Were you a "bright child who didn't apply him/herself"?

DeadSeraph
HAHAHAHA I meant I suffer from excessive cranial circumference and hats generally don't fit me, but I suppose you could read other meanings into that. I do come off as big headed at times

Jus' goofin' brother...I star you quite often no lie.

I may have seen comments about not applying myself in elementary classes. I got lucky that my chemistry and physics teacher in High School kept things interesting for me. English lit books I thought were awful trash. I did not want to read them. I thought Catcher in the Rye or something like that should not be read for school. It was full of bad language and cuss words galore. I applied myself to cliff notes. I skimmed the notes to read as little as possible of all the junk required to pass the required crappy English literature courses. I thought the classes were stupid when I took them and never changed my opinion. College had similar crap.

I read several other books I was interested in but never found an English literature book I liked. In spite of just passing the crappy Emglish lit classes, I still ended up number 7 or higher in my High School graduating class. If I had applied myself to studying crap, I might have tied for number one. I wasn't trying to even be in the top ten and certainly hated English lit after the class. One guy who liked to cuss really enjoyed reading one of the books aloud in class one day. That's about all I remember from the class over 20 years later.

The GUT

WhiteAlice
I hear you. I grew up around ex-felons and "menial labourers" as they call them. I jokingly say that they were my baby sitters and it was pretty much true. Thing was, I learned so much from them about life and other subjects that they really left a mark on me (a good one!).

What a great POV. And full of wisdom, too.

My parents once rented an "in-law suite" to an ol' mean biddy who was always all up in my business and marriage. I loathed her as much as she seemed to loathe me. Then one day--I don't recall how it transpired--we sat down and talked and she amazed me with her pov. I learned a LOT that day and we were close from then on.

Sounds like the moment I realized my father wasn't an idiot and I didn't know everything I thought I did as a teenager and I actually realized just how smart he is

Never judge a book by it's cover. My father has a grade 7 education (he dropped out as a boy to work and ended up joining the Norwegian merchant navy shortly after) and is probably one of the smartest people I've ever met. He's a prolific reader, deep thinker, fantastic writer, and astute student of world events. He astounds me constantly with his command of the English language (his second language), vocabulary, analytical abilities, etc. He's had a lot of jobs over his storied life, and none of them were in the field of academia.

I've worked a lot of blue collar jobs myself having worked in the house building trades for a number of years, and while I can say with confidence a lot of my co-workers and associates were bonafide simpletons, a few of them were "wolves in sheeps clothing" so to speak. Sharp as a whip, but they looked dull as a hammer in their work clothes.

In the end, as others have pointed out, the public school system wasn't designed to nurture genius or creativity. It was designed to churn out factory workers who are comfortable in their learned realities, do not question authority, and are capable of working menial jobs through indoctrination. The authority part is a big issue. I've spent enough time in the principal's office to know that

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Yep, and that's the problem. How do you raise a kid and keep him free from those horrible things called "schools" while still getting him educated?

reply to post by WhiteAlice


No

I am a genius who figured out the game

And chose not to play

ketsuko
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Yep, and that's the problem. How do you raise a kid and keep him free from those horrible things called "schools" while still getting him educated?

That's how it's all set up, isn't it? You can't homeschool because you have to work to pay your exorbitant rent and living costs, and you can't send your kid to a private school because your living costs are exorbitant! Ever wonder why the rich send their kids to private schools instead of public schools? It isn't only about social status, I can say that much.

For the rest of the plebeians, we must make do with overcompensating for our crappy educational system with our parenting, which sounds like common sense at the surface, but becomes a more difficult task when you consider the state is practically raising our children for us while we are at work.

School was boring. As a kid, I looked around at all the mickey mouse stuff we were told to do, and couldn't believe it. What a waste of life.

I did well in school for the most part, but was bored out of my mind. I hated the memorization. I wanted to learn things about the world, other cultures, history, science, art, music. Learn, understand, know.

It was more about rote and behavior. Make sure you follow directions, rules. Listens well. Good handwriting. Plays well with others.

I got the message - don't stand out, don't be different, don't ask too many "why's" in class. God knows, don't be creative.

I was pulled out in sixth grade to tutor a younger child from another country who couldn't speak English. I got put into advanced classes in junior high, when all I wanted to do was read about Gandhi, MLK, philosophy, science fiction, poetry, and other countries/cultures.

