Has the war on drugs resuted in more deadly drugs appearing?

Doctors 'powerless' to treat UK users of legal highs

It seems every time the UK bans a drug a new one is developed. And these newly developed results seem to have unpredictable results.

Doctors are not magic healers and seem to be having trouble coping with the influx of novel recreational drugs.

Has the crack down on MDMA and original party drugs just created a even more deadly situation were clandestine chemistry create new formula sto surpass existing laws?

The only war on drugs i see, is the war to get more people on the darn drugs. especially pharmaceuticals. I have seen an increase where i live, since about the early 2000's to present. a huge increase in benzo's and opiodes

Obviously.

Don't forget these ridiculous "spice" marijuana alternatives.

Where there's a will there's a way and where's there demand there's will.

Fake Gucci bags, fake drugs, fake guns, fake genitalia.

I suppose there isnt really any added harm in fake designer crap (save the sweat shop workers) or the fake genitalia but cut booze is poison, tampered drugs kill and "zip" guns blow up.

Legal and out in the open is really the best way for everything to be. If you want to stop people from doing a thing or using a thing educate them about the thing. Don't just say "no!" and expect things to get better because they never will. Telling your kid "no!" when he asks for a chocolate doesnt do anything for the desire to eat that chocolate. It just moves the desire underground and one way or another that desire will be fulfilled.

a reply to: thisguyrighthere

Pushing things into the dark will always mean shady things will happen.

and it seems with party drugs it has meant the creation of dangerous substances that are far more deadly than the original drug. Or tainted products made with questionable material.

A true war on drugs would be fought in the hearts and minds of men, not in prisons and hospitals. It's a culture thing. Only we can stop the recklessness by teaching our children not to fall prey to common trends that are hazardous to ourselves and our communities.

Prison sentences only make drugs more profitable for all the wrong people.

The answer to the question in your title is: undoubtedly!

I have quite a lot of knowledge in this area, as I've been following these developments for a number of years now. Unfortunately, I'm a little reluctant to elaborate too much, as ATS seems to go back-and-forth as to what level of discussion is acceptable-- even when speaking clinically, factually, and in no way advocating for.

We know that "traditional" illegal drugs have risks. But we also know more or less exactly what those risks are. Because most of the common drugs of abuse have been used for many decades, if not centuries.


On the other hand, right now people are taking extremely powerful drugs recently created outside of an academic environment, on which no real human data, or even animal testing exists! This stuff could be wildly carcinogenic, or cause heart valve issues (as some stimulant drugs are known to do), or some type of brain damage, or liver or kidney damage... the list goes on...

And the important thing to note here, is that people are taking these risks to circumvent the law. There is no way to stop this without banning all new chemicals (which would be prohibitive for legitimate research, and would be a massive blow to personal freedom) or they can ban them one-by-one as they come out. But there are an endless array of molecules and variations. So the labs can almost crank out new chemicals faster than they can be banned.


The last few years the popularity of these alternatives has exploded. Many of these drugs (which are very inexpensive, when purchased from the source) are being sold on the black market, passed off as their illegal counterparts. Since the safety profiles of these drugs (and sometimes dosage) can be drastically different, this has lead to quite a lot of hospitalizations, and even a few handfuls of deaths.


The war on drugs has consistently done the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do, in terms of its impact on society. This is just one example of many. I believe this "war" has done far more damage to society than that which is purports to fight.

a reply to: iwilliam

Well said, cant really add anything too that.

Here in my town they pushed a hard campaign against coke mdma and mary. I told my fiance we'll start seeing ice and spice sprout up. Oh good gosh I had no idea how right I was.

They've pretty much eliminated those people selling spice but the meth epidemic is killing this town. Literally. Theft is at an all time high and no one seems immune. Pillars of the community are getting wrapped up in it.

They've been cracking down on opiates recently (2 local pharmacies selling them)and our local paper headline the other day read "Heroine found for the 1st Time in ××××× County."

I asked a known doper what was the deal with new stuff showing it's ugly face. He answered "low supply is creating the high demand for any and every drug."

Ah yes.

Whenever you have an unregulated drug market you have people willing to mix drugs with anything.

Cut drugs with anything.

Produce drugs with anything.

Only in properly regulated and legal markets do you have proper quality drugs. At that, most of the time hard drug use decreases considerably once you remove the black market from any given area.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Exactly when goes into the black market there is no quality control.

