I've lost all respect for the term Racist

a reply to: Shoujikina

The Universe changes constantly, and civilizations have been born, evolved into perfection, so that they have not contained even one 'racist', 'bigot' or 'ignorant' being, and yet you (who made the claim, I mean) are here claiming, that these kind of individuals will ALWAYS be there! Don't you see how ludicrous that is?

Care to name me one of these "grand" civilizations that somehow got rid of all of the racism in their culture? and evolved into perfection?

Anyone who says they don't notice skin color is totally lying to themselves. If you are black and walk into a room full of white folks they notice. If you're white and walk into a room full of black folks they most definitely notice. "Tribalism" (I refuse to use the R word in this thread) has been bred and programmed into us homo sapiens by millions and millions of years of evolution. It is only in fairly recent history that we have been lumped all together and told to like it or be forever labeled "racist".

Ever notice how folks that go to prison have to join up with the preferred gang of their skin color or risk being alone? At our core we are tribal animals with thumbs and a big brain. As much as people want to believe that we are more than that, all that is is wishful thinking.

So maybe, just maybe hundreds/thousands of years into the future humans will have finally kept having enough sex with each other that we are all the same color. And still people will find reasons to divide themselves, to segregate themselves, they will look for differences and find them because that's how we have been programmed.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

prejudice is a better word and is culturally induced through cultural MEMEs and stereotypes.- No one is truly racist, anti-semite(which really means anti-arabic) bigot etc.

Its all PSYOPS warfare divide and conquer- Ask the NSA next door.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
From what I have seen especially in the media and elsewhere, it's usually the most educated and intelligent individuals that stir the pot and continually push the envelope. Most likely, those that continually cry afoul are being led that way by the educated, which are taking advantage of the ignorant.

It's probably fair to say that the majority of individuals using the technique don't have any idea what they are doing or for what purpose their doing it, other than it's what their hearing and seeing. Educating people is perhaps the only viable solution.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
double post.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
a reply to: Shoujikina
So maybe, just maybe hundreds/thousands of years into the future humans will have finally kept having enough sex with each other that we are all the same color.

Is anyone else depressed by this thought? I've thought about posting a thread about this since it pops up in every thread discussing race. I'm sorry, some of you may see this as a good thing, but to me it just means a more boring world. I enjoy the different races, it's part of what makes us all individuals. This world is already becoming more and more boring because of the internet creating a type of mob rule on this planet, anyone thinking differently is persecuted, and beaten down till they conform with the majority. Now everyone wants to look the same? No thanks.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
a reply to: hammanderr

Now if a child sees a person that looks different, experiences negative results from dealing with that type of person and then further notices that all those people live in a certain neighborhood. Is that child a racist because of this empirically gained perspective?

I've always asked the people who say "nobody is born racist" why does it exist then? If it was taught from one generation to the next then how did it get started?

It can absolutely be a learned behavior but I think most people still think of modern humans as somehow better than that. Truth is we are really not.

I think it's a combination of ignorance and being raised that way.

Someone once told me "What if a black guy robbed your mom" and he thought it was a great argument, but I judge individuals by their actions, I thought it was dumb. I've had people of every race wrong me, especially my own, but I've never been inclined to generalize entire populations.

I've been told we are all racist, but I have friends and family of every race. I'm not one of these lame people claiming color blind, but it's not something I obsess with. I see race enough to rank Asian girls among my favorite, but if an Asian girl screwed me over, it wouldn't ruin all Asians. With racist that's not the case.

Many racists live in fantasy lands where their race doesn't do the same stuff they criticize others for. Klan members talk about black/mexican/jew rape, violence, welfare, drugs etc... as if whites are immune.

Want to see racists? Go to the black community. Ask about 'brown bag parties'...a brown bag party is when someone throws a party and then puts a brown grocery bag on their door. It signifies if you are darker than the bag, you are not welcome.
Then ask about the terms 'peanut head' and 'carp face'.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Dont forget Feminism....apparently we men today have done something so horrible , that they get all rewards from the government, and we get to take the blame for it ...I don't know..enslaving or oppressing them somehow? Either we are still doing this, or they are getting paid mad ends for women who have been in their graves for a very long time. Either way, none of its logical. I work at a telecommunications company and have for 3 years,...I have 13 managers in the building who are women and 3 who are men....and this is just in the building, not counting the upper echelon, they still send out memos and call themselves "minorities" ...what a laugh. This is called pissing on our backs and telling us its raining. This is like a race using the race card, only its affirmative action doing the same thing. Lest we forget how we men oppress them today. Even if this happened in the past....why are they being rewarded for the women who actyually had to endure it? it makes no sense, unless the government WANTS the society at war.

originally posted by: angelchemuel
I apologise if I am over-simplifying things, but if you take a whole bunch of young children from all walks of life, colour and creed in the same room they will play together. Racism is something we are taught, not born with....it only happens when adults interfere

Just my 2p worth

Rainbows
Jane

You sure seem sure of this, but I bet you have zero proof.

