Why do some view my "Russian Weakness" thread as me giving tacit support to western strategic poli

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posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:21 AM
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This is simply untrue.

My thread about Russian economic weakness is to counteract the hideous propaganda coming from the Russian state news channels like RT.

Russia is an economically weak state in which 110 billionaires control 35% of GDP.
So the top 0.000001% control >35% of GDP.

The state is wholly reliant on export revenues for its own revenue, hence if sanctions hit they cannot make up the lost revenue by increasing taxes, they cannot boost domestic consumption either due to most people being abjectly poor.

THE ACT OF POINTING THESE FACTS OUT DOES NOT IMPLY MY TACIT SUPPORT FOR WESTERN POLICY

Yet some deride me as a shill, without even considering I may have many views which run contradictory to western policy, which I do.

I suggest many of the people on here are highly reactionary, viewing things as black or white.

Western or Russian. Simply untrue, the world is infinite shades of grey neither black or white, don't limit yourself to that type of thinking, else you will never see the true picture.

The act of pointing out the weakness and posturing of Putin does not imply my support for the west or support for the EU (I am as big a euro-skeptic as any).

So yes, please, don't be reactionary and judge a book by its cover, simply because it presents new information which questions what you thought was the truth. Integrate that information into your thought process and form a new reality, ignoring factual information never got anyone anywhere.
edit on 11-5-2014 by rusblued9217 because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-5-2014 by rusblued9217 because: title typo




posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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I read your thread but I think it's a one sided story to make Russia look week . Kind of what a school yard bully does to get the other kids to join in ...You should make a thread to show the mountain of debt the west has on their books , lol as if that was possible and if it mattered because the wests currency is a fiat .Not really rich or poor just messed up .. a reply to: rusblued9217



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

The west in debt up to its heels, the difference is in the western economies there is far more evenly spread wealth (with the exception of america) and the state generates revenue by taxation of citizens income.

In Russia the tiny elite own almost all wealth, hence domestic consumption is very weak compared to what it could be should wealth be more evenly distributed.

This means that the Russian economy is far weaker, regardless of debt levels.
The state is too over-reliant on export revenues, and hence very susceptible to sanctions.

I am not claiming the west is not weakened at the moment, this is very true.
But Russia is not strong, it is highly unstable and only appears strong at the moment because oil and commodities are high.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: rusblued9217

Worry about your accuracy and integrity. That's what you control.

Worrying about what other people believe and write is a waste of life.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

I know, I find it amusing that people choose to ignore facts and believe in their opinions over fact.

It's just frustrating when i'm trying to introduce people to new information and people reject it outright, as though I made it all up!

Nevermind, I know the facts.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: rusblued9217

Well here's the thing what you are saying is true in a sense. But it's also not true. Firstly, clearly defining strength versus weakness is important. You can play cards with 50 dollars against a millionaire and take all his money if you play your cards right. The us still runs the wests economies through its citizen consumers. America has been scientifically categorized as an oligarchy by many political science experts. Our wealth distribution in the us is headed towards Russia's.

China needs oil. Russia has oil. Russia trades with china not with western currency. Russia is now training military with china. Those two joining forces is definitely not weak. It's the opposite. So your posts may be true today economically but the forcasts of future economic growth and strategic alliances does not support your thread.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: rusblued9217
Wow...You've got the wrong idea about how we assimilate the info by saying you were trying "to counteract the hideous propaganda coming from the Russian state news...."

You are mistaken to think that is how we get our opinions. And if that's what you think...is we believe published, filmed and written "propaganda" created by them...then you are way off-base. We do not.

It appears to you we are accepting what the Russians feed us. We do not. We never have, and we wont anytime soon. If you thought youre trying to counteract propaganda by them...you need to research more about us.

We don't base anything on propaganda, and in fact? It may be you who has been "convinced" we accept what we read as fact. We don't. Especially from them. You didn't realize that?

Why would you think we believe and formulate opinions based on the crap we know is crap that "Mother Russia" has always fed us???



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: Luthierbrown

Yes but when a state is solely reliant on oil export revenues for its income it is very highly exposed to shifts in price level.

I do not disagree that the US is an oligarchy, this is very true.
But it is a far larger, more diversified and stronger oligarchy than Russia.