By high school, I hid in art classes and Spanish classes (advanced). I wanted to be a revolutionary, which I told my social studies teacher. I wanted to change the world, not learn the crap we were learning. I couldn't wait to get the heck out of school.

I noticed that, though I could read adult books at a young age and understand them, could read and learn easily, could write well, I just had the toughest time paying attention. My mind would just daydream away. Why? Sheer, utter boredom. Oh, and I wanted to be outside, not sitting indoors.

I spent my free time reading, writing, playing guitar, singing, drawing, painting and dreaming. How I wished I could structure my own days and learn and explore what interested me rather than dying all day in school. Bells ring, like cattle we hurry down the halls. Eat now. Go to class now. Pencils down now. Go pee now. Need to pee during class? Sorry, no can do.

UGH! I hated it.

I did very well in college, could have done better (3.6), but was working fulltime, a fulltime student, and a parent. Quantitative analysis and statistics did me in and brought me down from a 4.0 GPA. Still hard to pay attention though

The GUT

That's exactly what I mean about intellect and wisdom. They're not necessarily mutually compatible.

Hah, theyre usually mutually exclusive. To find someone with high levels of intelligence AND wisdom, is very rare, partly because they do not announce to everyone how smart they are, nor go out of their way to showcase their intelligence. That humility comes from wisdom.

From the 3 part interview, I think Chris was just being honest from his own perspective most of the time. The "in the toilet" comment did show arrogance, but I was pleased that otherwise he did not go out of his way to use extravagant language or complicated terms to showcase how smart he may be. He didnt try to be confusing, which a person with high IQ with little wisdom, from my experiences with them, will usually try to do on any subject that might influence others perceptions of how smart that person actually is (for example when intelligence itself is being spoken about, or something that in the mind of most individuals will directly correlate with intelligence).

I was also pleased to hear his perspectives about reality, the little that were shared. IMO he does have a high intelligence, and he does have at least an above average bit of wisdom. If he did not, theres no way he would have come to the realization that no one is intrinsically better or worse than anyone else. That realization comes from a tempered pride, and only wisdom can do that, especially to one who has so much to potentially be prideful about.

Academics is boring. Applying ones self is boring.

The problem is social and entirely media driven, and has been since the end of WW2. Advertising puts a label on the things it values, and most people go along for the ride:

This = success. That = power, authority, influence.

This is what a good citizen looks like, believes in, and pursues to the exclusion of all other things.

I think some bright kids just look at the picture we have made about what success is, or happiness is in our "culture," and find it too narrow, or not at all interesting, and quit.

A tiny slice of the human experience - right out of a kids board game -- has become the be all / end all, and its boring.

So bright kids often fail. Some would rather kill themselves than play the game the way control demands we play.

"Bright kids who don't apply themselves" get bored with life early on because there is no real "west" from where they sit in the back of a public school classroom. It's there for the taking but they just can't reach it because the adults in the room -- well meaning and not -- are so comodified / bought in and sold out already they have no memory of a finer frontier.

reply to post by Galadriel


Wonderfully articulate post and a very accurate portrayal of how many of us felt (and feel). It's interesting to me that so many gifted and brilliant people experience the same sort of emotions while in the public school system. It's almost soul crushing to some of us (it certainly was for me).

Makes you wonder what Alexander the Great would have accomplished in life if he had been forced to sit in a tiny little desk in a row of tiny little desks under the flickering of fluorescent lights while being drilled on multiplication tables and forced to recite pointless facts he'd forget later in life, because he was too busy being scolded for doodling between his day dreams! *deep breath* Ok I had to rant a bit there.

This is one of the most poignant things I've ever seen on the internet in relation to this subject:

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


I also had the same sort of problem. Even though I was considered gifted I didn't have a lot of very intelligent friends or adults; especially friends. I don't know about indoctrination, but I definitely needed some guidance to help me make the right decisions.