I contend that a GOOD MANY children that were never told about the differences will end up forming into groups.

It is MORE than natural to see differences, and to make choices about those differences.

Sure is funny though to see people make assumptions that they really cannot back up, and are actually believed as FACT.

a reply to: kruphix

People claim they aren't racists...but are radically against illegal immigration....but for some reason only on the southern border.

.

Illegal is not a race. Just because most illegals happen to be from South of the border, people assume that those against illegal immigration are racist against those who are from there. It doesn't matter how many times we tell people they are assuming, just knowing we are against illegal immigration paints us as a racist, hateful, disgusting etc.

a reply to: daveinats

I am black, and have lived in a black community all my life, until I moved to Japan. I've never heard of this 'brown bag party' or the other terms you speak of. You can't generalize blacks as racist because you know of a few idiots. Maybe you live in the UK or Australia, which is why I've never heard of these things. The same can be said of any community, and most communities have their 'cliques.' You're speaking of a group of imbeciles in a community, not the entire community....

a reply to: beezzer

How can you tell the difference between someone with a legitimate criticism and a person using a topic to promote their own personal bias?

Here are some good examples of that.

I agree with the OP completely, but I don't think "racism" is actually the only applicable term here. Time and time again, and more so recently, I have seen this kind of thing going on...basically people being shown evidence that is contrary to their own personal bias openly attacking other members not just about racial or ethnic issues, but everything.

For example on a recent "killer cop" thread, the OP used false information to draw attention (whether this was purposeful or not, I don't know but it was certainly irresponsible regardless) and within minutes had all these people freaking out, condemning all law enforcement (and anyone who disagreed was referred to as "one of THEM") without ever having read either the article nor the responses from people who actually did read it, and viciously attacking those people solely based on hatred and their own one-sided view of things...and appallingly, purporting the suggestion of extremely violent retaliation against all law enforcement when in reality, the truth was right in front of them...they just refused to see it.

The backlash against those of us trying to be the voice of reason was absolutely chilling, and even one of the mods jumped into the fray, screaming "MURDER!" and inciting even more of a frenzy. There was even someone who said if his family was ever harmed by a cop, he would retaliate by murdering said cop, and his entire family, and also murder any other officers who responded to the scene. The worst part was, the OP pulled the article from one of those extremist anti-law enforcement sites and the information wasn't even accurate...

Cop

There was another one several days prior to that where I myself was openly attacked for pointing out discrepancies in the OP's sources and offering a different explanation, seeing it from both sides of the story. I was labeled a "cop lover", (among other things) and the person saying these hateful things took the thread completely off-topic and ran with it, citing bogus claims about the police involved and basically grasping at any straw he could to try and be right, while spewing hate and ignorance at anyone who challenged his misguided, obsessive ranting. The venom and hatred was practically dripping off the screen...

another cop

I am by no means a fragile little flower, and I am not one bit afraid to stand alone and fight for what I believe in, but this garbage was just over the top. I have seen some legitimate stories of police brutality and agree that it is a huge problem, but when you have people suggesting getting 2000 people to go to an officer's home, beat him to death and write a message in his blood, and endanger the lives of other people in the process, that takes things to a whole new level. There was even a member who stated that Anarchy was the only solution to the problem. The scariest thing is, people might actually do something like that...based on intolerance and blind hatred and nothing remotely resembling actual facts. The guy in my second link there was stating that all coroners, cops, judges and the entirety of the sheriff's department had engaged in falsifying evidence and a massive cover-up to exonerate this sheriff's deputy...even though it was investigated by the state, not the county of jurisdiction.


Then we have this little jewel, where a member posts about the tragic death of a small girl and the horrible abuse she suffered before finally being brutally killed by her abuser, and at least two people took the fact that her ethnicity was mentioned as license to turn the thread into a huge political issue and a vehicle for their own biased agenda. Thankfully in that one several people besides myself called them out on it and the subject was dropped. But the seed was planted nonetheless...

little girl

So it isn't just "racism"; it is intolerance...of race, of ethnicity, of vocation, of familial affiliation, social "status", among other things...and the people who stir that pot are no better (and in some cases, worse) than the people whom they are discriminating against in the first place. What ever happened to denying ignorance? I didn't join this site for that kind of garbage, and I know many others didn't either. All this kind of behavior does is keep people at each other's throats and promote violence and intolerance. I've been here for over two years and it wasn't like this when I first signed up...and if it continues to escalate, I can't speak for others, but I certainly won't be coming back anymore.