Dont get me wrong I would never touch the stuff but as someone who has worked in the pharma industry I see how vital quality control is. Bad products cost lives and that's in real official pharma world.

Pushing production into some high school drop out hill billys shed or basement using battery acids , drain cleaner or goodness know what ever else to produce drugs? It going to create deaths.

a reply to: crazyewok

This is and was obvious if you just look into prohibition era alcohol. There were MANY cases of improperly distilled alcohol being sold. The war on drugs is pretty much prohibition 2.0 so all the problems from 1.0 exist in the new version, just exasperated WAY beyond what they were with alcohol.

Here's a good link listing 12 bad effects of Prohibition which I've listed below as well (click on the link to read the explanations, though I elaborated on the one relevant to this topic). Notice any similarities between then and now?

12 Bad Effects of Prohibition You Should Know

1. Prohibition created disrespect for the law.
2. Prohibition eroded respect for religion.
3. Prohibition created organized crime.
4. Prohibition permanently corrupted law enforcement, the court system, and politics.
5. Prohibition overburdened police, courts, and the penal system.
6. Prohibition harmed people financially, emotionally, and morally.
7. Prohibition caused physical harm. - Because alcohol was illegal, its purity was not regulated. While fruit, vegetable, and grain alcohol is usually safe, alcohol made from wood is not — but it is difficult to tell the difference until too late. Over 10,000 people died during Prohibition from drinking wood alcohol. Others who were not killed went permanently blind or had severe organ damage.

The same happens today with illegal drugs — most overdoses are accidental, a result from not knowing the purity or strength of the drug.
8. Prohibition changed the drinking habits of our country — for the worse.
9. Prohibition made cigarette smoking a national habit.
10. Prohibition prevented the treatment of drinking problems.
11. Prohibition caused “immorality.”
12. Prohibition was phenomenally expensive.

It's funny how news sources report on this stuff in reference to drugs like it is surprising to find out about it. It's like they forgot that we've tried this nonsense before in the past...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yup exact same problem with alcohol prohibition. Badly made moonshine again cost lifes.

Now the problem if 1000x worse.

Soon as quality control is removed people die.

a reply to: crazyewok

@Has the war on drugs resulted in more deadly drugs appearing?

I don't think twod has caused the new appearances it may be that some wish to play mad scientist to advance their financial situations over existing interest associated w/ twod and so to attempt to place themselves ahead of existing interest some may be designing anything(s) to grab the populaces interest levels w/ hope that their new form of extremism overtakes the existing. In the process many abusing are basically being approached as lab mice until the products are more touched up.

To 1 the answer is health (early) education programs for the youth as well as leadership enhancement courses to teach the youth how to better lead themselves and not follow others bad habits which grows them into adults that are not even interested in the drugs at all…

NAMASTE*******

United $tates of Alcohol, Xanax, and Hydrocodone. Big Pharma , Tobacco, Oil and Gas, FDA, EPA AMA, APA,ADA, FBI, CIA, NSA, Mossad, ISI, Mi5, Mi6, Nato, Wall Street, Top 10 World Banks, and WHO are having a Babylonian orgy.

and CHINA is an ally
CHA CHING Li $$$$$$$$$$$$$

No mystery


Remember- SWAT comes on Shabbat Fridays


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

No mystery they wear all black and they are armed through the teeth. Deep down they know they are doing wrong so they hide themselves and wear symbols representing their initiation into the various orders of darkne$$.= (Pentagrams and Hexagrams) The darkness does not understand so it gets angry at the spoken truth once again.


Words that make you want to hurt me doesn't it? I understand how you feel.

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

But why would one want to play mad scientist if a "safer" and easier to make sustenance is already on the market?

Who would want to buy some dodgy experimental crap when a known, tested and identifiable product with proper QC is available.

To me the war on drugs has created market. It created a profitable hole in the market back street chemists can exploit.

If there was a widely available and reasonable safe legal high with proper QC? I see that market vanishing.

a reply to: crazyewok

Legal highs are far more dangerous than illegal ones.

1) Illegal ones are generally well studied, warning signs and risk symptoms are easy to find and doctors have anti-dote style drugs to stop the effect/potential overdose. While they're certainly by no means safe, with a lot of research and preparation you can minimize any risk.

