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If it's crucial for our salvation, why doesn't god give us proof of his existence constantly?

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posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: Mammasawakenow
The point is faith he wants us to have faith. He's real and he loves you and wants to have a relationship with you today all you have to do is pray and ask him into your life and forgiveness of your sins
x


And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions. I mean, if you had an opportunity to patch things up with an estranged relative whom you loved more than even yourself, what would you stop at to make it happen? What would you give up to spend just five minutes with them, even if it didn't work out in the end? Just to tell them how you feel, knowing what the alternative is - namely, knowing that you had a chance and never even tried. That you loved someone so much and literally just sat by and let it slip through your fingers. Why? Because you're afraid? Or lazy? I'm not a god - that is to say, in any life but my own - but it seems to me that for someone so powerful and omnipotent, it's a small price to pay for reconciling with your child whom you supposedly love more than anything else. But I guess it's still too great a price. Which is odd, considering how compelling the stories have always made him sound.
edit on 23-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: adjensen


God loves you unconditionally and wants you to love him the same way, and providing hard evidence would force some who hate the very idea of God to "love" him.

Let's say that there is a girl that you are in love with, but who doesn't love you, doesn't even know that you exist. Should you do what you can to get her attention and fall in love with the real you? Or should you stalk her, kidnap her, and hold her hostage until she says that she loves you?


How would providing hard evidence "force" love? And in any case, God is not doing that. As for stalking, kidnapping, and holding souls hostage, well - that's what the extremist religions do. But there's still no hard evidence. It's all just people talking. So, why is God NOT doing what an omnipotent, omnipresent does to 'convince' people?

In my opinion, all we see around us, on Earth, in the sky, in space, and in each other is evidence of a Unity, a universe that works in sync. GOD isn't a "person", so your analogy doesn't work in my mind.

If there is a "GOD", a Creator, there is no evidence that we are 'loved creatures'. There is only evidence that we have active imaginations, and tend to see 'patterns' where things are actually pretty random. (What's that word?? For pattern recognition that is sometimes an illusion? Pareidolia?)

There is a fallen, decaying log in my yard. On the cut end, the 'hollow areas' look like a smiley face. If I look at it just right, I can see a line-"drawing" of my dog, who died, and whose favorite resting spot was very near where the log fell.
Is it the "Image of Megan"? Yes. Is it Megan? I don't know. I can think so, and I do think of her every time I look at it, but I can't KNOW it until it becomes animate and puts a wet nose in my hand - if that happens I will I believe it is she.

Honestly, if "GOD" is capable of behaving like a petulant, jealous, violent, unpredictable teenager...well, how many people love a petulant, jealous, violent, unpredictable teenager? Besides his mom? Or some dizzy girl whose hormones go haywire?

Who loves an angry old man who behaves like Fred Phelps? Possibly his hostage family, but fear does not equal love. Submission does not equal love, either.

edit on 4/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:04 AM
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originally posted by: Antipathy17
Yet the only reason you have any idea of his existence is from people... well known liars.

I believe in God via personal experience. I don't have 'faith' in God because religious texts say He exists. I've had direct personal experience that tells me He's real so I have KNOWLEDGE .. not FAITH. My situation is a bit different than most others ... I admit ....



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions.


I wish He would too. I know that He exists ... but I don't know why He does what He does. The bible says 'His ways aren't our ways' and that someday we'll understand why He does what He does. But I do wish He'd be more direct with His creation.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions.


I wish He would too. I know that He exists ... but I don't know why He does what He does. The bible says 'His ways aren't our ways' and that someday we'll understand why He does what He does. But I do wish He'd be more direct with His creation.


I could do and say the same exact thing about a banana.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions.
How do you know that this hasn't already happened but in an anonymous way?
I think supernatural things happen all the time but we don't usually realize it at the time.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:30 AM
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originally posted by: adjensen
God loves you unconditionally and wants you to love him the same way, and providing hard evidence would force some who hate the very idea of God to "love" him.

Let's say that there is a girl that you are in love with, but who doesn't love you, doesn't even know that you exist. Should you do what you can to get her attention and fall in love with the real you? Or should you stalk her, kidnap her, and hold her hostage until she says that she loves you?


Adjensen, I love your posts.




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

In my opinion, all we see around us, on Earth, in the sky, in space, and in each other is evidence of a Unity, a universe that works in sync. GOD isn't a "person", . . .
Maybe the reality of the universe is a horrible mess, If we could see it in a large perspective.
I think of God as operating in the universe but from that long term, all encompassing perspective, knowing it isn't all that it should be, and having only so much leeway as to doing anything about it.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:32 AM
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a reply to: PsychoEmperor


I'd say hi and invite her out for a cup of coffee and let her get to know me…

Which is what God does, through the church.


Of course, if I'm "in love" with someone who doesn't know I exist, I'd have to question my sanity.

Why? Unconditional love is just that -- love without conditions, even whether the other person acknowledges your existence.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


How would providing hard evidence "force" love?

If you knew, for a fact, that the Christian God existed, would you love him for his sake, or would you "love" him because you're afraid of the consequences of not loving him?

