Russia's Putin outlaws denial of Nazi crimes

Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law on Monday making the denial of Nazi crimes and distortion of the Soviet Union's role in the World War Two a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail.

The law, described by critics as an attempt to curb freedom of expression to appease conservative Russians, the ex-KGB spy's main support base, also criminalizes the public desecration of war memorials.

Russia's Putin outlaws denial of Nazi crimes

To be fair.

The death tolls from WW2

Soviet Union


24,000,000


United Kingdom

450,700

United States


418,500

It seems WW2 is a rallying point for Russia in general, and has been used recently in their own media against them, questioning the need to hold Stalingrad during the war, that it would of been better to surrender.

a Thought that seems to be against the current Agenda.

The new law would ban "wittingly spreading false information about the activity of the USSR during the years of World War Two".

Russian officials and media have raised the specter of Nazi Germany repeatedly during Moscow's confrontation with the West over Ukraine, calling the overthrow of a Russian-allied president in February a coup carried out in part by "neo-Nazi" forces.

The Russians, Take the comparison to the NAZI's very seriously it would seem.

But taken as a whole, seems to be apart of a larger Censorship movement in Russia, that seeks to squelch opposition that question the administration.

Separately on Monday, Putin signed a law imposing fines for the use of expletives on television, radio and in films shown in theatres. Music and movies containing foul language will have to have a warning on the label, state-run RIA news agency said.

Putin also signed a law imposing stricter rules on bloggers, which opponents say is aimed at suppressing criticism on the Internet.

Any attempt to crush free speech, no matter how popular or un-poplular, should be fought by any free thinking people.

It must be noted as well, The comparison is very much like China's view of Japan from the war.

Where up to as many as 50 mil Chinese may have died, so many that good counts can't be made.

To this Day, much of the animosity and contention between China and Japan stems from the Japanese actions during the War.

All of these international conflicts have roots that go deeper and farther back than most media is even willing to analyze.

this is true.

Also with that law binding false information, i think that should show more transparency of the passed during WW2.

The last part sounds kinda sketechy but over all. I could see that as a problem for conspiracy sites debating theories as well as the news over there. Anyone saying anything about russians and nazis without paying attention to what they say on tv could wind up in jail.

Thanks for sharing.

a reply to: benrl

From the article;

Russian officials and media have raised the specter of Nazi Germany repeatedly during Moscow's confrontation with the West over Ukraine, calling the overthrow of a Russian-allied president in February a coup carried out in part by "neo-Nazi" forces.

I think it's fair to say that the NeoNazis are indeed at least in charge of a portion of the Ukraine government at this point. If I was Russian I would not want them right on my border either, especially backed by the American neocons bent on global domination.

As far as the law, not our issue. That's up to the Russians to work out.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
this is true.

Also with that law binding false information, i think that should show more transparency of the passed during WW2.

The last part sounds kinda sketechy but over all. I could see that as a problem for conspiracy sites debating theories as well as the news over there. Anyone saying anything about russians and nazis without paying attention to what they say on tv could wind up in jail.

Thanks for sharing.

On some level, I would love a truth in Media law here in the states.

But that is a slippery slope that could easily lead to censorship of unpopular thought.

In this video, Stephen Cohen comments how this Crisis, if miss handled by the west could actually suppress the gains maid in Democracy in Russia.




It would seem, with the passage of these laws, to be correct.

I don't agree with censorship, but to give credit where it is due...Russia put up an impressive resistance against the Nazis. Hitler may well have won the war without the big ol' can of Russian whoop ass his army ate.

a reply to: benrl

This should bring relief to the 27k Polish the Soviet Union murdered and then dumped into mass graves in the Katyn Forest.

War crime perpetrated by the Soviet NKVD... the predecessor to the KGB.... Putins former employer and current power base.

Putin really needs to go.

