I want to have a discussion about this article I just found...

This is the article

I've omitted the title because I don't want to cause people unnecessary upset or offence. That isn't what this is about. But the article is basically a lady explaining why men have affairs. Obviously, there will be people on here who have been cheated on and this doesn't apply to. And in that case, don't sweat it, forget it happened, the other half was a jerk and you're better off without them so leave this thread and never look back. I definitely don't want to bring up bad memories, I don't want people getting angry and posting anything they'd regret. I want a nice, quiet and civil discussion on how you feel after reading this.

And I'd like to hear from all points of view from people who have read this. Men, women, single, married, in a relationship, straight, gay, whatever. I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Because I always assumed that if a guy cheated on me I'd know he didn't love me any more and I'd leave him until I got into a serious relationship. And now I think I'd be devastated. Like really, really upset. But if the points she outlines of women wanting material stuff to be happy and men physical and women stopping all of the prior 'fun' once they have a house and 2.5 kids does actually strike me as unfair. I know work tires you out and kids tire you out, but surely you should always make the effort to have time together. Like, at least once a week? Because you fell in love once and you want to keep that going, don't you?

I mean, I could be completely wrong. I always assumed me and my lad would do something special every month at least when we're married and have kids but I also can imagine I'll go mental when I have a baby and won't trust anyone to look after it so that'll stop. But when they get older...

Basically, I can see where she's coming from. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I can understand why, when things get domestic, a man (or a woman) might get bored and actively seek something more fun, which ends in an affair. And that also kinda filled the void of understanding why, if someone says they love their partner, they'd cheat.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Ay

Ayana
This is the article

I've omitted the title because I don't want to cause people unnecessary upset or offence. That isn't what this is about. But the article is basically a lady explaining why men have affairs. Obviously, there will be people on here who have been cheated on and this doesn't apply to. And in that case, don't sweat it, forget it happened, the other half was a jerk and you're better off without them so leave this thread and never look back. I definitely don't want to bring up bad memories, I don't want people getting angry and posting anything they'd regret. I want a nice, quiet and civil discussion on how you feel after reading this.

And I'd like to hear from all points of view from people who have read this. Men, women, single, married, in a relationship, straight, gay, whatever. I'd like to hear what you guys think.

Because I always assumed that if a guy cheated on me I'd know he didn't love me any more and I'd leave him until I got into a serious relationship. And now I think I'd be devastated. Like really, really upset. But if the points she outlines of women wanting material stuff to be happy and men physical and women stopping all of the prior 'fun' once they have a house and 2.5 kids does actually strike me as unfair. I know work tires you out and kids tire you out, but surely you should always make the effort to have time together. Like, at least once a week? Because you fell in love once and you want to keep that going, don't you?

I mean, I could be completely wrong. I always assumed me and my lad would do something special every month at least when we're married and have kids but I also can imagine I'll go mental when I have a baby and won't trust anyone to look after it so that'll stop. But when they get older...

Basically, I can see where she's coming from. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I can understand why, when things get domestic, a man (or a woman) might get bored and actively seek something more fun, which ends in an affair. And that also kinda filled the void of understanding why, if someone says they love their partner, they'd cheat.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Ay

Love or even the status of marriage can have absolutely no bearing on a man's affair.

I have a lot to say about this topic, I am not an anti-cheating person. But I could tear that article apart. Her observations are really ridiculous.

BBL!

I can't even speak to the ridiculousness of this article. If there are any here who feel that this article in any way represents them or speaks true to the relationships they have or are in - I'm sorry for you.

What I will speak to...just a suggestion. From a man If you want to keep your sexual life healthy with your partner - make a rule. Sleep naked. Always. No clothes allowed in the bed. Ever. You can keep up those boundaries all day everyday, but every night - nothing between. (young children that run in with nightmares or something may be a hindrance and, obviously sleeping at your parents' or something - maybe break the rule - but, you get the idea, and it's totally do-able).

Just my two-cents.

