Can I open fire on a "open carry" person if they get too close to lining me up?

You need to back up that :"all mass shooters at one time were open carry guys" Where did that come from? Show me where the mass shooters were open carry guys who crossed the line...fear mongering at it's finest.







a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

originally posted by: openyourmind1262
Are you frightened and intimidated by Police Officers close to you with their firearms in holsters? If no you should be, their more likely to shoot you than the open carry guy. Just look at the internet and all the police shootings....they out weigh all others by a ton.

a reply to: Unity_99

The threat is real. Fear isn't.

Never call the police. Yes they are deadly and belligerent. Different threat, different rules. I try to avoid being anywhere near police. They have any number of weapons they can legally assault you with.

a reply to: openyourmind1262

I'm just using plain logic. They carried the weapon openly for some period of time before pulling the trigger. It could be for a matter of seconds or minutes.

That is the point. There isn't a lot of time for a good guy to make a threat assessment.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Seriously?! If you have to ask such a question, I fear you do not have the proper conceal training, if one at all.

There is two rules to which to answer for if you ever have to pull a gun.

Anymore of a psychological explaintion of such idea involved pre mediated thought to kill/shoot.

This has to be the worst gun related thread I have ever read. Whoo-hoo. Sounds to me that shooting someone involves a thrill to you?


With your thought, that's how cops feel "in the moment". Maybe you should carry a taser instead.

With your thought, that's how cops feel "in the moment". Maybe you should carry a taser instead.

a reply to: AK907ICECOLD

Not a bad idea. But I love the 2nd amendment too much to abdicate any rights.

They also did their shootings in gun free zones.
Do you feel safe in a gun free zone? I don't feel safer in Chicago because your not supposed to have a gun.

in my state, GA. you have to have a permit to OPEN CARRY, unless in your yard. If you have a CCP, then you SHOULD KNOW the law and the rules of engagment...Period.

Much of your story/theroy does not hold water.
You would not shoot unless 1000% sure he is going to kill. and of course call 911 first.

DMV folks are officers of the law and I am sure one of them would/should carry.

What point are you trying to make here. common sense should rule unless the CCP person has none then they should not have a CCP.
Do you in fact have a CCP.. I do. Would I be at high alert.. of course but to draw on him..nope. Not unless I had no other choice.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
Say for example, I'm in line at DMV and an "open carry person" shows up with a long gun.

Right away I have to devote all my attention to that person. If the person decides to start shooting I'll have less than a second to react and protect my loved ones. Anyway, I have to abandon whatever I was doing because I can't take my eyes off this potential threat.

While I'm focused and on alert I put my hand on my concealed weapon, which I'm carrying legally as one of the "good guys". The person doesn't look threatening, but why would they have a rifle in DMV? Why is this person smirking? That's odd. I think he's got a spare clip in his front pocket. Or something...

Now I've got tunnel vision. WTF! he's grasping the rifle with his hands. That's not normal. Here comes the barrel swinging around in my direction.

I'm out of time on this one so I do what any good guy must do --empty my 10 rounds into his over sized torso.

Self defense and a tragic loss of life ---not mine though --woo hoo!
Clean up on isle 12 woo hoo!

You would be viewed like most sheeple. Ignorant of the law. As long as he isn't brandishing it in a threatening manner it is fine.
Firepiston

Here in AZ you cant bring weapons into Government buildings and bars. Other than that its not uncommon to see somebody open carrying long rifles and handguns. But now there are new laws here to where anybody can conceal carry permit or not. So its less common to see long guns more common to catch a glimpse of a pistol in a wasteband.

In your situation if he just walked in with one i wouldnt consider that a threat. If he had his hand on it and was looking right at me I would be more alarmed and probably put my hand on my .40 and look right back. If he started shooting i would unload on him. Just use common sense. IDK how well shooting a guy who is open carrying and not threatening anybody will hold up in court.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I have a CCW permit and am very pro-2A, but these nincompoops who are constantly "testing" the law are complete idiots. Long guns are not what I would consider personal protection arms, they are more for waging battle. They are unwieldy at best, and all these jackholes do is rile people up and distract the cops from doing their jobs. That's not to say people shouldn't own them - they SHOULD own them, IMO.

Having said that, open-carrying sidearms should not warrant a second glance - from anyone - if it is legal to do so in that state.