Source

Calculating the number of victims

Before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, researchers who attempted to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million.[101] After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of 799,455 executions 1921–53,[102] around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – with a total of about 2.9 million officially recorded victims in these categories.[103]


The official Soviet archival records do not contain comprehensive figures for some categories of victims, such as those of ethnic deportations or of German population transfers in the aftermath of World War II.[104] Eric D. Weitz wrote, "By 1948, according to Nicolas Werth, the mortality rate of the 600,000 people deported from the Caucasus between 1943 and 1944 had reached 25%."[105][106] Other notable exclusions from NKVD data on repression deaths include the Katyn massacre, other killings in the newly occupied areas, and the mass shootings of Red Army personnel (deserters and so-called deserters) in 1941. The Soviets executed 158,000 soldiers for desertion during the war,[107] and the "blocking detachments" of the NKVD shot thousands more.[108] Also, the official statistics on Gulag mortality exclude deaths of prisoners taking place shortly after their release but which resulted from the harsh treatment in the camps.[109] Some historians also believe that the official archival figures of the categories that were recorded by Soviet authorities are unreliable and incomplete.[110][111] In addition to failures regarding comprehensive recordings, as one additional example, Robert Gellately and Simon Sebag Montefiore argue that the many suspects beaten and tortured to death while in "investigative custody" were likely not to have been counted amongst the executed.[27][112]

Historians working after the Soviet Union's dissolution have estimated victim totals ranging from approximately 4 million to nearly 10 million, not including those who died in famines.[113][114][115] Russian writer Vadim Erlikman, for example, makes the following estimates: executions, 1.5 million; gulags, 5 million; deportations, 1.7 million out of 7.5 million deported; and POWs and German civilians, 1 million – a total of about 9 million victims of repression.[116]

Some have also included the deaths of 6 to 8 million people in the 1932–1933 famine among the victims of Stalin's repression. This categorization is controversial however, as historians differ as to whether the famine was a deliberate part of the campaign of repression against kulaks and others,[58][117][118][119][120] or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization.[74][121][122]

Accordingly, if famine victims are included, a minimum of around 10 million deaths—6 million from famine and 4 million from other causes—are attributable to the regime,[123] with a number of recent historians suggesting a likely total of around 20 million, citing much higher victim totals from executions, Gulag camps, deportations and other causes.[124][125][126][127][128][129][130] Adding 6–8 million famine victims to Erlikman's estimates above, for example, would yield a total of between 15 and 17 million victims. Researcher Robert Conquest, meanwhile, has revised his original estimate of up to 30 million victims down to 20 million.[131] In his most recent edition of The Great Terror (2007), Conquest states that while exact numbers may never be known with complete certainty, the various terror campaigns launched by the Soviet government claimed no fewer than 15 million lives.[132] RJ Rummel maintains that the earlier higher victim total estimates are correct, although he includes those killed by the Soviet government in other Eastern European countries as well.[133][134]

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: benrl

This should bring relief to the 27k Polish the Soviet Union murdered and then dumped into mass graves in the Katyn Forest.

War crime perpetrated by the Soviet NKVD... the predecessor to the KGB.

Putin really needs to go.

How about when the US switch from strategic bombing to General Curtis Lemays terror bombing in mass of Cities?

Do we want to start calling out all war crimes now?

Or is history just a set of lies agreed upon and propagated by the victor, and war is something that NO ONE should march to lightly?

a reply to: benrl

Or the 80k civilians Japan murdered in the Philippines.

If you want to go down that road we can... Since this is about Russia / Soviet Union and Putin I thought my post was appropriate. Even more so since I feel this is a way for Putin to rewrite history.

The UK would have been annihilated if Russia wasn't there to take the brunt of the Nazi war machine.
The Russians suffered through WW2 more than most, they fought for their lives, then they fought for revenge and pushed the nazi's all the way to Berlin.

The Americans sat and watched for a long time, far too long in my opinion.

Then, when the UK was desperate with its back against the walls they still made the UK pay a significant sum before they'd send them ships and materials.

The world owes Russia for its fight against the Nazi's!

Putin needs to stay....

he is doing a great job....

go get them neo-nazis Vlad...

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: benrl

Or the 80k civilians Japan murdered in the Philippines.

If you want to go down that road we can... Since this is about Russia / Soviet Union and Putin I thought my post was appropriate. Even more so since I feel this is a way for Putin to rewrite history.

We can, and should, every time we contemplate war.

