When is enough, enough?

Part of my morning devotions goes like this: “Dear Lord thank you for all the blessings in my life, I ask only for two things; to never be poor and to never be rich”. Yet like so many, I find myself wanting more than I have; Jealous of the neighbor’s car, more money, more of everything. I often disgust myself.

One has to wonder how much of this is a reflection on my culture?

Take into account the Native Americans and their history. They never went through an industrial revolution as their entire culture was predicated on satisfaction with their current lives. They lived in a land of plenty where nature/God provided them all they needed for a full and satisfactory life. Europeans on the other hand found their populations increasing and their need for “more” escalating at a phenomenal rate.

Speaking in a general, societal and historical perspective, the need for “more” often equates itself into taking something someone else has for your own. That in turn leads to developing weapons, industry and the mass production of staples.

This can also be compared to the Native Americans in their historical lack of taking other lives even in their own kind of warfare. Quite often “counting coup” held far more honor to them then did the taking of a life. They had enough.

While my genetics include Native American influence on both sides of my parents and doubly on my father’s side, the influence of my European ancestors is apparently far stronger in me. That combined with growing up very, very poor and finding myself now moderately successful, the need for more comes to me no matter how I resist.

Going back to the standards and lifestyle exhibited by Native Americans is practically undoable at this point in our history as one is almost required to own the land one lives on and that in and of itself precludes the very pure nature of their beliefs.

So; when is enough, enough?

originally posted by: semperfortis
So; when is enough, enough?

Answer ... when it's enough.

Not 'enough' to satisfy gluttony or disordered desires. But when it's 'enough' to get through life physically and emotionally and spiritually.

anyways .. that's my thought.

Looking at things in a VERY practical manner, all one needs is:

1. Water
2. Shelter
3. Food
4. Fire
5. Companionship

Everything else is just a desire and not a need or a plus to be added to what you already have.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Agreed YET

That is fairly ethereal

Is there anyway to actually take that and place actual physical requirements into the equation?

It's funny you should mention that. I'm getting close to being done with school…less than a year…and I start thinking about moving and how much of this crap here I've collected I don't need nor want. I always feel better when I can fit all my possessions into a truck or SUV and take off. A lot of my friends always talk about traveling and seeing new places but then make the excuse that they have to pay bills or need this or that or no time. It all stems from having a ton of stuff you have to maintain and worry about. When I have my load paired down light I end up being able to go and do more stuff without worry of what I'm leaving behind. It's really an awesomely free feeling.

PS. I can see someones had their coffee this morning…already on to deep thinking lol.

a reply to: semperfortis

The example of the native Americans, and indeed the example set by many ancient cultures, is a good one to aspire to. However, what you have to realise, is that quite apart from any media influence which may have crept beneath your defences, your government requires things of you, which insist that you behave in a certain way.

For example, if you are to be comfortably able to feed yourself and your loved ones, house yourself and your loved ones, and heat your home, and power it, then you need to be able to do these things easily after tax, without being in a chronic state of pulling your hair out. That means, that the impetus, the motivation upon you, is to make more money than the mere requirements of physical life would require.

Because that is drummed into any person who lives in a society which revolves around the many being governed by the few, you cannot be expected to cease that sort of behaviour and cut back your earning potential to match the pure requirements of physical existence. To do so would see you unable to pay any taxes what so ever, which would immediately sink you neck deep in the crap!

So that is one reason why having enough is not enough in this era. Unless the law changes to support a more rustic way of life in the developed world, enough will always be too little, if only because of the demands of government upon your resources.

The other things that weigh into when enough becomes enough, is what you can put up with, while maintaining a certain vim and vigour about your person. I personally have lived on the street, and never once during that time did I feel that I had too little. I was fed, I was clean, I was sleeping under starlight, nestled at the root of a large tree through most of that time, and at the age of eighteen or so, I really could not have envisioned a more vibrant manner of living. However, I am sure there are those who for one reason or another would not be able to put up with that existence, so there is individual tolerance for hardship to consider as well.

Personally, I think that enough is when your ability to survive something, and your ability to pay your way taxes wise, combine at an optimum point. This virtually never occurs in the modern world, so I have to conclude that enough is a myth in this day and age, because even those who could live on just enough, would be breaking the law in so doing.

a reply to: RickyD

PS. I can see someones had their coffee this morning…already on to deep thinking lol.

I did



I guess if I reduced down to a bare minimum, coffee would be high on my list of things I would miss

a reply to: TrueBrit

While I agree, I certainly do not like the way things are..