This had been on my report card from 4th grade on up. I have always been shy which didn't help me in school. School bored me beyond belief. I excelled in music and arts. Later in high school when I skipped your basic classes, but lettered in band, won awards as a soloist and had no problem attending art and drama classes I was branded as "lazy". My parents and home life were very difficult to say the least. In sixth grade I began skipping regularly and parents branded me "delinquent". My Mom was convinced I was roaming the streets doing drugs but I was really at the large public library and attending presentations about the mysteries of the world while college professors attended with me. I was at a Shroud of Turin presentation and not one adult ever asked what I was doing there on a school day. They must have believed I had a parent there. Yeah, that was back when nobody really gave a crap what you were doing and minded their own business HA

I just had formed the habit early on, of avoiding doing boring and repetative work through being clever.
My kids did too- they would great grades on tests, because they had comprehended the lessons, not because they memorized them. This is typical of bright kids- they are usually the laziest.

I've watched that become a problem once in university, where there just is not way to shirk time and effort. My youngest is currently in his first year of college, with a heavy load of physics and math, and the first semester was hell for him, as he has never had to put effort into these subjects before- he didn't know HOW to work. But he's finally catching on.

It is a universal thing, I think, that some people might have enough brain power that they just get used to using their mind instead of their body for many tasks.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


The problem may be that since the 20's our education system has not been engaging our youth, and the phrase is just played out.

The school system is very simplistic and repetitive (boring for smarties), and it just keeps teaching the same basics for 12 years, then again in college you have to go through the same GE BS.

Most of the training (schooling) is not relevant to most of our adult life - except in the sense that for most of us our adult life will also be simplistic, repetitive (boring) tasks, as our jobs become more and more dumbed down and quality controlled/compartmentalized.

So I say it's become a cliche statement indicative of our education system being ineffective/outdated.

benrl
Heres a quick story,

1'st grade, New school, teacher hands me a math book and says "this is what we will be doing" she walks away.

Young Benrl, looks at this book, and goes, she said we would be doing it, so he does it, all of it.

Teacher returns, and proceeds to browbeat benrl For and I qoute " what the hell am I supposed to teach you now"

By 2nd Grade, Young benrl now receives work, and does not do it, stares blankly, or writes random diatribes into the answer portions of the test, this has now caused Benrl to repeat the 1st grade, and about to repeat the 2nd.

By now, older "gifted brother" is excelling, younger "gifted" brother also.

Young Benrl gets tested by the school for special ed...

Surprise, after counselling months of humiliation, Young Benrl is diagnosed...


Its Boredom, 135 IQ, Math skills at the College lever, Reading comprehension at High school level.

End result, I f-ed off through school, barely graduated, college late,

And to this day, I have an violent distrust of Bureaucracy and Authority.

edit on 20-2-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)

I was the same, at 8-9 we went to the library and the other kids were getting comic books and all and I was face first in the science row with the books about lasers, atomic stuff and all. At some point I earned the nickname "Alien" cuz of that... I won't every single art contest or science fair and stuff I was into but in class I just slept or day dreamed... I couldn't bare being forced to learn ONE single way to do something... At some point a teacher was trying to show us a way to solve a problem which was pretty long and pointless I figured a much easier and quicker way and shown her... Her response was and I will never forget it... "Thats nice...but if you do this on my test your getting zero..."


By 6th grade they had me run some tests too they had called in a special evaluator from the district she came in started showing me some puzzles and IQ test type stuff within 5 minutes she said "This isn't going to cut it...I'll be right back" she closed the suitcase she had an went to her car and came back with a different one... Her new suitcase that had some interesting stuff in there... The school director was all happy cuz she didn't like me and you could tell couldn't wait to get the results hoping to be able to get rid of me... anyways turned out I scored close to 140 and I have a eidetic memory she shown me a picture of a house will a flag on top and all kinds of lines and circles into it and had me draw it... Then took both my drawing and her image away, asked me more questions and handed me another paper sheet and said to draw it again so I did. I had nailed it 99.9% right out of 250 lines I was missing one diagonal one in the flag ontop of the house and she went to the director saying I was by far exceeding in everything especially memory due to the fact that one I had nailed the drawing test near perfection but it was the first time she saw this but my drawing was near perfection in proportion also when they superposed both the original image and my drawing and looked at them in a window to see both through the paper...

They had to keep me in regular classes but nothing changed I never applied myself cuz I was bored to death in there and mainly because any attempt to demonstrate creative, imaginative or inventive solutions were suppressed and forced to follow "the model" so I ended up rebelous and got into computers, electronic and hacking and stuff like that...