That's one of the reasons that I really dislike Evangelicals who preach hellfire and damnation -- God wants you to love him unconditionally, not because you're afraid not to.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


Maybe the reality of the universe is a horrible mess, If we could see it in a large perspective.
I think of God as operating in the universe but from that long term, all encompassing perspective, knowing it isn't all that it should be, and having only so much leeway as to doing anything about it.

I like that thinking.

Yes, it really is rather 'chaotic' from the larger perspective - things exploding, growing, zooming about, bashing into other things....from our point of view it is 'miraculous' that we are here at all. But, here we are, all the same. And "God" may be operating, but certainly not in the best interest of 'us' in particular.

It just is what it is.
I saw your earlier post: "Not omnipotent."
Do you agree that GOD is not a 'person', then?



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

I believe in God via personal experience. I don't have 'faith' in God because religious texts say He exists. I've had direct personal experience that tells me He's real so I have KNOWLEDGE .. not FAITH. My situation is a bit different than most others ... I admit ....
I think Faith in the biblical sense is really doing what seems is right, rather than a feeling or something that is a virtue in itself.
So Knowing, as you say you do, I don't think detracts in any way because you still have the option to do nothing about it.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: adjensen

-- God wants you to love him unconditionally, not because you're afraid not to.
1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.
(2011 NIV)
There is no such thing as unconditional love.
Even Israel in the Bible was said to be loved for the sake of the original "Israel" who was Jacob, who himself had to meet conditions.
It is true that God sends rain to the wicked as well as the good, but that is being just, and not out of love.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:50 AM
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a reply to: adjensen


If you knew, for a fact, that the Christian God existed, would you love him for his sake, or would you "love" him because you're afraid of the consequences of not loving him?

I had a boyfriend like that once. It wasn't until I'd known him for years that I figured out that he was an "ass" who had conned me and taken advantage of my blind devotion to him.

Love is blind, you know.

But as for the Christian God, if I knew for a fact he existed and that the stories about him are true, I'd maybe "say" I loved him, but how could I really do so?? That is clearly a coerced 'affection', like a tyrant who demands homage.

And if this God can see into your heart, what good would it do to fake it? It'd be like having a lie detector test - or torture device - put on you and being asked 'do you think that guy is better than me?' Well, if I do, then what?

Here's the thing with the anthropomorphization of God (for those unfamilar with the word; it means attributing human qualities to non-human things) -- he's not a nice guy. And unconditional love does not include threats of eternal torture or the chance of being disowned. If God is a 'person', and supposedly "Our Father" - well, he's a crap parent. Abusive, neglectful, and scary if he's around - absentee if he's not. Crap parenting all the way.

I agree with you about the hellfire preaching - it's so destructive. It doesn't build up a person, it tears them down with neverending uncertainty of being "good enough". Crap love. Not unconditional love. Brutality and control.

No thanks.
If it was my dad, I'd run away. If it was my boyfriend or husband, I'd break up with him. Or throw him out. Or both. All three. Who needs that kind of treatment? NO ONE likes to be yelled at, written up, shamed, humiliated, hurt. Some don't mind being bossed around, but, well.....

yeah NO. God isn't a person, nor a parent, nor a caring 'shepherd.' That's the best I can come up with.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Do you agree that GOD is not a 'person', then?
Oops, I forgot to reply to that part, with my cat walking on my keyboard and stuff.
I think the material universe is uncaring and unfeeling.
I think God is really more like a general term for a complex of individual persons who are like us but not encumbered by their existence being fused with the material.
That is not to say that there is anything wrong with being tied to the material as we are, but pointing out the dissimilarity.

edit on 23-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: AfterInfinity

And all I ask is that he come down from his mighty throne, have a cup of coffee with me, and spend a few hours answering my questions.
How do you know that this hasn't already happened but in an anonymous way?
I think supernatural things happen all the time but we don't usually realize it at the time.



Because if he didn't care enough to be honest with me about who he was, then I don't care to know him anyway. I don't like double standards, and I definitely don't like being lied to. And a lie by omission is still a lie.
edit on 23-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


Oops, I forgot to reply to that part, with my cat walking on my keyboard and stuff.

LOL!! Yeah, my cat (a black one
) LOVES to walk on my keyboard or lie on my arms while I'm at my puter.
Wonder if it's a 'sign'? You know how those familiars can be - warding off evil for ya...and they send pretty clear messages.



edit on 4/23/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Because if he didn't care enough to be honest with me about who he was, then I don't care to know him anyway. I don't like double standards, and I definitely don't like being lied to. And a lie by omission is still a lie.
Maybe saying "I'm God" would be too inaccurate of a description to be strictly honest.
What is really out there I would imagine defies human description.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: igor12675
a reply to: Prezbo369

Hi Prezbo have you actually read the bible?


Hi igor

Yes I have, from cover to cover.........are you asking this question because I mentioned unicorns?



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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Anything or anyone that wants people who've never met them, or even have no idea of their existence......to love them unconditionally........is insane.



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