We must be the only species on Earth that has a burning desire to be free. Free of the shackles that we have created for ourselves.
7 years ago i had nothing, Broken Marriage, no home, no clothes, Nothing, but i had a job.
I skipped work for three week without notifying anyone where i was, what i was up too. I saw it as a personal problem that only i should deal with and i really didn't feel like sharing my situation with anyone at that time. so off i went.

I got a tent, sleeping bag, camp stove from a friend and headed for the hills, not knowing where i might end up or what lay in store for me with my newly found freedom and i must say i had never felt so free of the millstone in my life. I had broken my chains and was for the first time since i was a kid " A Free Man".

I had dreams of traveling the world, of wild adventures, of doing the things i should have done when i was 18, but sometimes life doesn't allow you to do these things, lets just say i already had made my bed by this time and the Dreams of escape from what i had become were over.... Why. I had two kids who needed me. They needed my support and guidance. They needed my love and most of all they needed that new pair of Nike's.

So I went back to the Millstone for them, with a promise to myself that when the youngest is 18 i would have saved enough money to do the things i've always wanted to do, to escape for that one last adventure.

Well my youngest has now turned 18, i'm 47, unemployed with a houseful of crap, Beds, TV's, XBOX's, 9 guitars, computers, etc, etc, etc..Crap built up over the years because i lost focus and fell back into the ways of the consumer, the Locust.

Now i have to deal with the problem of selling all this garbage at a loss just to get back on track when i should have just stuck the money in a bank.

Where i end up, well who knows, At 47 my life is not over, not by a long shot, and i aim to have one last go at living as a free man, well as free as one possibly can be in this day and age.

originally posted by: semperfortis
Is there anyway to actually take that and place actual physical requirements into the equation?

Like a check off list for what is really physical and emotional and spiritual requirements? I don't think there is one universal checkoff list for all people. It depends on the person and the situation - IMHO. Emotional survival needs are different for someone in NYC than they are for someone in the African bush.



The basic answer is found in Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs . I had to know it for college, but I should state that I disagree with it. (no matter what guys think ... they can live without sex)

The basics for physical survival - Air, Food, Water, Shelter (I include clothing in shelter as well as proper living temperature).

The basics for emotional survival - Physical security, self confidence.

The basics for spiritual survival - Purpose and goal (which can also cross over to emotional).

when it's enough!

originally posted by: semperfortis
Looking at things in a VERY practical manner, all one needs is:

1. Water
2. Shelter
3. Food
4. Fire
5. Companionship

6. Health
7. Strength

Brother: when your mind wonders (as your thread implies) ... focus on #7.

S&F!

1] Water: Water: How much should you drink every day? (MayoClinic)

So how much fluid does the average, healthy adult living in a temperate climate need? The Institute of Medicine determined that an adequate intake (AI) for men is roughly 3 liters (about 13 cups) of total beverages a day. The AI for women is 2.2 liters (about 9 cups) of total beverages a day.

Consume more or less at your own peril!

Note: This does not include water for all other non drinking purposes, which amounts to ...

Water Questions & Answers: How much water does the average person use at home per day?

Estimates vary, but each person uses about 80-100 gallons of water per day.

The Price of Water: A Comparison of Water Rates, Usage in 30 U.S. Cities

A family of four using 100 gallons per person each day will pay on average $34.29 a month in Phoenix compared to $65.47 for the same amount in Boston.

The survey, conducted by Circle of Blue over the last several months, also found that average daily residential water use ranged from a low of 41 gallons per person in Boston to a high of 211 gallons per person in Fresno, Calif.

($34.29 + $65.47) / 2 = $50.oo per month for 11200 gallons [100gal per person per day and 4 persons per month] = about 1/2 a penny per gallon.

So if one is spending more than 50c per day on total water usage that is probably to much water used or the water costs too much.

The rest of the equation is covered by average annual household expenditure ...

2012 Consumer Expenditure Report (PDF) [bls.gov]

And one can simply take any of the units in the table and compare with ones own expenditure and for an example I will use the households average annual expenditure on Tobacco products and smoking supplies = $332.oo per year.

Now as the average cost per packet of smokes in the USA is ...

The Price Of Cigarettes: How Much Does A Pack Cost In Each US State? [MAP]

According to The Awl’s annual cigarette price check, for which they call delis in each state and ask how much a pack of cigarettes costs, New York clocks in with the most expensive, at more than $14 a pack.

In Kentucky, where the cigarette tax is just 60 cents, a pack costs $4.96, about a third of its cost in New York.

