"Because I Said So!"

So many times lately I have seen this. And quite often from newer members to boot. Not all, but it seems to be trending IMO.

A topic is started that is seen as controversial and/or conspiratorial. The author lists a quote or two, a link and a personal "IMO" piece. Only to be met with:

"Stop fear mongering" "It isn't so" "It'll never happen" "It never happened" "You're an idiot for believing this" "Why post such nonsense" "You are wrong" (All taken from threads BTW)

Ok, I get it. You can't win them all but if a poster has at least put up video, sources, a well laid out theory etc, shouldn't a reply at least have the same if in disagreement even if only out of respect? A snippet of factual evidence or support of the opposite stance?

And many times the reply is stated as if it's fact, no argument, no discussion needed. One line or two and that's it. As if the conversation/debate is over because "I say this and I'm correct because I said so...move along".

If the response was along the lines of "This is what I think" or at the end a simple "IMO" it would be seen as at least open to discussion. But too many times lately it's not that way at all.

I have seen some veterans come back with a simple response to these posters such as "It's really amazing that you know this as FACT seeing as you leave no doubt as to your statement. Please provide sources so we can all be enlightened by your brilliance" I have to admit that I use this approach often,,,

So in closing,

1. If you're a troll you're not very accomplished because we see you. Change it up a little because quite frankly it's not even frustrating anymore, just boring. And you'll probably lose your job soon if you don't get better at it.

2. If you are truly entering the fray and ready for discussion/debate that's fantastic! But remember to back it up a little because otherwise there's no substance and you will be seen as (see # 1)

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Why? ... Because I said so.

Peace

reply to post by jude11


Wonderfully stated. It saddens me these responses to well meaning participants.

Sometimes worse this is along the lines of you are a total such and such or other personal attacks about the person's intelligence or some other personal attack instead of a simple...I disagree with the OP and here is why.

Char-Lee
reply to post by jude11

 

Wonderfully stated. It saddens me these responses to well meaning participants.

Sometimes worse this is along the lines of you are a total such and such or other personal attacks about the person's intelligence or some other personal attack instead of a simple...I disagree with the OP and here is why.

edit on 30-3-2014 by Char-Lee because: (no reason given)

I know we have all been guilty of this type of reply every so often and I see it as a boiling point where we all "lose it" once in awhile.

Where it divides so many tho is when the poster comes back with "oops, sorry, my bad, bad day" etc.

Then there are the others...

Peace

reply to post by jude11

Ok, I get it. You can't win them all but if a poster has at least put up video, sources, a well laid out theory etc, shouldn't a reply at least have the same if in disagreement even if only out of respect? A snippet of factual evidence or support of the opposite stance?

Not when the attempt is to discredit the OP or his opinion. Also, clogging the thread with crap so as to promote disinterest. The more of that the closer you are to the heart of the truth, the more what you say has to be insulted and swept away by a number of tactics. You could say it was almost flattering in that regard.

"Must have hit it pretty close to the mark for them to get all riled up like that, huh kid?" --Hans Solo, from "The Empire Strikes Back"

You had it easy on the 9 nuke commanders thread. You should see the one I was on. I wouldn't sweat it. Everyone has a say and everyone has their pet peeve.

The US military is one that is growing in opinion bashing. Besides general clogging of this site with so many threads and replies that nothing yesterday has any meaning anymore. Haven't you noticed? I see it as a different kind of denial of service attack.

Go ahead, start another thread.

intrptr
reply to post by jude11

 

Ok, I get it. You can't win them all but if a poster has at least put up video, sources, a well laid out theory etc, shouldn't a reply at least have the same if in disagreement even if only out of respect? A snippet of factual evidence or support of the opposite stance?

Not when the attempt is to discredit the OP or his opinion. Also, clogging the thread with crap so as to promote disinterest. The more of that the closer you are to the heart of the truth, the more what you say has to be insulted and swept away by a number of tactics. You could say it was almost flattering in that regard.

"Must have hit it pretty close to the mark for them to get all riled up like that, huh kid?" --Hans Solo, from "The Empire Strikes Back"

You had it easy on the 9 nuke commanders thread. You should see the one I was on. I wouldn't sweat it. Everyone has a say and everyone has their pet peeve.

The US military is one that is growing in opinion bashing. Besides general clogging of this site with so many threads and replies that nothing yesterday has any meaning anymore. Haven't you noticed? I see it as a different kind of denial of service attack.

Go ahead, start another thread.

That thread was actually just one amongst many.

And if it were only me, no problem. But then as I read more threads over the next day I started seeing a trend as if I wasn't s so special anymore...

It always happens of course but it seems to be picking up in frequency I've noticed.

Peace

Every time I see a kid walking down the street tapping away on his mobile I know he's getting all snippity on ATS! I only get snippity if no one feeds me and I have to resort to Chimmy Chongas.

minkmouse
Every time I see a kid walking down the street tapping away on his mobile I know he's getting all snippity on ATS! I only get snippity if no one feeds me and I have to resort to Chimmy Chongas.

With hot sauce?

Peace

reply to post by jude11


"You're an idiot for believing this" "Why post such nonsense" "You are wrong" ...Sour Cream!!!!!

I "think" I can get right to the point on this.

Using qualifiers like "I think" or "IMO" weakens your statement.
We humans prefer "strong" language--we prefer lines drawn in the sand.
Regardless of whether that line is correct or incorrect.