I just read the article. I used to follow this guy who was/is a personage in a certain intellectual interest of mine. He had a gorgeous but not young, wife, and two attractive home schooled high IQ kids. She began college, but early gave up her life for this (megalomaniacal narcissis)t. As soon as adoring cult like zombified fans began treating him like a Messiah god-come-to-earth, his wife was yesterday's garbage, while a tall skinny blond was flinging herself at him. He had "the maximum" FaceBook friends, but was only likeing everything she did on her wall. I needed to spy it, so I could realize that I need to never pay any attention to his existence again. I have lost all respect for this dude.
Obviously, I can call someone a Cluster-B type, without being a qualified diagnose'r; but I have been researching indepth on my own about the conscienceless people, and their common behavior they reliably do, is IDD. Idealize, Devalue, and Discard.

I love blueberry pie. I mean I LOVE blueberry pie. But every once in a while I want a piece of coconut cream pie. I've been with Mrs. Catfishjoe for 11 yr and have never cheated. Tho I have craved a different flavor of pie......I'm pretty happy with my blueberry pie. Damn.....pie sounds good.

reply to post by nixie_nox


Go ahead. I want to see what people think.

She appears to be egotistical, yes. She's on about men always talking to her and she doesn't want kids or marriage when she can still have fun, so she's also immature. I dunno how old she is, but if she's hanging round with married men, maybe 30s? And maybe soon enough she'll realise that the men she's having 'fun' with aren't enough any more and they're using her as much as she's using them and it's no longer okay.

But, I do agree with her on the point of why you have to get to the stage in marriage where you ignore each other and ignore each others needs because you just can't be bothered any more. I would never want to get into a situation where I was so bored of my partner and of our life that I'd have to cheat to get a little bit of excitement back, equally vice versa. I do know of people who don't work with their relationships: as soon as they're together they just stop everything they did before. Don't go out, don't see friends, don't dress up any more or make plans or surprises, get upset if their partner does go out with their friends etc. And I've seen relationships fall apart for it. But it seems mental to me that you would become so sedentary, and then you wouldn't notice you were so sedentary, and then once your partner leaves you, you blame everything but that. Coz, like I said, surely if you love someone you wouldn't want to get bored of them/them of you?

reply to post by Ayana


I get where she's coming from (ignorance and inexperience) but, really, she would also make a horrible committed partner for the same reasons she listed. That man's wife probably felt just she did before she got married and tied down with children.

I think it's the gender bias and expectations that screw this up. I've been married for 13 years and we have a five-year-old kid. We have both explored our careers during this (one person working their butt off while the other tries to get something off the ground) and now have settled on a very mutual arrangement. We both make about the same money on average, we both have the same amount of space, and we both watch our daughter the same amount of time.

We are both just as worn out as the other and understand each other to a very deep degree. Other marriages I've seen like ours also seem to have spouses with mutual respect for one another. It's the patriarchal mom-at-home paradigm marriages I see getting wrecked or dissolving so often.

The "traditional" marriage scheme we so dearly cherish is a recipe for long-term disaster in nearly every case I see. Either they are too old fashioned to divorce (or seek counselling) so they spend their lives miserable and caged or they just cheat on each other.

I think equality between two spouses is one of the most helpful things you can have in a relationship.

I often had this question about married men, especially,.........ones who are visible with a certain kind of esteemed reputation, otherwise. I swear, I'm not behaving trollie, It's genuinely sincere. Isn't there some kind of nearly lifelike woman doll available, one that isn't like a beach toy, not robots though, (yet, I hear,) because a human woman could always turn Fatal Attraction on you. I look at what happened to David Patrayus and Bill Clinton.

reply to post by Ayana


Ill get destroyed for these 3 comments but....

1) I think marriage is too hard nowadays with tech making it so easy to connect and get to know someone. Why did our parents do better at marriage than us? Because it was so hard to get to know someone outside of their bubble...I mean you cant use your secret text app through a landline phone. Technology has made it too easy to meet someone else.

2) I think we arent made to be married. Ive only met one woman to ever make me feel truly wonderful and it still didnt work somehow. I love her to death this day but we will never be together. There is too much damage to ever make it work and she did not a single thing wrong.

3) This is the one that will get my butt kicked....I think men often cheat for physical pleasure...they can turn off the emotional side and immediately go back to their woman. Women on the other hand I think seek a more emotional appeal when cheating...they want to be more involved and fantasize about their future life with that person.

reply to post by misschareesee2


Ive gone through this from the mans perspective. I was always maybe somewhat popular growing up...had a girlfriend that was attractive and led a pretty good simple life.

At some point I was single and in a position that drew a lot of attention. I had women constantly wanting to meet up or adding me back when I had facebook. I loved the attention. Because of my position or whatever they saw I had dates constantly...and sex too!

