John Kerry tells fugitive Edward Snowden to 'man up' - BBC

originally posted by: RickinVa
Eddie Snowden should man up.

Man up.

Come back and face the firing squad you deserve.

Snowden did man up to the corrupt NSA. He does deserve a ticker tape parade. Save the firing squad for Clapper and Alexander.

originally posted by: darkbake


I think that what Snowden did is what he had to do, what a real Patriot would have done in his situation - I think that John Kerry comes across as a bumbling idiot who is trying to save face.

Screw Snowden, he did it all wrong and deserves what he gets....

On the other hand, when Kerry man's up to his self created war hero label that a is slap in the face to our real heroes then I guess he can tell Snowden to man up too....

Let John Kerry "Man Up" about the dirty deeds of our government FIRST!

I say Snowden Man Upped with truth.........

When are our poli-TIC-ians going to become real men. Real men don't hide behind lies.

a reply to: darkbake
I guess I just keep somehow failing to see where Snowden said anything that wasn't true, or somehow acted unpatriotic.
Maybe ATS and the like could organize a march to man up with him.
We could march him right up to the capital.
Now THAT i would proudly take front lines in.

Yknow, it's not a "love it or leave it" issue with this country.
I love it, i hate it, i'm not gonna trade one apartment with roaches for the rats in the next.
We all KNOW they do this type of thing, no surprise to the few of us with common sense, but it's the fact that they lie to us about it that makes it hard to rally 'round the flag sometimes.

a reply to: darkbake

Kerry has made himself look like an idiot. The NSA broke the law so they should man up and admit it. Snowden done his duty as a citizen by exposing a crime against the American people. It is Snowden who should be bringing the NSA to court and they should man up and come to court with their defence lawyers.

This Kerry statement is designed for the deaf and blind people that swallow the Government rhetoric without thinking. It's the same people that usually follow the line " they hate us for our freedoms".

Equally ludicrous as "he is a traitor" line...

It's in times like these that I'm painfully aware...we are a civilization of an advanced monkeys, some of which surfaced in this thread. Insult intended.

a reply to: darkbake

This is amazing.

Not what that hypocritical idiot Kerry said, but that anyone gives the slightest credence to anything that comes out of his mouth.

a reply to: paleorchid13

You are very right, I am sure that if the US get their hands on Snowden, they will used the patriot act and all the new anti espionage and terrorist legislation to make and example of him and we many even get to see the first death by treason in modern days.

The worst traitors in any nation is government itself, specially when is overtaken by special interest with agendas.

I'm so sick of these windbag politicians trying to talk like a tuffguy.

Kerry is one of the more pompous and blustery hypocrites we currently have in office. And to make it worse (sorry ATS) I am sad to admit I actually voted for his pitiful ass.... way back when I thought "lesser of 2 evils" was logical. You will hopefully be glad to hear I now opt out of the 2 party system and primarily vote independent after researching what candidates track records/policies are.

I'm still not exactly sure what to think about Snowden (especially after reading the Pando article), but I don't think clown-shoes Kerry has any business commenting about Ed's "manly-ness".

Just ridiculous!

a reply to: darkbake

Thanks for bringing this. Kerry tells Snowden to "Man up".

Pssst… Kerry, he already did. Doesn't that just burn you up?

Kerry continues to destroy any prior reputation he may have had.

The more the guy opens his mouth, the more ridiculous and out of touch he proves himself to be.

At least we know he can't be a serious candidate in 2016, regardless of what he may think.

As a Canadian, I would say to Snowden, stay as far away as you can. I remember a bully, doing and saying the same things to me, when I showed that he cheated and plagiarized a report. Brings back memories. "man up". lol. "Coward"...Like they don't intend for him to wind up missing or dead.

Snowden did the right thing for the country, imo. We all talk about the conspiracy theories behind things like these. He showed, before the government could label him a conspiracy wack-job and kill him, that there is a $hit pile of truth behind the claims. Had he given the information directly to the Al-Qaeda, that would have been traitorous. He intended it for his countries own people. Evoking a change of thought for the sheople.