A truly intelligent and reasonable person appreciates the humility of
a statement that is qualified as an opinion, but sadly, most of us are
just couch-potatoes wishing to be entertained.

That's why we have loud-mouthed talking heads in the media that
continue to be widely popular. It doesn't matter what they are saying
as long as they say it loudly enough.

Here's a lyric by John Popper of
Blues Traveler as an example


It doesn't matter what I say
So long as I sing with inflection
That makes you feel that I'll convey
Some inner truth of vast reflection
But I've said nothing so far
And I can keep it up for as long as it takes
And it doesn't matter who you are
If I'm doing my job then it's your resolve that breaks

There is something amiss
I am being insincere
In fact I don't mean any of this
Still my confession draws you near
To confuse the issue I refer
To familiar heroes from long ago
No matter how much Peter loved her
What made the Pan refuse to grow

and what the heck...here's the entire video
...it's a GREAT song

rival
I "think" I can get right to the point on this.

Using qualifiers like "I think" or "IMO" weakens your statement.
We humans prefer "strong" language--we prefer lines drawn in the sand.
Regardless of whether that line is correct or incorrect.

A truly intelligent and reasonable person appreciates the humility of
a statement that is qualified as an opinion, but sadly, most of us are
just couch-potatoes wishing to be entertained.

That's why we have loud-mouthed talking heads in the media that
continue to be widely popular. It doesn't matter what they are saying
as long as they say it loudly enough.

Here's a lyric by John Popper of
Blues Traveler as an example


It doesn't matter what I say
So long as I sing with inflection
That makes you feel that I'll convey
Some inner truth of vast reflection
But I've said nothing so far
And I can keep it up for as long as it takes
And it doesn't matter who you are
If I'm doing my job then it's your resolve that breaks

There is something amiss
I am being insincere
In fact I don't mean any of this
Still my confession draws you near
To confuse the issue I refer
To familiar heroes from long ago
No matter how much Peter loved her
What made the Pan refuse to grow

and what the heck...here's the entire video
...it's a GREAT song

And this is how a reply gains respect!

Well done and Thanx.

Peace

I've been around this popsicle stand long enough to know now which threads to avoid like the plague.

As soon as you read the OP, you can tell right away which direction the thread is going to go in (or sometimes even just the thread title on its own)...

So with the idea of self-preservation in mind and not wanting to get anymore grey hairs than I already have, I just simply stay the hell out of them.

The semantics and logical fallacies can get pretty ridiculous in this place sometimes.

Maybe it's a combination of:

1. today's culture.

2. a cross-mix of the 5 stages of denial and grief about whatever issue they respond to.

3. big mix of psychological/psychiatric/education levels

CranialSponge
I've been around this popsicle stand long enough to know now which threads to avoid like the plague.

As soon as you read the OP, you can tell right away which direction the thread is going to go in (or sometimes even just the thread title on its own)...

True...

It does get easier to see where a thread will go.

But is that because of the content, the OP or the expected first or second replies with:

"GARBAGE! DON'T BE A FEAR MONGER!".

Peace

Maybe ATS should have an elite members club, like a second tier that you can only get to after you've been a member for so long and you've proven yourself socially acceptable within the community. I was going to say, after so many "Stars" but that could go sideways in a hurry. Imagine arriving on the site, checking out the new threads, getting your hair set on fire....Then you hit the "Elite" button and....Sanity!

If you'll notice I purposefully put something like "it's my opinion that..." or "I believe ..." when I know my response may not be exactly status quo. I also do this to let be known that I can be swayed on the topic and that it's just my thoughts on the matter not necessarily my ultimate belief. In other words I'm open to more knowledge that can change my stance on the subject.

Then there are other times when I'm just a smart ass.

I like the Rant... S&F

reply to post by jude11

And if it were only me, no problem. But then as I read more threads over the next day I started seeing a trend as if I wasn't s so special anymore...

It always happens of course but it seems to be picking up in frequency I've noticed.

Iv'e noticed that too. Vietnam era song by John Fogerty of Credence Clearwater Revival:

Fortunate Son

My question would be, why don't the mods shut down and erase the more egregious posts, lest an otherwise good thread gets quite obviously hijacked?

And hows about the old timers here let the newbies have fun with their 'new to them' threads? We've all been new to these kind of topics before and just because you've heard it all a dozen times doesn't mean they have. Not everyone has unlimited time to research old threads, either.

reply to post by jude11


What bothers me a lot is when these "trolls" don't even admit when they're wrong. You gain so much more respect when you do something as simple as admitting that you're wrong. Hear that trolls? Since it's obviously respect that you're after, why not try this once and a while? Are you scared that you might end up being seen as nice. Ooh, scary...

reply to post by jude11


I agree entirely, Jude. Learn logic. Cite sources. Even check sources for validity. Know how to communicate and argue and debate effectively.

-----

A lot of these skills are lacking in younger people, who are not learning any critical thinking skills in school, more than likely due to standardized testing and No Child Left Behind.

But the worse thing is, there is also a movement mixed in there of what is "social" as being what is "factually correct." It really doesn't matter what is social, either. It could be anything from a right-wing religion to extremist atheism. It could even change month to month. I'm not kidding.

I'm not just taking this from the A.T.S. forums, by the way, but real-life experiences mostly, actually - I interact with a lot of different people throughout the week. And there are also anecdotes from other friends that I pay attention to.