It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
We have to be careful, as Correlation does not equal causation.
Homicides during first-episode psychosis occurred at a rate of 1.59 homicides per 1000 (95% CI = 1.06-2.40), equivalent to 1 in 629 presentations. The annual rate of homicide after treatment for psychosis was 0.11 homicides per 1000 patients (95% CI = 0.07-0.16), equivalent to 1 homicide in 9090 patients with schizophrenia per year.
Similar studies in the United States using health management organization and Medicaid data came to the same conclusion, he said, whereas a study among the elderly in Ontario, Canada did find an increased suicidality with SSRIs. This, however, was also only the case in the first 90 days. Any risk of suicidal ideation or attempts usually occurs when patients first start the medication, so patients should be monitored closely for the first 3 months, Dr. Lam said. In fact, he referred to a recent 2006 study that showed the highest risk of suicide is seen in the period just before starting medication.
Fluoxetine and venlafaxine decreased suicidal thoughts and behavior for adult and geriatric patients. This protective effect is mediated by decreases in depressive symptoms with treatment. For youths, no significant effects of treatment on suicidal thoughts and behavior were found, although depression responded to treatment. No evidence of increased suicide risk was observed in youths receiving active medication.
You are excluding the facts that most of the mass killings we are discussing are KIDS,or are young,you are referencing in some cases people who are older where the diseases have evolved,in the youth we are talking about people who DEFINATELY have not evolved into later phases of illness.
Lets be clear that Adults who have been alive long enough to project late cycle symptoms are not in the same group as young people who have not even been alive enough for the diseases to evolve in them
The body also trys to balance itself, so if you give it to much Good thought juice for lack of a better term ,more than it wants,eventually it will OVERPRODUCE bad thought juice,maybe this is what is happening,the mind and body are rejecting the medications impacts the only way they know how,by going to battle with the foreign force,in this case drugs which increase production of one or more of the brains key components
originally posted by: Mianeye
I have said this in another thread before.
These drugs are taken all over the world not just in the US, so connecting them to shootings or killing sprees should happen everywhere in the same rate as in the US, that is not happening.
So no, there are no sideeffect from these drugs that causes people to go on a killing spree but most likely these shooters are allready lost and therefore taking the drugs.
originally posted by: Mianeye
a reply to: StallionDuck
But as it's not a problem in other countrys as there are no killing sprees like in the US the problem isen't the drugs, it's the person and his ability to get a weapon of choise, in these cases a gun, now go figure where the problem really is
originally posted by: yorkshirelad
a reply to: benrl
So the person who commits a mass shooting is not a 100% law abiding calm citizen. Well what a freaking suprise DUH!!!
The difference between the US and over here in the UK is that the people who go off the rails don't have access to guns.
originally posted by: StallionDuck
originally posted by: poiSoN466
originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: Mianeye
I dunno. I would think that it's availability that makes it much easier.
Person contemplates suicide... Knows where a knife is. Decides to take out as many as possible with him because of the hate building from the drugs or the withdrawls... Can't find a gun... Slits wrist.
I don't think weapons are really that easy to come by. Weapons like guns that is. Here.. Everyone has one or knows someone with multiples. That parts really easy.
So your solution is for everybody that has a suicidal thought, you stick them in a room with padded walls instead of helping them? I'm not really sure disarmament is the solution here.
Ehm... Where did you pull that from my response? I said nothing of the sort what so ever... troll much?
originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
Is it not possible that this is a coincidence? Let me explain. Obviously if they were taking medication then there was already some problem. So couldn't it be argued that the underlying condition was already present, and the person could have done something just as bad regardless of being on the medication? Perhaps the similarities in the drugs being administered points to their underlying conditions being somewhat similar, and thus treated in the same manner. But, perhaps the problems were larger than they first appeared.
I am not saying this is the answer, rather I am proposing the possibility. I do believe that one of the big differences in society today and society 50 years ago has to do with the mass prescribing of new "mood stabilizing" drugs, among other types as well. It should probably scare people to learn that doctors really don't know how most of these medications actually work, the ones affecting the chemistry of the brain I mean. They can observe what the medication does to the patients in a study or something, but as far as "why" the medication works, an explanation is often lacking.
Then there is the possibility that certain people, due to a certain biological condition, cannot tolerate certain medications. I've been on Zoloft for something like 7 years or so, and have never had any problems. And that goes for the majority as well. So it is hard to make a case that the medications are doing it when the majority of those taking the medicine don't have such problems.
originally posted by: eloheim
Did you know?!:
The last 20 massive fires in the U.S. have ALL been associated with..FIRE FIGHTERS! And believe it or not, there is a direct correlation--the bigger the fire, the more fire fighters are found there!
Ergo--fire fighters must be a main cause of fires, right?
Sorry but I'm sure you get the point I'm making that perhaps people who commit these horrible acts all had severe mental illnesses, which is of course why they were being trying to be treated for them.
originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
I wouldn't be quick to come to a conclusion...
First...since people who commit mass shootings are "psychologically not all there" anyway, I am not surprised that many of them were on some kind of medication, seeing that 80% of Americans take them anyway.
Are those drugs really CAUSING them to commit those crimes, or is this just an excuse? The killer sitting in prison now and blaming SSRIs for him committing the killings....understand that I am not necessarily buying that.
Also...for those criminals who survived (didn't kill themselves) and then later on got a lawyer who defended them..I can see "the bad drugs" being an excellent excuse ANY lawyer will jump on right away in their defenses.
Don't get me wrong, I am very much against those drugs. I have seen how European doctors strongly refuse to prescribe meds like Paxil etc....drugs which American doctors literally hand out like candy since they're seen like "cure-them-all" pills for all kinds of "conditions". But I don't buy they're the primary cause why people commit shootings.