It's sad that "bad" people could use that information to attack the U.S. and kill innocent people. But the government doing and having this information, even against its' own people to begin with, is a risk in its' own right. No?

How about Kerry and the whole administration man up and instead of lying each time they open their mouth make good on their promises, not only about whistleblowers but the rest as well?
No?
That's what I thought.

Nut up and come home so we can give you a show trial and then put you in a box for the rest of your life. Pansy.

I find such comment from John Kerry to be somewhat hypocritical. For a start, let us consider the position from which he speaks. He is speaking as a well defended member of his political party, and as a highly placed member of the government. He will, after being involved in politics for as long as he has been, have various skeletons in his closet. The thing which separates him from the people, and indeed Mr Snowden, is that his skeletons, his secrets are protected by the state, so that the state can continue to run with the APPEARANCE of legitimacy and moral solidarity. Mr Snowden, who spoke his truth without such protections, and was called a criminal for doing so, cannot be called out as unpatriotic in this instance. I can think of no greater act of patriotism, than to prevent the justice system being further discredited by being involved with the US governments attempts to prosecute Mr Snowden, by entirely avoiding that system. If he IS ever tried in a US court, that would be the day that any last shred of validity or moral strength left in that over monied institution, evaporates and dissipates into the air. You see, if Mr Snowden is even ARRESTED, or placed before a court, that would indicate one very dark and suspicious thing about the government who are so aggravated by him. It would indicate that when one catches one nation doing something very wrong, that the ill behavior is institutional, that when every "legitimate" attempt has been made to alert the higher authorities to the issue has been met with a stone wall, the only option one has is to either accept it, or become a criminal in the eyes of your government. Now, people, this is not a message that ANY government should be sending its citizens. I would argue, that a government which is doing a good job of representing the wishes of its citizens, would not be a) spying on the people without their express consent, and b) would not, therefore, be able to be accused of spying by contractors in its intelligence industry. John Kerry may have a history for which many applaud him, but I believe that a person should not just be judged on their actions (if at all) but specifically judged on their actions on a given day, or on a given topic. Mr Kerry could have saved the world a thousand times with one hand tied behind his back and a leg missing, but if he continues to behave toward Mr Snowden in both such a dismissive manner, and at the same time such a covetous and possessive manner, and if he brings about Snowdens being prosecuted at any time in the future, he will invalidate all the positive things he has ever done for his country, in one glorious balls up. Snowden is the only patriot related to the story he broke. He told the truth, he alerted the people of the USA to the down right underhanded behavior of its own government, when the atmosphere surrounding the projects which partook of the fruits of that poisonous tree was one of extreme secrecy, despite the fact that these systems and projects were clearly being used in a way which runs counter to the freedom and liberty for which America is world famous, and which many Americans seem to still have a fierce respect and desire for. A patriot is not a person who does what they are told. A patriot, is someone who does what is right, and for many Americans, indeed many citizens of THE PLANET, there is no greater act of patriotism than the example set by Mr Snowden. He saw that something was very wrong, he let people know, and he did so despite the fact, that he knew that it would probably lead to him being unable to remain in the nation in which his life had thus far played out. He knew he would probably have to leave EVERYTHING he had ever worked for, loved, cherished, or enjoyed, because the people for whom he had been working would never let him utter the truth without trying to prosecute him for it. He did it anyway, he spoke the truth, and people heard, and sure enough, such is the anger being expressed toward him from the less informed quarters of society, and indeed from virtually every echelon of government, that to return home would be damned near suicidal. The hardship he has put himself through to ensure that the truth got out, and continues to be heard I might add, is a feat which many people would simply shy away from, and in fact, many people before him had done exactly that. Here is a revelation that Mr Kerry ought to pay attention to. The unpatriotic people in this scenario, would be the people who started the project which caused all the fuss in the first place, the people who signed off on it, the people who worked on the project before Snowden who did not announce its existence to the world, and indeed, the people who continue to work on the project, and the people who act on the intelligence gained thereby as well. This part of my post is directed toward Kerry himself: Sir, I am not a citizen of your nation, I am a citizen of the UK. However, right and wrong do NOT change dependent on ones geographical location, and as such I feel I must warn you of something. When you stopped fighting wars as a soldier, you came home and began fighting battles as a politician. I am sure that you believe you have done good work in your life, in both those roles, and you have been called a patriot over the years, because of those things. However, while you have fought for your nations physical security as a warrior, and for your nations political security as a member of its political establishment, you are fighting AGAINST the spirit of your own country, and against the wishes of the people. Snowden fights for the spirit of your nation, and one can only assume that you have either lost sight of the right and wrong of the situation, or that you have ceased to care what the right and wrong of the matter is. Suffice to say, that a land of freedom and liberty cannot stand as such if it secretly invades the privacy of its citizens, and any system which seeks to do such a thing is unpatriotic. Revealing the existence of such a project is the moral imperative of any individual who believes in the spirit of your nation. You would be better off accepting that, and stopping this pathetic whining, just because your government has been caught doing a great wrong. What you, and the entire political establishment in Washington SHOULD do, is frankly apologise for the creation of this system, shut it down, the members of the government who signed off on it should resign, and you should apologise for your treatment of the ONLY patriot in the command chain of this operation -