S&F to the OP; very thoughtfully and well written post. Thank you

yeah.. same

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Or any form of it like bigot, sexist, anti-Semite, etc. Too often in public and on this website I see someone when debating a controversial topic play what is now known as the "race card". These people tend to ignore the very real points and issues that their opponent is making only to try to shut them up completely by admonishing their character. This tactic was made famous with the Obama administration, but it is bleeding over into other forms of bigotry. We have pro-Israel people on this forum calling anti-Israel people anti-Semite like they are one in the same. I've seen racist calls against people not wanting to buy into (illegal) immigration reform. Religious types adopting persecution complexes when separation of church and state is brought up. It's getting ridiculous and we, especially, ATS should be better than that. Feigning offense and shouting "RACIST!" whenever your opponent makes a good point is in poor taste and should be frowned upon.

On top of that, the accusations of racism are starting to breed racism, resentment, and hate. By accusing others like the boy who cried wolf with cries of racist, you are fueling the very racism that you are trying to fight. You are therefore becoming an instrument of racism. I understand the inherent hypocrisy of this statement in the context of my thread, but it must be said. The term racist has become so taboo (it's almost like a cuss word these days), that when someone gets accused of it, their WHOLE lives can be destroyed. If this was a shallow or nonexistent accusation, then you can be sure if they weren't racist before they at the very least don't like you and what you are representing.

Also, by continually drudging up and making people think about racism, you are fueling the divisions between people. You are focusing and giving attention to the negative aspects of human behavior. Human behavior requires reinforcement to be perpetuated. If instead we try to drop the labels it becomes easier to see eye to eye with someone. We forget that there was even a division based on skin color to begin with. Of course this doesn't mean that we can't ALWAYS ignore racism. If it exists, then call it out. That's fine, but think about your actions before doing them. Can the person you are talking to just be disagreeing with your points instead of some imaginary difference between the two of you? Why not try the benefit of the doubt first? I understand that racism exists, there are some very real and hateful people out there, but to pretend like EVERY person who isn't of your race/sex/religion/etc is out to get you is disingenuous, not to mention is racist in of itself. You are becoming that which you are accusing your opponent of.

What a breath of fresh air!

A very cogent thread and well put together, i applaud you.

I have been getting sick to death of the people using the "race card" when ever it suits them.

We seem to be more worried about the offending others these days, and been taught by the media on how we are supposed to act and feel, with out any input on our behalf!

I have read a few of the replies from others as well, and their comments make me smile. Well done to those with a sober head on their shoulders.

I've come to the conclusion that the "racism" bandwagon is nothing more than a political tool to keep us all at each others throats than at the throats of the people who cause all of the real problems, and being 45 I can actually remember being confused as a kid when suddenly racism was all that you heard about on tv, the radio, in the papers, etc, etc, etc.

Furthermore I conclude that the reason people fall for it is because they are ill educated about the truth of the past - they believe that racism is a major problem that needs tackling because "white people took advantage of black people by making them slaves."

But this is just false.

In the 18th & 19th Centuries in England (since that's where I'm from), 99.99999% of white people didn't have slaves, they were little more than slaves themselves. They could hardly feed themselves, they would live 2 or 3 families to 1 room with no furniture or beds, etc.

They spent 16 hours per day, 6 days per week at work - why on earth would they even need a slave if they could even afford one?

Children were put to work in factories, down mines, in foundries, in the fields or anywhere else at 5 years old, although it was not uncommon for 4 year old children to be working as well.

We need to drop the notion of slavery and the plight of the black race, and instead think of exploitation and the plight of all races.

Don't you think those children were being exploited? And their parents too? They were white.

Slavery was abolished in England in 1833. Children under the age of 10 continued to be made to work until 1880 - and they were almost exclusively white - doesn't that suggest that there was something going on that was driven by something other than the colour of skin?

It has never been about white people exploiting black people, it has ALWAYS been about rich people exploiting poor people.

They didn't care what colour your skin was, what nationality you were, what religion you were, etc. All they cared was that they could exploit you because you had no way to stand up and say "no."

That is why the first slaves were the Irish, shipped off to work on the sugar plantations - the colour of their skin meant nothing.