It was so pathetic in 10th grade I took electronic classes on the first test we had there was a list of components on a circuit schema we had to name. I had them ALL right but was given 0 because I wrote them in english instead of french... I had learned all of that when I was in 4th-5th grade and had 5 times the skills that teacher had in electronic yet he failed me cuz I didn't want to hook up a 9v battery to a flashlight bulb instead I wanted to make a strobe light... Even had to teach the moron how to properly solder components so he didn't get cold welds all the time... But he still failed me cuz I wouldn't do is stupid childish stuff...

I offered making a stobe light or a radio receiver and he refused it was either doing his retarded "hook a 9v battery to a light with a switch" and that kind of stupid stuff like the others or zero... I took the zero cuz I'm that stubborn...

I was one of those kids. I knew the answers just couldn't and still can't put thought to paper. Heck in 5th grade my teacher would constantly tell my mom I was sleeping in class so I started correcting her throughout the day....she didn't like me very much. Also I was hated by my fellow students, even the younger and older kids made fun of me and told lies about me all the way until I graduated so of course I just wanted to be by myself, didn't want to do my work in fear a teacher or student would call me out on a mistake. (which did happen many many times.)

reply to post by benrl


I was in the exact same situation... But I didn't mind it so much. I grew up with a few southeast Asian students in my class that were just learning English. I spent a lot of time working with them, at the request of my teacher. I really didn't think much of it as I always finished my own work early and was "bored."

Anyway, years later, I was working in the mall at my after school job my senior year of high school. A guy walks in who is around my age. He came up to me and he said, you probably don't remember me but we went to elementary school together. He said, I just wanted to tell you thank you for all your help when we were young. He said that I had helped him learn English and that made him feel so much better about being here in America. The last thing he said was that I probably didn't realize how much that meant to him and the others, and that he'd never forget what I had done for him. He hugged me and left.

I was dumbfounded...

I really didn't feel like I had done anything special but to him I made a huge difference.

I was a kool-aid drinker as a kid... I excelled in the indoctrination camp that was public school. I bought into all the lies, and did very well. It wasn't until my mid 20s that I realized something was wrong with my worldview. I can't tell you how much it has bothered me that I blindly believed in the lies... For as bright as I was I never questioned what I was told or taught, and that I seemingly thrived in what I now view as a sick psychopathic system. Looking back there were many signs I ignored. I still feel a lot of guilt for my participation and I know that I did harm to others without a second thought. It was nice to be told I had done some good in that time as well.

The really funny thing was in Infant and primary school I ended up in the gifted group AND the special edd group Haha

I had undiagnosed dyslexia and dyspraxia that they didn’t pick up on in my first 2 years, I was classed slow, lazy and a trouble maker. 3rd year when they introduced science , History and Geography I ended up shooting ahead by miles which raised questions. That got my teachers attention something odd was up. To cut a long story short I had the special ed teachers arguing with the gifted program teachers as both though I shouldn’t be in the other. Special ed wanted to slow my learning and hold me back and the Gifted wanted to push me and work around my dyslexia. Luckily the gifted program won.

At Primary School, (US equivalent is Junior School, I think), I excelled in most subjects. In my final year I was doing advanced Trigonometry and was considered well above average in all other subjects except Art.

During my very first Maths lesson in Comprehensive School I informed my teacher that I had done the Maths we were covering about a year or two earlier and that it was all very basic to me. She replied that I had to sit back and wait for everyone else to catch me up.
I got bored and found alternative things to do to interest me - I gradually became what can only be described as a disruptive element. In fact I became a complete twat and lost all interest in education. I skived school regularly, got in constant trouble with the authorities and police.
I guess I was a frustration to my teachers who constantly informed my parents that I was wasting my natural talents etc - yet they never offered me the opportunity to fully extend myself.
The only subjects I ever took any real interest in were History where my teachers really tried to encourage me and Religious Education where I could wind my teachers up with my agnostic viewpoints. (I was 'educated' in a Catholic school).

There was never anything like a 'gifted programme' back then - not sure if there is now.

I am a prime example of the failings of the Comprehensive system that in those days seemed to concentrate on focussing on the majority mediocre average.
I don't think much has changed really.

Its only now at 48 years old that I've turned my attention to any real, formal education. I started studying at The Open University a year or so ago and have recently been offered a place at University as a full time mature student starting in August.