But I couldnt related to a single one of them. It is like once they burned through that illusion we found out right away we had nothing in common. This led to several failed relationships and me going back to one night stands cause lets face it....most people in a bar or on online dating are lonely.

From there on out once I was in a relationship that was going south Id find comfort again in my old ways...often meeting several women and quickly ending the last relationship that we knew was doomed.

I think for guys...in America...we spend so much time hitting on women...to maybe be successful a few times....when the table is turned and women are now hitting on us...its a very nice feeling..its addicting...in America you dont see women go after guys as much.

reply to post by cosmicexplorer

I appreciate your honest perspective, another person's (and gender's) view and experience is educational. The social network technology is torpedo'ing monogamy, I have sat and watched it, with a bag of popcorn, a large coke, and some cheese nachos. (And m&ms.) (And I wasn't at the movies or in front of TV!) I'm not in any relationship (I had a fling with a narcissist back in 1997) and I decided that I would need a human looking-feeling-functioning advanced robot guy (OR HOLODEK!) who's positronic brain was deliberately and unhackably hardwired, to be madly in love with only me, and view tall skinny blondes like a mere telephone pole. I hope I live to see the day, I'm waiting on it and holding my breath, like someone by the phone who believes the "I'll call you."

cosmicexplorer
reply to post by Ayana

 

Ill get destroyed for these 3 comments but....

I think I'll also be destroyed for my reply to your post so I guess we'll enjoy ATS oblivion together.

cosmicexplorer
1) I think marriage is too hard nowadays with tech making it so easy to connect and get to know someone. Why did our parents do better at marriage than us? Because it was so hard to get to know someone outside of their bubble...I mean you cant use your secret text app through a landline phone. Technology has made it too easy to meet someone else.

I mainly disagree with this because I think the previous generation had worse marriages. Our generation would have marriages like theirs if they were willing to stick with miserable marriages. With our generation, when marriages do work out, I feel they work out much better than those in the good 'ole days (sometimes because it's easier to meet more people).

cosmicexplorer
2) I think we arent made to be married. Ive only met one woman to ever make me feel truly wonderful and it still didnt work somehow. I love her to death this day but we will never be together. There is too much damage to ever make it work and she did not a single thing wrong.

I agree with this a bit. I don't think marriage is for everybody and that's part of the problem; we tell everybody that it is the default way to be. I'm pretty sure we'll have many other forms of long-term relationships enter our regular lexicon in the next couple of decades.

cosmicexplorer
3) This is the one that will get my butt kicked....I think men often cheat for physical pleasure...they can turn off the emotional side and immediately go back to their woman. Women on the other hand I think seek a more emotional appeal when cheating...they want to be more involved and fantasize about their future life with that person.

edit on 12-2-2014 by cosmicexplorer because: (no reason given)

Exactly! Only I don't think it's because women are women and men are men; I think it's because of the roles they usually fall into which are uneven. Traditionally, men fall into the alpha role where their identity is not primarily "husband and father" but conqueror and provider therefore they can usually act in a binary fashion between physical/emotional. Women in that type of marriage are usually fantasizing in that sense as a reaction to the role they fell into.

The fact is monogamy is not normal; it's rare. That's not to say that many men have been socialized well enough that they accept it, but it is a matter of social conditioning rather than natural inclination. The issue stems right from the hard facts of biology and survival.

A woman needs a "hearth" in order to raise her children, which are primarily her responsibility. You can decry how "unfair" this is all you want, but the fact is that for most species, females raise the kids, period. To do that they need a man who will ensure their safety and provide for their well-being. He's got to bring home the bacon. Women can forage close by, but they aren't going on the lengthy hunts. Since women can have one baby a year at best, and perhaps one every three years if lactation inhibits ovulation, it takes awhile to raise them to the point of independence. A secure home and warm blankets maximizes a woman's ability to further her genes, to survive at all.

A man's method of securing the future of his genes is much different. basically, the more the merrier. From a genetic standpoint it is more valuable for a man to spread his DNA around in the hopes a few offspring will survive than to stick with one woman only. From a DNA perspective it doesn't make sense for a man to literally put all his eggs in one basket. Just as in the animal world where it takes one bull to service several cows, the same is true of humans. A woman can get pregnant only once at a time; a man can make a different woman pregnant on a daily basis. This also mitigates against narrowing the gene pool.