But as China grows in strength it will challenge Russia more and more, and the relationship will shift to a rivalry instead of cooperation. Those vast resource rich lands of eastern Siberia look very tasty to the Chinese superpower we see emerging, especially considering they were Annexed by Russia from China in 1860.

Also the Russian gas is far more expensive to extract than in other states due to its very northerly remote location, hence the margins they make on every cubic meter they sell are smaller than in other countries.

China sees Africa as its future oil supplier, it can be controlled far more effectively than imports from Russia and the Chinese get better prices.

It cannot be forgotten Russia is very reliant on western technology to extract much of its NG/Oil so sectoral sanctions will hit them hard, causing an external shock, probably inducing recession. The Russian state subsidizes many poor regions to keep them happy, and if the state cannot afford to make these subsidies due to lack of funds then discontentment will grow rapidly.

Putin is playing a dangerous game, yes he may win. But the odds are stacked against him.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 11:46 AM
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Russia can still go into space I don't think getting gas or oil out the ground will
Be a big problem for them with no western help

Putin playing a dangerous game, you mean his hockey game on the Russian invade Ukraine page?

West are playing the dangerous game, don't try and deceive us



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: rusblued9217
It's your opinion that China will challenge Russia. That is definitely not a fact nor is there any implication that will happen anytime soon. In fact the opposite is true. They are combining forces and economies more and more. Africa is being developed by the Chinese but can not get there oil from Africa soley nor anytime soon.

Why is Russia playing a dangerous game? They get equipment from china and Germany. Germany needs Russia right now. Soon they won't and that is just as dangerous to Russia.

Your thread is very good don't get me wrong but you fail to see what's going on. China, Russia, parts of the Middle East and Southeast Asia are forming an alliance to get rid of the western dependancy. The west knows this and are also trying to stop it.

Russia and China really only has this move now before the west restructures it's oil and energy sectors.

The us has major problems with its economy and the danger there is that it drags down Europe when it goes.

The other presumption you make is that Russia cares if it's people suffer. Historically they don't.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: Luthierbrown

a reply to: Luthierbrown

Who are the buyers of the VAST MAJORITY of Asian produced goods?

What are the biggest consumer markets on earth?

the US & and the EU.

The west's age as the sole hegemonic power is over no doubt.

However the regions with the biggest purchasing power and highest median income levels will be Europe and North america + Japan, Korea and Australia/NZ for at least the next 50 years.

Yes the Net wealth of China is great, but the Chinese economy is on the brink of a major correction.
Have you seen the asset bubble which exists there now?
Have you seen the vast cities built on debt which are uninhabited?

China has so many structural problems and corruption problems. I do not doubt that it will be and nearly is the most powerful nation on earth, however the average Chinese person or Russian person for that matter will be substantially poorer than the average European or North american for a long time.

Hence these will remain the largest consumer markets & also the dominant forces with regard to scientific research. What I think is a great move is shifting the European economies to knowledge economies, this is the only way we can retain our high income status by focusing on what we do best, science.

I think the US has a lot more problems than Europe, I do worry that the US will implode in the near future, however its people will still be richer than then Chinese.

The thing is, as soon us Europeans crack feasible fusion technology, then hydrocarbon wealth will be obsolete, this will occur within the next 15-30 years.

The future is 100 science, not resource extraction economies, the nations who succeed are the ones which realise this!

China have realized this, but Russia have not, they still plough all resources into resource extraction (the ones which arent embezzled) and neglect their education system which is a massive mistake, they will rue this in good time.

Education is the key to future economic growth, the nations which have the most ingenious scientists will be the richest and most prosperous. And when the technology of those nations reaches a certain point it will become near impossible for countries which neglected education to catch up, this is the reality.



As we can see from this data regarding scientific papers published, the Russians still lag WAY behind the west, Whereas China is second top. A misjudgment by the Russians



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: rusblued9217

Here is the problem and fault with your argument. It is assuming that the Chinese or Russian government cares about the peoples standard of living. Power has nothing to do with that.

You also haven't addressed that the Chinese completely support Russia on Ukraine and have been increasing their joint military exercises as well as massive pipeline deals in Siberia.

