someone like the Buddha or Jesus may have actually experienced. In fact, many atheists reject such experiences out of hand, as either impossible, or if possible, not worth wanting. Another common mistake is to imagine that such experiences are necessarily equivalent to states of mind with which many of us are already familiar—the feeling of scientific awe, or ordinary states of aesthetic appreciation, artistic inspiration, etc.

So, apart from just commending these phenomena to your attention, I’d like to point out that, as atheists, our neglect of this area of human experience puts us at a rhetorical disadvantage. Because millions of people have had these experiences, and many millions more have had glimmers of them, and we, as atheists, ignore such phenomena, almost in principle, because of their religious associations—and yet these experiences often constitute the most important and transformative moments in a person’s life. Not recognizing that such experiences are possible or important can make us appear less wise even than our craziest religious opponents." -Sam Harris

I think I've won our debate many times over. Giving me a checklist of examples won't change my mind about that. But, you can show me that you understand the primordial roots of religion, and you can show me that you understand the laws that govern the evolution of religion, and you can show me that you understand the religious experience.

a reply to: BlueMule
First off, I do not and never claimed to know more about religion than you, or anyone else. I do actually have a solid understanding of shamanism contrary to your demeaning remark about "the movies." Terrence Mcenna, an absolutely wonderful human being and great intellect got me started on my study of shamanistic traditions. It's a very ancient and fascinating study. You are also correct when you say that shamanism precedes organized religion, in fact I think all organized religion has it's roots in psychedelics, even the impetus for cave art is largely due to psycodelic compounds. However, as I stated in my OP and later in the thread, my contention is with organized religion. It takes civilization to have organized religion. My contention is not with shamans. My contention is with organized religion which is only found where civilization exists. Of course out of the 100,000 years of human existence it is a very short time, civilization is a small part of human existence. However, what held these civilizations together was organized religion. Religion is suspiciously auspicious to social injustice as it says eveything is how it should be. Rest knowing you know more about religion than me my friend, that is not my focus. My interest lies in the inherently fallacious premise of organized religion and the social injustice it both instigates and facilitates.

I think we are both intelligent and knowledgable people. Let's just agree to disagree.

a reply to: XxRagingxPandaxX

But all religion is organized. It's just a matter of degree.

Religion serves four functions for a society, whether that society is a small tribe in the Amazon or whether its an industrial society doesn't matter.

1. The metaphysical function
2. The cosmological function
3. The sociological function
4. The psychological function

As a religion nears the end of its life-cycle, it may become dysfunctional. One or more of those functions goes out of whack. Then a new religion comes along, culture advances, religion evolves, and the cycle continues.

If a religion is abused by a leader, then the sociological function is or was out of whack.

Simply saying that an ancient king claimed to be ruling by divine right does not show that the sociological function of that particular mythology is out of whack.

Our dominant religion, Christianity, has had its cosmological function taken by science. Because of science, all of its functions are out of whack, imbalanced. It has become dysfunctional. Your beef is not with organized religion. It's with dysfunctional religion.

a reply to: BlueMule

No. My beef is with organized religion, not dysfunctional religions. Because they tell the masses that everything is how it should be, which placates the masses.

a reply to: XxRagingxPandaxX

You could try letting the guy with the superior understanding of religion be the judge of that. Or change your name to stubborn panda? :p

Whether you are willing to recognize it or not, your beef is with dysfunctional religion. Are all pandas so stubborn, or just you?



Anyway, I think I'm done here. Hope you learned something about religion.

a reply to: BlueMule
I think the saying is "stubborn as a mule" 😄

I very well may be wrong who knows. I always reserve the right to change my mind, one day we very may well agree.

originally posted by: XxRagingxPandaxX
a reply to: BlueMule

No. My beef is with organized religion, not dysfunctional religions. Because they tell the masses that everything is how it should be, which placates the masses.

"there are two sides to everything (yin/yang) so just relax with injustice for now (until it changes to the other 'side' - yang/light)." - Eastern Religious Beliefs


"satan (darkness) runs the world so just relax with injustice for now (until judgment day where it will be fixed to the other 'side' - god/light)." - Western Religious Beliefs

Whether you subscribed to The Eastern View or The Western View, it is still telling you to Wait, Wait, Wait, and allow bad things to keep happening since this is the way the world is supposed to be until it 'changes' by itself without your effort.

People who believe that the golden rule: 'Treat others as you'd like to be treated' actually comes from God but are also allowing injustice to happen 'waiting' for God to fix it needs to remember something...

Letting others be treated unfairly is NOT treating others as you'd like to be treated,
and if you are not speaking up for equality/justice then you are on the side of injustice.

you can either Stay (in injustice) or Move (with justice), if you do not move then automatically you are Staying.

Equality and Freedom for ALL.

Peace