An Idea Conservatives Should Love

www.truthdig.com...

One conservative, at least, is speaking for this majority. Ron Unz, a Silicon Valley millionaire and one-time Republican candidate for governor of California, is championing an initiative to raise his state’s minimum wage to $12 an hour. His reasons are thoroughly in keeping with his ideology.

Unz argues that a minimum wage hike “would function as a massive stimulus package.” He told ABC News that if the national minimum were increased to $12, “probably between $150 billion and $175 billion a year would go into the pockets of the lower-wage families that spend every dollar they earn. It would cause a tremendous boost in economic demand.”

He also pointed to the fact that government—through wage subsidies in the tax code, Medicaid and food stamps—is now conferring substantial benefits on employers of low-wage labor.

“One of the strange things in our society right now is that we have all these low-wage workers who are getting $7.50, $8 or $9 an hour,” Unz says, “and because they earn such small wages, the government subsidizes them with billions or tens of billions of dollars of social welfare spending that comes from the taxpayer. It’s a classic example of businesses’ privatizing the benefits of their workers while socializing the costs.”

Now this guy gets it and takes the time to think through consequences. Conservative used to (40 years ago) used to think this way.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Quoting a bit more from the article -

In an important article in the economic journal Challenge, “A Conservative Case for the Minimum Wage,” Oren Levin-Waldman, professor of public policy at Metropolitan College of New York, offers a similar view and makes the compelling moral points. Higher pay “increases the autonomy of low-wage workers,” he says, thus advancing “personal freedom” and “a core concept in conservative thought, which is personal responsibility.” This, in turn, means less dependence “on the largesse of others.”

www.truthdig.com...

It's actually a bad idea because it kills job. Like Obamacare, people just won't hire as many employees. And who would this really effect anyways? The teenagers that work at McDonalds? No one is seriously making living wages at establishments like that -- more like enhancing their current incomes that are coming in through things like social-spending programs. People are getting crafty with their disability checks, etc.

The only way to make to even make money at wages that low is if you are lucky enough to get paid under the table, which is a double edged sword really. You can claim unemployment at the same time, but if you have worked there long enough, you cannot do that anymore.

EDIT: You know, prices for consumers would increase. Also, it is really important to add that a lot of these jobs are very quickly becoming completely automated. In fact, more expensive labor IS A CATALYST FOR AUTOMATION. Then what? What happens when 25% of the work force is suddenly completely done by drones/robots/AI?

problem is a raise in minimum wage is a stimulus to inflation. Think of it well i spent 8 years in college in order to earn a decent wage. If those that didnt invest in their own futures are worth more than they were i feel like i should be worth more. In addition, the cost for low marking companies gets passed down to the consumers. Take for example a grocery store that employs many minimum wage people to remain profitable all be it very difficult with the Walmart and dollar generals that have emerged recently. These grocery stores have to remain profitable to stay in business so they have to cutback on staff or raise the price on their goods.

The cost of raising minimum wage would be better suited on education reform for colleges to extend opportunity to low income workers. Colleges have on average raised their cost on average by 8 percent year over year thats 6 percent over inflation. Their should be laws to prevent gouging, Leaving bag-boy and cashier jobs to high school-ers and college kids instead of people that should be earning a lot more than minimum wage. Walmart McDonald's and various entry level jobs should never have become career choices they are for kids to have spending money.

If Your offended well you should be I didn't start a business by sitting on the internet and complaining i learned what i needed to know and i ran with it.

You can too

reply to post by FyreByrd

This is a swell idea. Why don't we package what's left of the construction industry, put a big pretty bow on it, and just give it to the people who are here illegally. No one will break their back painting or roofing a house for 12 dollars an hour if they can go work a cash register for the same money.

reply to post by Bone75

The construction industry already makes more than minimum wage, and around $12 for entry level employees anyways, so I'm not sure what you mean.

This legislation would mostly effect the food industry.

I think you need to tack 50 cents on that 12

reply to post by QuikSnap


Short term thinking. Talking head parroting without thought or understanding.

Here is a paper on "Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discenible Effect on Employement"

www.cepr.net...

and another from the wonderful wacky Washington Post (with pictures for the reading challenged):

www.washingtonpost.com...

And as for price of goods:

More recently, Wilson (1998) reported estimates developed by The Heritage Foundation using
the 11 US macro model of the US economy. The proposed 19.4% 1999-2000 increase in the
minimum wage was estimated to increase overall prices by 0.2% in the first year and by an additional
0.1% in the second year.

From a macro analysis of available work on the price incease idea:

ftp.iza.org...

Shaiker
problem is a raise in minimum wage is a stimulus to inflation.

More short term thinking:

From the same paper:

Minimum wage overall inflation effects are hard to find; the minimum wage might cause
more inflation in sectors or industries overpopulated by minimum wage workers.

ftp.iza.org...

And a easier, read:

Some subsequent studies have generally supported aspects of Krueger/Card. A 2004 study of available literature, “The Effect of Minimum Wage on Prices,” analyzed a wide variety of research on the impact of changes in the minimum wage. The paper, from the University of Leicester, found that firms tend to respond to minimum wage increases not by reducing production or employment, but by raising prices. Overall, price increases are modest: For example, a 10% increase in the minimum wage would increase food prices by no more than 4% and overall prices by no more than 0.4%, significantly less than the minimum-wage increase. - See more at: journalistsresource.org...