China and Russia could devastate the rest of the world with economic and military force.
Would their people suffer yes. Do these governments care? No.
In fact the people of these countries are already used to fending for themselves.

Americans and Europeans would not handle food lines and rationing if a war does in fact break out.

If Europeans and Americans were forced to manufacture their own goods it would be a major problem.

In terms of strength I would say its pretty even.

Your argument is only valid if you think Russia and China don't find the common citizen expendable.

If you take that aspect away. It's actually logically and rationally Russia and China that could devastate the west since it's people and the elected government rely on the comfort and stability of the countries people. China and Russia could care less, and in most cases it's citizens already have very little so you can't take more away.


You can show all the graphs in the world but, if your theory has flaws you have to reevaluate your premiss in the argument.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: rusblued9217

I personally liked your thread a whole lot. But I didn't stick around to see its completion as I figured people would call you a shill, and not see the real worth of your thread. Trust me, I've had my run of controversial threads, so I know how disheartening it can be. I think that it's pretty easy to spot a shill, so anybody who says that you are is not a critical thinker. Hint: A good majority of shills don't have avatars.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: rusblued9217

The anti Western shills here will never let you express any opinion that goes against their political ideology without adding in how messed up the west is. Even if it isn't about East vs. West as your thread was. You can show any proof and it won't matter. It's like trying to reason with a drunk. They will listen, but then ignore everything you have said. I myself am an American. I read all the threads people start even if the subject is an anti west thread. Sometimes I agree with what is said and I have given stars for those. (The ones that use RT for their facts source don't carry as much weight with me but to each his own.) You can spend hours looking up some information to back up your opinions and you will just be wasting your time with them because they won't pay any attention to it or will state that it's western propaganda. It's hard to get the real story sometimes and what you believe I guess depends on your own attitudes too. So please keep posting the facts like you did in that excellent thread you wrote. Those of us who want to find the real truth on a subject appreciate it. You did not do anything wrong and presented a well thought out and factual thread with facts to back up what you said. To the people that stated it was all one sided, I guess they didn't read what the thread was about. You weren't stating that one side was better than the other. You were just presenting some facts on the economy of Russia. If more people would do this on our site here, it would be of a higher quality. Thank you for taking the time to educate those of us here that are truth seekers! To all the people who will argue with your facts, I say take the time to show your own facts about why they feel the thread wasn't truthful. You will find that many will not bother to waste their time looking for their facts. Apparently we are just all to believe whatever they believe because they said so. It's like the UFO threads. Photo's or it didn't happen! So to them I say Facts or it's just an opinion!



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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Facepalm

It really is getting frustrating

People need to understand that both Russia and China rely on western consumer demand... And that both Russia and China are the top 1 & 2 country's in the world for inequality, I think this shows the true extent of the vast corruption

A Russian Chinese gas and oil deal only works for as long as the west prop china up to push the demand for Russian gas & oil.. Making the deal work

China's manufacturing has contracted and shrunk each year... This is evident enough that both Russia after sanctions and china are headed for a crash and are easy manipulated and controlled

Good luck
edit on 11-5-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: [post=17910479]TritonTaranis[/post

Face palm.

Apparently people don't understand that the consumer price index is ruled by cheap goods from china. If that wasn't possible then inflation cost of durable goods would put us in Russia's wealth distribution standards. A completely us made automobile would be 100,000 for a compact.

It goes both ways.



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: brazenalderpadrescorpio
Let me put that on my shill check list so I can learn how to have strawman arguments.

You can can send implied messages all you want it won't hurt my feelings.
I don't have an avatar so I am a shill of course.

However, I am understanding of philosophy, ethics, and anthropology. I can argue civil and make logical points without distracted baseless arguments made from fear, patriotism, ethnocentrism, or bigotry.

There is an emic and etic perspective. Without it you may as well be blind.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: Luthierbrown

Please don't over-generalize my statements. I wasn't speaking in absolute terms. I clearly said a good majority, not all of them do not have avatars. You obviously skimmed over my post (as most people do). Besides, that situation of not having an avatar doesn't exist in a vacuum. Another characteristic is randomly creating threads on one main topic, and not responding to your replies. These characteristics co-occur.





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