"Open carry" normally means carrying a pistol in a holster in plain sight, just like a normal police officer. I suppose you could stretch the definition to someone "carrying" a rifle, but frankly, that's a stretch you just conveniently use for your scenario. One who carries a rifle has no choice but to handle it, and some people erroneously believe "handling" it is "brandishing" it.

But yes, if he did act in a menacing manner and looked like he was about to use a weapon, you could defend yourself or others. Bear in mind that the onus will be upon you to prove self-defense. If some other folks in the DMV saw the incident differently, they would be allowed to testify. Perhaps you were just trigger happy and over-reacted. The dead man's family would also testify as to his reliability as a family man and the fact that he was on his way to the gun store and just didn't want to leave the rifle in the car for fear it would be stolen. In fact, it was a valuable antique he inherited from his great grandfather and was not in firing condition nor did it have any ammunition. You mistook the "clip" (cough) in his pocket for the fact that he was glad to see the woman in front of him. The fact that you shot him 10 times is also highly suspect. You can fire to "stop the threat," so as soon as he lost control of his rifle after the first shot you should have stopped firing. You shouldn't need more than three shots anyway, two to center mass and one to the head. If you are not accurate enough to do that, you shouldn't be carrying.

In other words, you better damn well be sure you made the right decision. Also, you already broke the law because the DMV is a "gun free zone" and you snuck one in. All this is fodder for a prosecutor, and it aso goes to show that being a "good guy," as you put it, can be terribly difficult in the face of anti-gunners who would rather see you dead than defend yourself.

You've made several serious mistakes. First, you illegally carried into a gun free zone. Second, you shot the guy 10 times, which is serious overkill and questions your motives. Third, you weren't really sure this guy was a threat. Your own language shows you aren't really that familiar with firearms or their function. So best case you've got a year worth of publicity for yourself, court suits from the family for unlawful death, and potential prosecution for illegal carrying.

A couple of questions. First, why the "over size torso"? Is that a little value judgment thrown in for good measure to make your rifle toting person seem a little more evil? And why the "Woo hoo clean up on aisle 12" stuff. One would think you aren't really serious. Did you think that was funny and everyone would laugh with you?

Like a lot of people who set up speculative scenarios so they think they can prove a point, you didn't really do a very good job here. You set yourself up for a trip to prison. Congrats.

a reply to: schuyler

speculative scenarios are useful. They provoke thinking prior to the actual experience. Training the mind to make more accurate decisions --for those auditioning for the role of "good guy".

I swear I didn't watch this before I posed the thought experiment. It makes some good points though.
Open carry etiquette

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: Moresby

I'm not familiar with his work. Is he also one of the good guys?

It read like a passage from one of "The Executioner" books which he wrote.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
Say for example, I'm in line at DMV and an "open carry person" shows up with a long gun.

Right away I have to devote all my attention to that person. If the person decides to start shooting I'll have less than a second to react and protect my loved ones. Anyway, I have to abandon whatever I was doing because I can't take my eyes off this potential threat.

While I'm focused and on alert I put my hand on my concealed weapon, which I'm carrying legally as one of the "good guys". The person doesn't look threatening, but why would they have a rifle in DMV? Why is this person smirking? That's odd. I think he's got a spare clip in his front pocket. Or something...

Now I've got tunnel vision. WTF! he's grasping the rifle with his hands. That's not normal. Here comes the barrel swinging around in my direction.

I'm out of time on this one so I do what any good guy must do --empty my 10 rounds into his over sized torso.

Self defense and a tragic loss of life ---not mine though --woo hoo!
Clean up on isle 12 woo hoo!

You didn't have to write all of that to make a point and share your opinion.

You could have avoided the whole exercise in creative writing/propaganda to try and make a point, and instead just honestly said, "Hey guys, here's my thread about how I am AGAINST open carry. The reason I'm against it is because I get scared around rifles in public areas."

That would suffice.



For those of us who live in areas which permit open carry, we are used to seeing weapons...and we don't feel threatened by them, instead, we feel SAFE. Want to know why? Because a criminal won't be walking calmly into the DMV with a rifle, and standing there to make a point. He will enter and begin shooting, before you ever even see the gun.

A criminal won't "open carry". They will conceal their weapon. If you walk into a store and see one or more people open carrying a fire arm....rest assured....they are law abiding citizens, and aren't out to get you.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I don't think you are being paranoid, that is totaly reasonable.

Worst case scenario CAN happen, and it can happen to YOU.