As Karl Marx put it in 1864: "[British Industry] could but live by sucking blood, and children’s blood too"

As the Chancellor of the Exchequer put it, also in 1864 regarding poverty and life for the poor or those on the borderline: "[life is] in nine cases out of ten but a struggle of existence!"

As was reported in the Sixth Report on Public Health, many workers were paid: "just sufficient to avert starvation diseases"

And where are we today?

You go to work, get paid, pay your bills, and by the end of the month have nothing left so you HAVE to go to work again next month.

We might have shiny toys and ipads etc to distract us, but we are paid just enough to avoid starvation & illness (or rather we are taxed and overcharged by corporations just enough to make sure we have enough left to eat, somewhere to stay, and to be able to afford to travel to work, but little more), and life is still a struggle for existence for many people.

Are we much better off?

You'd think we would be, after all we did somewhere in between get the vote, but all they've done is rig the political system, the rich still run it all for their and their friends benefits, and we continue to work our whole lives with not much to show for it.

And to make sure we all stay in our places and don't wake up to the fact that we're all being exploited, we have the pot stirrers dividing and conquering us all by highlighting our differences and stoking the flames of anger at perceived iniquities, so that we all keep fighting each other instead of fighting those who run the corrupt system and maintain the unfair status quo that we call our society.

We need a new fight, lets drop Racism and replace it with Richism.

a reply to: Power_Semi

Furthermore I conclude that the reason people fall for it is because they are ill educated about the truth of the past - they believe that racism is a major problem that needs tackling because "white people took advantage of black people by making them slaves."

Indeed, and never mind the fact that those unfortunate souls were actually sold into said slavery by their very own people. You do have a very valid point and I thank you for putting the correct history out there...the fact is that most of the racial unrest, in the States anyway, is largely based on ignorance...by people of all races.

It's like that game called "Telephone"; ever played it? A group of people sit in a circle and one person whispers a sentence very quickly in their neighbor's ear. That person in turn, takes whatever they heard (no repeating or clarification, just exactly what their ears heard) and whispers it to their neighbor, and so on and so on, until it gets to the last person who then says what they heard out loud to the group. Invariably, it does not even remotely resemble what the original sentence actually was.

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

So maybe, just maybe hundreds/thousands of years into the future humans will have finally kept having enough sex with each other that we are all the same color.

Don't want to break it to ya bud but... we're all pink on the inside. Any physical differences are caused by humans adapting to their environment. The only reason we have "black" people is due to the geographical location. If a "white" family moves down to Africa, and only breeds with other "white" families, they too, over time, will turn "black". It's the human way of evolving to the extreme sun exposure in that area.

So no. There will never be a standardized colour within the human race.

a reply to: mahatche

I think it's a combination of ignorance and being raised that way.

So then who was the first to teach their kids this since people are so adamant that its a learned behavior? Did they just wake up one day and say, "Hmmm, I think I'll teach my kids to be racist now."

If one black guy robbed your mom, yeah it would be stupid to hate all black guys for that. But what if you see the very same behaviors repeated over and over by people of the same skin color? Not just to your family, but to those around you also? You just might adopt some "racist" views then.

It does'nt mean that you're going to suddenly hate your black friends or whatever. It just means that maybe you start to realize that some of the stereotypes are true. I realize it is very "racist" for me to say that all black folks like watermelon but I've worked at a fruit stand selling watermelons on the side of the road.....and I know exactly what skin color 90 percent of the people who bought them were. It would be easy to come to the conclusion that this stereotype is true.

I find that people who don't understand this usually are white folks that have lived around nothing but white folks with maybe a "black friend" here and there so they can feel like they aren't "racist".

a reply to: Cancerwarrior

I feel like you lived in a predominantly black population if 90% of your watermelon sales are from the negro populace. I love my water-mellawn.

Humans are human, we share the same thought process. Consider the body a computer; it's the brain (the person in front of the keyboard) that tells it what to, and how.

For every black man stealing, there's a white one stealing somewhere.

a reply to: 0bservant

Don't want to break it to ya bud but... we're all pink on the inside.

Gee ya don't say, show me where did I say differently?

If a "white" family moves down to Africa, and only breeds with other "white" families, they too, over time, will turn "black". It's the human way of evolving to the extreme sun exposure in that area.

I spoke this figuratively, but since you want to interpret it literally... What if the white families that move to africa put on sunblock to prevent melanoma? Even black people can get sunburns and melanoma. Or if they cover up before going out into the sun (which is believed to be how white people evolved anyway.) Gone are the days where humans stay isolated in one area for millions of years to develop traits that match their environment. Thanks to our modern age transportation and technology are going to be major players in the way human beings evolve from now on.