That's the natural order of things. That's what men and women would do if nobody else were telling them what they should and should not do. "Civilization" puts a different spin on things, in favor of women being even more secure. It also favors furtherance of a man's DNA in the sense that he "owns" his women and prevents other men from copulating with them. This is strictly an inheritance issue and though prevalent, is not universal, particularly in matrilineal societies. (Note: Matrilineal means inheritance flows through the female line, but that does not mean matriarchal. Men still rule; it's just uncle instead of father.)

Now, even when civilization reaches the point where the overall "rule" is monogamy and men are "supposed to" remain loyal to their wives, this STILL remains largely an inheritance issue. Even in strait-laced Victorian England, it was completely normal for a man to set up a mistress on the side. He paid for her townhouse, her upkeep, her clothing, her entire livelihood in return for sexual favors. His legal wife still gave him "an heir and a spare" to fulfill social obligation, but there was an outlet for men to "return to the hunt," so to speak. And children born "on the other side of the blanket" were frequent and not unacknowledged. It's just that they weren't in the line of succession.

And usually, there is some way to do that. The Ottoman Empire had harems. The Chinese Empire had concubines. The Roman Empire had prostitutes. Everywhere you go there was some way, some method for men to legally have sex with more than just a single woman. The idea of "love" that keeps women and men exclusively together is a relatively recent invention. And the idea that monogamy is the natural order of things is both naïve and simply not true, as any review of the historical record will show. Further, that there is no acceptable sexual outlet is both unnatural and repressive. From an historical perspective, men are getting screwed (Not), and that is not natural.

Today we live in a sexually repressive society that (in terms of the above) favors females. having an "affair" is often the death knell for a relationship that is supposed to be exclusive. Other societies throughout history would look at this situation and say, "WTF??? What the hell are you doing????" But because of the current setup, the break up of a nuclear family is devastating to (wait for it) females. In the average divorce involving children the female does a lot worse financially afterwards and the male does a lot better, even considering onerous child support payments from fathers.

So, suppressing the natural male urge to have more than one partner doesn't work well for either males or females. You also have the modern idea that females must make exactly what men make, have the same promotional opportunities, and do exactly as well or they are "discriminated against" and to hell with the children. Men have never raised children, and if women won't in favor of a masculine career path, who will? Unless we are rich enough for live on au pairs and nannies, no one, with quite obvious social consequences. This isn't helped by the necessity of two parents working to "make ends meet" which really means having all the accustomed modern amenities. If we lived today like our parents lived in the fifties (for many of you, your grandparents) you would be considered "below the poverty line." Today the poor have cable TV and large screen TVs along with cars and cell phones. In the fifties families could live on one income and have enough for a cabin in the woods for weekends. Today the cabin costs $400K.

There's a whole lot more to this, I realize, and I'm sure some of you, rather than considering the issue as a whole, will pick on a sentence here or there to rail against, but that's part of the issue. We are being pitted against each other and blaming each other for being placed in this social strait jacket of living in ways that neither one of us really want to do. And I'm not even saying it doesn't work. Monogamy is just fine for me, thanks. I'm quite comfortable with it and wouldn't have it any other way. But I'm older and don't have the energy. If I were 21 with the libido to match, I might feel differently.

I think this is an article written by a woman with a touch of ego trying to extrapolate her singular experience to the macro.

Sure, some guys cheat because their wives are frigid. I am sure the same can be said in reverse. I know I would eventually have to get to the ultamatum stage were my wife to hold out on me, and i would expect the same in return.

Some men cheat because they have their own illness of the ego, and need that fix.

Some men have impulse control issues.

Some have no moral standard and portray traits of sociopathy.

There are many reasons a man would stray, and vice versa with women (and they do....i have been propositioned by married women a few times along the way).

I DON'T cheat for many reasons. We are very active (although some years along the way were not quite so). She completes me in every other way, and I value her highly. it would be a horrible thing to do to someone I loved, and would kill anyone else for putting that kind of grief and dishonor on her. It would be a poor example for my kids. My stature in the community would suffer, as I have a reputation that is sterling and beyond reproach.

There are many reasons I don't do it, and I bet some folks share some of those reasons with me. And many choose not to.