a reply to: one4all

Was that a reply or a thesis? My goodness gracious...

i find it disgusting that a man has to hide, for acting upon the very beliefs that the US was founded on believing in!

Second line

I think your post is well worth reading . . . even for aging eyes almost pained by the "wall of text" . . . so I'll reparagraph. . . . with some added emphases.

originally posted by: one4all
I find such comment from John Kerry to be somewhat hypocritical. For a start, let us consider the position from which he speaks. He is speaking as a well defended member of his political party, and as a highly placed member of the government.

.

He will, after being involved in politics for as long as he has been, have various skeletons in his closet. The thing which separates him from the people, and indeed Mr Snowden, is that his skeletons, his secrets are protected by the state, so that the state can continue to run with the APPEARANCE of legitimacy and moral solidarity.

.
Mr Snowden, who spoke his truth without such protections, and was called a criminal for doing so, cannot be called out as unpatriotic in this instance. I can think of no greater act of patriotism, than to prevent the justice system being further discredited by being involved with the US governments attempts to prosecute Mr Snowden, by entirely avoiding that system.
.

If he IS ever tried in a US court, that would be the day that any last shred of validity or moral strength left in that over monied institution, evaporates and dissipates into the air. You see, if Mr Snowden is even ARRESTED, or placed before a court, that would indicate one very dark and suspicious thing about the government who are so aggravated by him.
.

It would indicate that when one catches one nation doing something very wrong, that the ill behavior is institutional, that when every "legitimate" attempt has been made to alert the higher authorities to the issue has been met with a stone wall, the only option one has is to either accept it, or become a criminal in the eyes of your government.
.

Now, people, this is not a message that ANY government should be sending its citizens.

.

I would argue, that a government which is doing a good job of representing the wishes of its citizens, would not be a) spying on the people without their express consent, and b) would not, therefore, be able to be accused of spying by contractors in its intelligence industry.
.

John Kerry may have a history for which many applaud him, but I believe that a person should not just be judged on their actions (if at all) but specifically judged on their actions on a given day, or on a given topic.
.