To often, we allow the distance technology allows, to separate us from what it means to wage war.

I wish, every senator, Every citizen, would stop and ponder what waging war truly means.

It means, Fathers, Mothers, will lose their children.

It is not something that should be undertaken on WHIM, or for Financial reasons.

Americans, and the world at large should remember what the current thinking brings.

originally posted by: benrl
In this video, Stephen Cohen comments how this Crisis, if miss handled by the west could actually suppress the gains maid in Democracy in Russia.

I absolutely agree with Cohen on that.
Which is actually also what the anti-centralistic voices in our representatives of industry and commerce are saying here.
Economic sanctions as part of the confrontation with Russa have reversed decades of endeavours to promote free trade and openness, and the benefits of fair competition in an open society.
This strategy is so counterproductive.

I just wish Putin could be honest for once instead of using WWII propaganda to stir continued dissent. the goal of this law has nothing to do with history and everything to do with Ukraine.

Ukraine crisis: Moscow accuses Kiev of 'racism and glorifying Nazis'

Moscow accused Kiev of threatening peace in the region on Monday, and called on the international community to intensify efforts to end what it believes is an extremist show of “racism, xenophobia, ethnic intolerance, [and] the glorification of the Nazis" in the east of Ukraine.

As the death toll caused by fighting in eastern cities continued to rise, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry said in a statement, according to BBC News: “The alternative [to stepping up efforts] is fraught with such destructive consequences for Europe's peace, stability and democratic development that it is absolutely necessary to prevent it.”

Moscow’s call came as Ukrainian military pilots survived their plane being shot down near the pro-Russian town of Slovyansk, according to the Ukrainian Defence Ministry.

Click link for remainder of article.

This "law" is nothing more than self serving propaganda designed to be used against Ukraine. If Putin actually gave a fig about Nazi actions he would not continue to use those very actions to push his agenda.

Tell me - what is a denial of a Nazi crime based on the language for this law? This is another piece of groundwork being put in place for the South and East parts of Ukraine and Crimea. In this instance I doubt Russia will use the term deportation though. My guess it will be announced as mass arrests of Nazi / deniers.

exactly what Hitler did...
exactly what Stalin did...

a reply to: Xcathdra

dunno.. Ukraine welcomed the Nazi's in the 30's, initially they were against Russia then too.

If its good enough for the west to do and claim the moral high ground I have no issues with Russia doing it.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

The Soviet Union had an alliance with Nazi Germany up until 1938/1939. How did it work out for them? By the way Ukraine was a part of the Soviet Union in the late 1930's. Since Stalin ran the show it means Ukraine was Russia, which means what occurred in Ukraine occurred in Russia.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That seems like a completely different point. In the end it turned out great for Russia, they won the war and claimed all that land and became a major world power.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: Xcathdra

That seems like a completely different point. In the end it turned out great for Russia, they won the war and claimed all that land and became a major world power.

and not so well for the Germans and east European countries under Soviet occupation. That argument aside since I don't wanna drag this off topic. I get your point by the way I just don't think Putin's motives are genuine. To pass a law about denying Nazi crimes while portraying everyone not pro Russian in Ukraine as Nazis is a sign of what's coming down the road.

it brings me back to the law itself and what version of history is going to be used.

Also, I support laws like this when they are genuine. In this case I don't think it is. Also, with respect to the OP I don't wanna push this into an area the op did not intend so if he would let me know what parameters he wants I will work within them.

In the west it would be ten years in jail but anyway this is a big NO NO

I will not be told what I can and cannot talk about the number of jews killed during WWII when they ban scientists for looking at the so called death camps and the numbers went up from 2 million to 6 million. The numbers don't add up.

Mr Putin I thought was wiser than this and if people want to say that Elvis lives on the moon then let them be heard because the truth will be questioned and the correct answers found.

a reply to: benrl

Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law on Monday making the denial of Nazi crimes and distortion of the Soviet Union's role in the World War Two a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in jail.
- See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

In other words, telling the truth about Hitler and Stalin, the Katyn massacre, the Russian army's tendency towards rape and Stalin's cavalier attitude towards it will be rewarded with five years in jail.