Men cheat, women cheat. I won't go so far as to call the basic premise of the topic "misandry". But it would be hard to call it anything else.

I wonder if she knows that she's a married mans booty call? Nothing more, nothing less. Just a cheating piece of craps whore on the side. I get tired of hearing how unhappy married people are, talk it out and fix it or get out and move on.

Someone asked me a long time ago when I was less-than-honorable in my own
relationship..."Whats sex got to do with marriage?"

I kept going over that, and it finally clicked in my head. And I was never unfaithful again, either in relationships or marriage.

Please no debate here...just think about that question like I did....

reply to post by Ayana


Have to agree with some of the other posters on this. My take on it was that she has been (and actively is?) the "other" woman. My best friend was also an "other" woman for a good long while and made similar arguments to defend her activities. The thing that I'd like to point out to the author of the article is, if she is so exciting and wonderful to her married man, why is he still seemingly with his wife? lol She also seems to want to "cookie cutter" women with cheating spouses as being one thing ("leave it to beaver") and that's not true either.

My ex-husband cheated on me and it wasn't because I wanted a big wedding (our wedding cost under $3k) or wanted some guy to take care of me. I hate big houses (they feel empty) and am disdainful of titles/fame. Always got on better with men than women, etc etc. I'm not exactly a tom boy as I'm not terribly athletic and have been ingrained to wear makeup but I'm definitely not one's typical "female". In personality tests, I tend to test "male" and even Gender Genie made that same proclamation, lol. My ex-husband, to this day, calls me "the perfect woman" and guess what--he cheated on me. The fact is that he and I should've never married. I didn't love him all out, even tried backing out of the wedding. I even told him that he was my best friend but only my best friend and that he deserved better. He said I had cold feet. He might as well have been a dog lover stuck with a cat.

One of the things that my best friend who was an "other" woman and I totally agree on is that people settle for "almost right" way too much. It seems that they'll find someone who looks like the perfect thing for them or matches most of their ideals and run with it as opposed to waiting for the absolutely right person. At the beginning of such a marriage, things may seem great but those little missing things may very well become severe underlying issues. I'm not the most expressive/affectionate person in the world and while my ex-husband admired that about me, it was the total opposite of what he needed. He felt unloved and he was right to. It's no wonder that he strayed. I don't blame him. Weirdly enough, I think it also makes for a situation where the cheating spouse tries to cling so hard in an attempt to make it right or "work". My ex refused to leave and, even after that while living with another woman, refused to divorce me. It's the reason why this "other woman" in the article is still the other woman and not the guy's end all, be all. As a society, we tend to rush in fast, overlook traits that are idiosyncratic to us, and then wonder why it eventually blows up in our faces.

It's not that women are a certain type of women that men lose interest in and it's not just men doing the cheating. Women cheat, too, and probably for the same reasons--they may love their partner to an extent but their needs are not getting met. People are really afraid of being alone or having a divorce under their belt but if it's not working, it's just not working. Better to call it what it is and not dump a bunch of additional baggage on both parties.

reply to post by cosmicexplorer


I think you are totally right about men straying for physical reasons. This is really hard to admit, but my husband did. Because he wanted "to feel wanted". It's the hardest f@#$ing thing to recover from,

reply to post by chelsdh


I am very sorry to hear that...I actually cheated on my last ex gf for physical reasons...ive been single over a year now by choice because I just dont think I can have a relationship. I still talk with my ex and shes deeply hurt and its the biggest regret of my life. We have remained good friends.

Relationships are hard....I have never had a successful one and Im not sure what I need to do to have one...but the longer im out of the game the more I enjoy being alone...or atleast I think I enjoy it.

But I also believe people can overcome cheating and regain trust...sometimes life puts weird pressures on us and we make poor decisions.

chelsdh
reply to post by cosmicexplorer

 

I think you are totally right about men straying for physical reasons. This is really hard to admit, but my husband did. Because he wanted "to feel wanted". It's the hardest f@#$ing thing to recover from,

This happens. It happened to people I have known.

Sometimes you get so focused on the daily grind that you forget to "meet up" and find your center again. My wife and I will, from time to time, tell the other that we are "feeling far away". Its the cue for the other to put some time in and bring us back to center, where things "feel right" again.

Sorry to hear about your plight. After seeing my mom go through it, I swore I would make my marriage work. I was only 5 then, and it had a profound effect on me for years after the divorce.