The second you let your guard down is usually when SHTF.

So why not be concerned when your instincts tell you something is potentially lethal to you or yours?

Good on you. Im pro gun, but i hate these open carry demonstrations with huge guns, what is the point other than to intimidate and scare people?!

originally posted by: supermarket2012

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
Say for example, I'm in line at DMV and an "open carry person" shows up with a long gun.

Right away I have to devote all my attention to that person. If the person decides to start shooting I'll have less than a second to react and protect my loved ones. Anyway, I have to abandon whatever I was doing because I can't take my eyes off this potential threat.

While I'm focused and on alert I put my hand on my concealed weapon, which I'm carrying legally as one of the "good guys". The person doesn't look threatening, but why would they have a rifle in DMV? Why is this person smirking? That's odd. I think he's got a spare clip in his front pocket. Or something...

Now I've got tunnel vision. WTF! he's grasping the rifle with his hands. That's not normal. Here comes the barrel swinging around in my direction.

I'm out of time on this one so I do what any good guy must do --empty my 10 rounds into his over sized torso.

Self defense and a tragic loss of life ---not mine though --woo hoo!
Clean up on isle 12 woo hoo!

You didn't have to write all of that to make a point and share your opinion.

You could have avoided the whole exercise in creative writing/propaganda to try and make a point, and instead just honestly said, "Hey guys, here's my thread about how I am AGAINST open carry. The reason I'm against it is because I get scared around rifles in public areas."

That would suffice.



For those of us who live in areas which permit open carry, we are used to seeing weapons...and we don't feel threatened by them, instead, we feel SAFE. Want to know why? Because a criminal won't be walking calmly into the DMV with a rifle, and standing there to make a point. He will enter and begin shooting, before you ever even see the gun.

A criminal won't "open carry". They will conceal their weapon. If you walk into a store and see one or more people open carrying a fire arm....rest assured....they are law abiding citizens, and aren't out to get you.

I'm most interested in the thought experiment and how different people interpret and work through the scenario. I don't feel safer in the presence of lethal weapons that are in the hands of other people. I don't read minds, so I must focus intensely on the possible threats. A rifle in line at a store or McDonald's isn't normal. In Yemen maybe? I believe I could convince a jury of peers that I perceived a mortal threat and responded accordingly in a broad range of scenarios.

Power fetish is damn ugly, don't you think?

I believe this scenario or something similar will occur. It's just a matter of time.

originally posted by: Antipathy17

originally posted by: Unity_99
I don't believe in open carry on your person, not sure about in your vehicle if there is no children on board. But open carry would be frightening and intimidating.

Why is it frightening and intimidating? Two major ideas stick out to me. Publicized gun violence (even though in most area's of the states its on decline) and Publicized fear. If we had more men and women walking around with guns and not killing people, like most people don't do; this would be another situation all together.

I don't want to walk around with people carryig their guns,or swords on them, like world of warcraft always afraid they might start shooting

I do believe in adults being armed, and well trained

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass
You seem to just be looking for a reason to shoot someone and you have referred to yourself as the "good guy" several times in this thread. The combination of those 2 things suggests to me that you should perhaps visit a professional,lay down on his couch and talk to him about it.

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass
You seem to just be looking for a reason to shoot someone and you have referred to yourself as the "good guy" several times in this thread. The combination of those 2 things suggests to me that you should perhaps visit a professional,lay down on his couch and talk to him about it.

His appointment can be right after the guy that thinks he needs to carry a long gun around all the time. Anyone that feels so threatened that they need to carry a rifle with them wherever they go obviously has mental issues.

You should read how many Sheriff's and law enforcement feel about open carry. I remember one sheriff here in N.C. that said he was'nt worried about the guy standing there with a gun in a holster strapped to his hip, he was more worried about the group of guys over there with their shirts untucked. He said he knew what the Open carry guy is doing, he has no idea what the other group may pull out. A whole lot of LE support open carry. Here, where I live I get support from local LE not suppression.

Ive dealt with the '"folks who feel scared or intimidated" Ive had the law called. Each and every instance I was allowed to continue what it was I was doing. Know the law, stay within the law, stay within your legal rights, respect the rights of others to be offended and all is good. If I see a store that states "no weapons" i dont enter into it. If I do firearm is secured in the truck. Most of the time they that dont allow, simply dont get my business. Within my rights & respecting yours.






a reply to: InverseLookingGlass