Mr Kerry could have saved the world a thousand times with one hand tied behind his back and a leg missing, but if he continues to behave toward Mr Snowden in both such a dismissive manner, and at the same time such a covetous and possessive manner, and if he brings about Snowdens being prosecuted at any time in the future, he will invalidate all the positive things he has ever done for his country, in one glorious balls up.
.
[That paragraph was not your clearest one]

Snowden is the only patriot related to the story he broke. He told the truth, he alerted the people of the USA to the down right underhanded behavior of its own government, when the atmosphere surrounding the projects which partook of the fruits of that poisonous tree was one of extreme secrecy, despite the fact that these systems and projects were clearly being used in a way which runs counter to the freedom and liberty for which America is world famous, and which many Americans seem to still have a fierce respect and desire for.
.
[That paragraph could have been clearer--maybe with shorter sentences]


A patriot is not a person who does what they are told. A patriot, is someone who does what is right, and for many Americans, indeed many citizens of THE PLANET, there is no greater act of patriotism than the example set by Mr Snowden.
.

He saw that something was very wrong, he let people know, and he did so despite the fact, that he knew that it would probably lead to him being unable to remain in the nation in which his life had thus far played out. He knew he would probably have to leave EVERYTHING he had ever worked for, loved, cherished, or enjoyed, because the people for whom he had been working would never let him utter the truth without trying to prosecute him for it.
.

He did it anyway, he spoke the truth, and people heard, and sure enough, such is the anger being expressed toward him from the less informed quarters of society, and indeed from virtually every echelon of government, that to return home would be damned near suicidal.
.

The hardship he has put himself through to ensure that the truth got out, and continues to be heard I might add, is a feat which many people would simply shy away from, and in fact, many people before him had done exactly that.
.

Here is a revelation that Mr Kerry ought to pay attention to. The unpatriotic people in this scenario, would be the people who started the project which caused all the fuss in the first place, the people who signed off on it, the people who worked on the project before Snowden who did not announce its existence to the world, and indeed, the people who continue to work on the project, and the people who act on the intelligence gained thereby as well.
.

This part of my post is directed toward Kerry himself: Sir, I am not a citizen of your nation, I am a citizen of the UK. However, right and wrong do NOT change dependent on ones geographical location, and as such I feel I must warn you of something. When you stopped fighting wars as a soldier, you came home and began fighting battles as a politician. I am sure that you believe you have done good work in your life, in both those roles, and you have been called a patriot over the years, because of those things.
.

However, while you have fought for your nations physical security as a warrior, and for your nations political security as a member of its political establishment, you are fighting AGAINST the spirit of your own country, and against the wishes of the people. Snowden fights for the spirit of your nation, and one can only assume that you have either lost sight of the right and wrong of the situation, or that you have ceased to care what the right and wrong of the matter is.
.

Suffice to say, that a land of freedom and liberty cannot stand as such if it secretly invades the privacy of its citizens, and any system which seeks to do such a thing is unpatriotic. Revealing the existence of such a project is the moral imperative of any individual who believes in the spirit of your nation.
.

You would be better off accepting that, and stopping this pathetic whining, just because your government has been caught doing a great wrong. What you, and the entire political establishment in Washington SHOULD do, is frankly apologise for the creation of this system, shut it down, the members of the government who signed off on it should resign, and you should apologise for your treatment of the ONLY patriot in the command chain of this operation -

a reply to: Aliquandro

I'm so sick of these windbag politicians trying to talk like a tuffguy.

Aw c'mon...using phrases like "man up" boosts Kerry's "street cred"!

a reply to: darkbake

John Kerry turned in his man membership card when he caved in on the presidential election. I will always believe he was the straw man candidate who threw the election to fellow skull and bonesman, Dubya Bush. He has NO credibility IMHO. None.


This video always comes to mind when I think of John Kerry. NOT the champion of freedom and free speech exactly, ironically, the kid just wanted to ask him why he laid down like a little puppy instead of contesting the election as he should have. Kerry had promised "teams of lawyers" would descend on any election improprieties. There were many, and instead of contesting the results, he quietly conceded without a whimper, and even John Edwards was incensed. There was something very fishy about it.






Its amazing that someone can ask a question, albeit in an animated fashion, and this is what happens to them.