($14.oo + $4.96) / 2 = $8.50 [rnded up] average cost per packet.

$332.oo / $8.50 = 39 packets per year.

So if you smoke a pack a week then you are overspending by about 1/4th compared to what the average user buys.

I could go on and detail the costs for petrol usage and food expenditure but I wont bore my fellow members with such details that they can easily work out for themselves if they utilize the links I have provided.

Finally the Gov recommends a Daily Intake Allowance for food ...

Guidance for Industry: A Food Labeling Guide (14. Appendix F: Calculate the Percent Daily Value for the Appropriate Nutrients)[nih.gov]

And one can then compare the amounts of nutrients in ones food and can compare that to the tables and find out if one is eating healthy enough.

Also living in the USA requires a CAR ... it is not a choice ... it is required!

a reply to: semperfortis

I am right there with you!

Personally speaking, I would be better off in spirit if I lived on what I could hunt and gather, if I had to build my own shelter, rather than somehow raking together enough of a pile of money to rent a place, let alone buy one. It always did strike me that everything that has been done to make life easier, has made it more complicated, all the things which were invented to reduce the necessity for human labour, have increased the amount that any one person must toil to acheive their goals.

In terms of the relationship between what one gains, and what one is forced to part with, in terms of having enough, well... there are not many better examples of the folly of the modern way than that!

There is nothing wrong with wanting something, the issue however, is wanting something for yourself. We are all victims to this weakness, not because its inert within us but because we were all raised that way. Before the innocence is lost children (raised with love) actually prefer to give rather than receive. My daughters one of those children. When the children finally discover how cruel the world really is, their defense mechanisms kick in. Some will resist while others embrace.

There is nothing wrong with advancement and the enjoyment of creature comforts........for other people. And there lies the truth that is lost on so many. If everyone actually focused on what they can do to help other people instead of themselves, we would find ourselves in a situation where no one really wants for anything, and people will begin to see that giving is actually receiving. I know that with the ego, pride and greed it is difficult to see this reality, and of course there are those who designed a system to hide this reality.

The foundation we walk upon is corrupt and diseased. Our feet are bare. There can never be a "solution" to our problem without a new foundation. Anything other would be a bandaid. We cannot build a new foundation until we realize the one we walk upon is corrupting us.

Once you can sustain the things YOU NEED everything else is just a bonus. If you find you have more than enough money in the bank, then stop by some poor persons home and make improvements for them that will help them sustain the basics or make their life a little easier/happier.

I'm guilty of getting a little irked over something that somebody else bought. Especially somebody who has terrible credit,-because they don't pay their bills, but yet, they can always find someone to finance things for them. I feel that way because I got almost everything the hard way. It's not healthy letting things like that get to ya, but they will at some point. It's just human nature, I think.

a reply to: semperfortis

You need to see the movie called "A Man Called Horse" on YT for free, then read the comments.

One correction to your OP is the elders of Native Americans always plan for seven generations forward in their decisions.

Our whole system drives people to strive against their inner compass. We must go to school at an early age to lean to read and write, so we can get an education, so we can get a degree, so we can get a job, so we can have a career, so we can save money to buy a house, with a two car garage… with two cars.

We have everything and still aren't happy. if you live indoors, have switches on the wall, a fridge full of food, mobility and a bank account, you are in the upper few percent of all the people that ever lived as far as creature comforts and provisions.

After a secure sleep in a soft bed, we get into our conveyances and drive to work without our feet ever touching the ground. Don't ever become complacent about that.

If it makes you feel guilty, burn it all and move under a bridge for a while. Face the void of nothingness… I guarantee you will have a fresh perspective.

Ive got roof overhead.. food on the table.. clothes on my back ..
Am content have neither need nor use for all the things people think they need ..
We come into this world with nothing .. we take nothing with us when we leave ..
Better to do what can while here to make the world a better place ..

collecting, amassing, controlling, owning 'enough' is a personally subjective limit

I see in others...their status in the larger community changed, when they have attained the level of 'more-than-enough'

the sheeple bend-over-backwards to essentially K--- Their A--
...those that have more than they need are generally aloof and smug and flamboyant
...their voices hold more sway than even the village Preacher
...their words are as respected as that of a supreme court Justice
~maybe my viewpoints are revolved around all the Plantation mentality I have seen in SC for 40+ years~

i am near certain that even if i hit a multi-million lottery, i would remain as a struggling, survivor type of life style


so i guess the 'enough' goal post is always moving
and we can only hope that we never have 'too much' so that we cut ourselves off from who & what we really are
and keep the friendships we made through a lifetime