Along with other real facts about minimum wage at:

journalistsresource.org...#

Raising the minimum wage doesn't solve any problems.

All it does is perpetuate the fallacy of a system engineered to keep prices up and maximize profits for the biggest owners and largest corporations...i.e., banks. The problem is the current rise of costs or in smaller terms the pricing of everything. The manipulation of currencies and economies has produced a run away increase in pricing of everything from food to housing. The costs of gov't regulation and taxes don't help the problem, either.

The problem isn't the fact that people aren't making enough money, it is the fact that businesses and corporations are effectively pricing out the nation to better themselves. In the long run, this will never work. At some point in time, costs become too much for the average consumer and the markets shut down. You see the same issue with gas prices that slowly creep up and never drop down to pre 2002 levels. The same goes for pricing of foods and grocery items. At what point in time does the increase ever stop? This is what destroys empires. When big shot money hoarders keep inflating the cost of things until there is nothing or no one left to pay for them.

Our problem is that as a whole, we don't see this issue. For some reason, we keep buying the same goods at increased prices and smaller packaging, until we run out of money. Then we are forced to work two jobs, which in turn gives us less time to enjoy our consumer goods, but more time to fill the pockets of the tax revenue recipients themselves.

We, the people, need to take control of our run away markets.
We set the prices and determine how much we need to live.
Not the gov't.

I've lived through one as a minimum wage worker, and it does everything they say despite what those little papers of yours are claiming - fewer jobs, increased prices, and devalued worth of everyone else's wages. I saw it all with my own eyes in my own direct experience when every single cent was near and dear.

ketsuko
I've lived through one as a minimum wage worker, and it does everything they say despite what those little papers of yours are claiming - fewer jobs, increased prices, and devalued worth of everyone else's wages. I saw it all with my own eyes in my own direct experience when every single cent was near and dear.

Through 'one' what?

A singluar experience does not translate to the experience of millions of minimum wage workers.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I'd rather err on the side of the many rather, then the experience of one.

FyreByrd
www.truthdig.com...

Now this guy gets it and takes the time to think through consequences. Conservative used to (40 years ago) used to think this way.

What he gets is, how to screw the people over while acting like he is helping.

Raising the minimum wage is a political move that hurts the middle class and the poor in the long run.It only benefits individual business owners and the upper class. Its a bogus and bad idea regardless if a conservative or liberal pushes for it.

How much money you make an hour is not important , Its the buying power that is important. Raising the minimum wage decreases the poor and the middle class buying power.

Why, because the cost of business goes up and the business owners passes that expense to the consumers. The kicker is that when business raise their cost of doing business they usually throw in a little extra because its not easy to keep raising prices. So they use the minimum wage as an excuse to raise prices plus a little extra.

Therefore the poor loose buying power because the business owners not only compensated for the higher minimum wage but they through in a little extra. The middle class loses buying power, because their salary didn't go up based on the minimum wage. The business owners get a little bonus because they passed the minimum wage increase to the consumer and they added a little extra.

I don't know about al the theories and formula-tive studies done about this. I do know that 1 day after peoples wages go up thirty percent so will a gallon of milk, a loaf of bread and a gallon of gas.

reply to post by intrptr


How do you know this? Are you psychic? Did someone tell you that would happen? Reason is more then just wanting something to be true.

A question, perhaps one that needs it's own thread.

Why, when you are suffering, do you want others to suffer too or suffer more then you.

I could quote patriarchical theory where want to be dominators learn that to gain status they have to do so on the backs of others. But I won't bore you with that.

I can sympathize with those who are struggling economically. I have trouble making ends meet with years of experience and education. I've no benefits whatsoever.

But I'm happy when someone else's lot becomes lighter seeing that mine may be lighter soon too.

So often on ATS, I hear, instead, how others should suffer more because a poster is suffering in their life. Does it make you feel better, knowing that while you have little others have less?

Can you see nothing good about taking care of others, even if no one ever took care of you. You have to act the way you want people to act towards you not wait for THEM to act the way you want (seems to be a spiritual law in there some way).

To use the quote's of Mr. Unz how is a trade off of 150 to 175 billion to business's compared to 10s of billions by the government seem logical, why not just pay more state tax to help subsidize the low wage earners in the individual state's ?

That would also motivate the business's in that state to create training programs to get people away from min wage.

The corporation's will lay off people and transfer the cost to customers. just common sense not a talking point before you go there.

Has anyone looked for stats on how many people making 12.50 an hour are still on some kind of assistance ? That's only 24 K a year before tax...still poverty level is it not?

If I already make $12 an hour and all of a sudden they raise minimum wage to $12 an hour, guess what? Now you have just added another person to the amount of people who make minimum wage that didn't before. Also, I am going to demand a raise, because I've been working here for 4 years and now make the same amount as somebody hired yesterday. See the problem?

FyreByrd
reply to post by intrptr

 

How do you know this?

Because greed will always take advantage. Corporate greedy will charge what the market will allow. You flood the market with more money for whatever reason…

inflation

Sandcastler
If I already make $12 an hour and all of a sudden they raise minimum wage to $12 an hour, guess what? Now you have just added another person to the amount of people who make minimum wage that didn't before. Also, I am going to demand a raise, because I've been working here for 4 years and now make the same amount as somebody hired yesterday. See the problem?

Don't see the problem - sounds like a great reason for a raise.