2) Legal highs are mostly made in rusty bath tubs in China, no one has a clue what's in it - a doctor is completely powerless to offer any form of treatment as there's been literally no testing on the short, long term effects and how to treat overdoses. As there's no info available on them and 'pill' dosages widely, it's pretty much Russian roulette with your brain and body.

Don't bother with that kind of thing any more but when I tried legal highs they just felt like a very, very dirty and not at all enjoyable substances compared to what they were meant to mimic.

As for MDMA one of the precursors was banned while the alternative precursor (which causes death in moat upon ingestion with MDMA) - so much for harm reduction.

a reply to: crazyewok
YES!!!
The war on drugs is pushing folks to other much more harmful drugs.
You see, folks used to use "voldermort" (That which must not be named here on ATS).
But the feds and their corporate buddies realized what a miricle thing this was and all of the revenue that would be lost.
So...people mix chemicals in their kitchens in pursuit of a high and these things are bad.
If it was made by the Goddess, how bad could it possibly be?

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: crazyewok

@Has the war on drugs resulted in more deadly drugs appearing?

I don't think twod has caused the new appearances it may be that some wish to play mad scientist to advance their financial situations over existing interest associated w/ twod and so to attempt to place themselves ahead of existing interest some may be designing anything(s) to grab the populaces interest levels w/ hope that their new form of extremism overtakes the existing. In the process many abusing are basically being approached as lab mice until the products are more touched up.

You should read the link I provided. History repeats itself, and we've tried this ban on substances before.

To 1 the answer is health (early) education programs for the youth as well as leadership enhancement courses to teach the youth how to better lead themselves and not follow others bad habits which grows them into adults that are not even interested in the drugs at all…

NAMASTE*******

We have that program. It's called the DARE program. Oh wait it doesn't work either.

originally posted by: iwilliam

The war on drugs has consistently done the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do, in terms of its impact on society. This is just one example of many. I believe this "war" has done far more damage to society than that which is purports to fight.

The "War on Drugs" has consistently done the exact opposite of what we have been led to believe is its purpose. However, it is a scam and it has done what it was always intended for it to do. I have stated here on ATS one hundred times already and it bears repeating - The War on Drugs was never intended to curtail drug traffic, its purpose has always been to control drug traffic. And with that purpose comes many other more insidious effects. Very high up on the top of that list is the erosion of our privacies and Constitutional rights.

Misplaced altruism has made the drug war an easy sell to the public, and its "failures" that that the phoney war has augmented leaves the public asking for even stricter laws and enforcement. Now, decades later, much of the public has begun to recognize the fallacy in this war on its people.

Has the War on Drugs resulted in more deadly drugs appearing? Yes.

Nearly five decades ago youths and our soldiers returning from Vietnam discovered the lie and untruths about 'marijuana' and a counter-culture developed largely centered around its use. Although pot was not legal then it was largely accepted during the last half of the 60's decade. Then came President Nixon's War on Drugs as the 70's began, and all hell broke loose. For months cannabis became difficult if not impossible to obtain and a flood of other drugs betan flooding the streets. They were much more dangerous, many of them pharmaceutical drugs such as seconal, nembutal, and other 'downers' that led to over-doses and other bad consequences. Highly addictive opiates were appearing on the scene during this time when a "War" was being waged on the relatively mild and benign 'marijuana' whose supply was virtually eliminated at that time. Much damage was done before the pot supply was able to resume, and by that time we truly had a problem with drugs on the streets.

For years we thought our government policy-makers were stupid and dense to cause that to happen that way. It took many of us another couple decades to realize they were not the group of idiots they appeared to be but came to realize that their plan had succeeded as intended. 50 years in coming we may be finally on the verge of putting an end to this insanity. There are substances that perhaps should be battled and not permitted on our streets but cannabis is not where that battle should be focused, that is ground that should be ceded to the people immediately. But perhaps we allowed "prohibition" campaigns to get too far out of hand for too long and that is no longer a viable solution for even the worst of the problem. It may now only lead to corruption and worse.

a reply to: Erongaricuaro

Yup I do think the war on drugs has done the opposite to its goal.

And maybe intentionaly. Some big buissness have gained alot out of this while the public are worse off.

I dont like recreational drugs, infact once I was pro prohibtion but after my years in university studying these things in detail I just honnestly cant see how prohibition has done any good.

We cant eliminate drug use, if ones wants to get high they will. All we can do is harm reduction and prohibition does the opposite to that.