The Origins of Gnosticism

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Maybe there is some confusion regarding the 'freemason secret handshake'. Because initiates arrive at the 'temple' naked and in total darkness, the handshake told of what their (those initating) standing was; or degree. Passwords? thats childsplay. Ive not read anything within gnostic texts refering either. I completely agree Akragon, all gnosis is written within the words of the bible; right before anyones open eyes and just dont grok it (see it).

A bunch of naked guys… fumbling around in the dark… looking for handshakes… is not my idea of good time lol

It could end up in one of those, “those aren’t pillows” lol moments… I’d rather be outside, with the woman in white dresses…(fully clothed of course lol)

If I ever get into those lodges, I’m going to demand, they take me to their ancient texts immediately, so I can debate it out, with the top Grandmasters. That’s where the true gnosis is at; enquires of the deepest mysteries, tested against the ideas and opinions of others, who are specialists in their fields.

- JC

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Jesus did not bring gnosis as cannot be taught, he would have served as teacher to guide only. He was not so esoteric in his teachings that would include this type of Adept 'ness' (one that has the connection to his creator) to the initiate, as its up to you to self individualize "it is given to YOU to know the mysteries" -Jesus, Matthew 13.11.

I totally agree with you, vhb. He was teaching and guiding, but could/can not "give" it.

We have to figure it out for ourselves.

Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
Maybe there is some confusion regarding the 'freemason secret handshake'. Because initiates arrive at the 'temple' naked and in total darkness, the handshake told of what their (those initating) standing was; or degree. Passwords? thats childsplay. Ive not read anything within gnostic texts refering either. I completely agree Akragon, all gnosis is written within the words of the bible; right before anyones open eyes and just dont grok it (see it).

JoecroftA bunch of naked guys… fumbling around in the dark… looking for handshakes… is not my idea of good time lol.

Not the whole lodge; just the one being initiated..how to tell only one? because of the bare footprints (2) observed walking on the carpet up to the altar (after the ritual "let there be light" 's on). The others traveled roundabouts at the temples edges. It was a Jobs Daughter that partook of shook/shake of the hands of those entering.

JoecroftIt could end up in one of those, “those aren’t pillows” lol moments… I’d rather be outside, with the woman in white dresses…(fully clothed of course lol)

If sharing a bed with either 'Dell', or Steve Martin in a rundown 39.99 cash a night (or your rolex wristwatch as payment) roadhouse motel Id say a definate maybe. Those women in white dress outside actually 12-13 year olds.

[JoecroftIf I ever get into those lodges, I’m going to demand, they take me to their ancient texts immediately, so I can debate it out, with the top Grandmasters. That’s where the true gnosis is at; enquires of the deepest mysteries, tested against the ideas and opinions of others, who are specialists in their fields.

I think thats a great plan! All of this denial by the freemasons must STOP NOW! I would imagine youd make a great opponant in that debate (what topic) Id have to be the moderator and pose the questions, or you could be the moderator and I the opponant to the Grand Master Wizard. Your first question should be; why do the Judaic call 'The Star of David' their own, when it is a union of the higher with the lower and originally was the hexogram of the Egyptians, symbolizing the bringing into ones physical life that force/god which created you (also a merkaba travel vehicle). I thought the one race disliked the other as were mistreated by and had to escape "Pharoah Let Us Go!"; (Moses elequent explaination in the biblical "Exodus"); why borrow their oppressive slavemaster/whippers hateful iconography and incorporate it as their own reinvention? While Im at it, who was Moses channeling, he would have been the very first "New Ager".

wildtimes
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

VHBJesus did not bring gnosis as cannot be taught, he would have served as teacher to guide only. He was not so esoteric in his teachings that would include this type of Adept 'ness' (one that has the connection to his creator) to the initiate, as its up to you to self individualize "it is given to YOU to know the mysteries" -Jesus, Matthew 13.11.

wildtimesI totally agree with you, vhb. He was teaching and guiding, but could/can not "give" it. We have to figure it out for ourselves.

He was a master of these gnostic teachings; and as he said himself, did not cast pearls before swine; wasnt his mission to be an avatar of the mystery schools to student initiates. His message needed to stay simple and reach as many as possible; that this physical world is a training ground for souls to progress and the non physical 'kingdom' your soul will return to upon physical death is the reality. Not sure sure how it translated 1975 years ago to his constituant audience, but does in this age.

vethumanbeing
reply to post by wildtimes

Gnostism originates out of the Order of Melchisedek (way back machine) and the Essenes sect Qumran; (70AD destroyed by the romans) then passed to the Rosicusions; Templars/freemasons; mans origins and his reason for an existence. Esoteric hidden spiritual teachings regarding our creators (who they were) and why they felt the need to uplift the specie of Mankind. This was an oral tradition.

Major tenent is: "life manifested as the being we know as homo sapiens did not originate on this planet, but was implanted here by more advanced spiritual beings who came from elsewere". Jesus was an Essene and had this knowledge.

edit on 10-2-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

This is all correct. Vethumanbeing, your knowledge is commended for being in a class of its own. On Earth, the Order of Melchizedek and The Essenes came from a Mystery school (Law of One) from Egypt, specifically from King Akhenaten (this was before the introduction of the Pharaoh). He successfully taught some people in Egypt at that time the teachings of Master Toth who was from Atlantis. These successors of Akhenaten went on to live in Masada, Israel, who all later became the Essenes and wrote the Qumran, Dead Sea Scrolls.

Master Jesus had all knowledge of the Essenes, since he was born and raised as one of them. The essence of this knowledge was to become an Ascended Being or Immortal even while in the flesh. He taught the masses the Law of One (the Path of Oneness with God) of which what people today call as Salvation. So to understand this origin of Gnosticism, the original 300 people who were taught by King Akhenaten were all immortals when they were known to Israel as the Essenes. An Ascended Being has the knowledge and ability to traverse the 3rd, 4th, and higher dimensions at will with or without their physical bodies.

So you ask, if they were immortals, why were they still on Earth at the time? Immortality is about what I call, "Timeless Consciousness." You see, when most people die, they forget almost everything that happened in the life they just went through until they go through the "Life Review" process of the afterlife. When they are reincarnated, they again, lose all memories of the previous life. Their consciousness does not allow them to remember the past, present, and future. But as an Ascended Being or Immortal, you are able to remain in FULL consciousness at all times, no matter if you are with the physical body or not. Therefore, time no longer makes a difference. It becomes just an illusion to such a being. So, being on Earth or not, is not the definition of immortality. It has to do with your consciousness. In Heaven, Earth is still there in the 5th dimension.

For example, when Master Jesus died and resurrected, he didn't forget anything that happened before. He was an immortal before his death. So yes, immortals can die the "physical death" since it has nothing to do with keeping the physical body forever. It's your mind/consciousness that is forever. Even if they can die, they have the power to prevent death if necessary. It is just another ability of an Ascended Being or a person who have reached the "3rd Level of Earth Consciousness," another tidbit of knowledge from Gnosticism. Most people on Earth are on the 2nd Level of Earth Consciousness.

vethumanbeing
Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

 

[JoecroftIf I ever get into those lodges, I’m going to demand, they take me to their ancient texts immediately, so I can debate it out, with the top Grandmasters. That’s where the true gnosis is at; enquires of the deepest mysteries, tested against the ideas and opinions of others, who are specialists in their fields.

I think thats a great plan! All of this denial by the freemasons must STOP NOW! I would imagine youd make a great opponant in that debate (what topic) Id have to be the moderator and pose the questions, or you could be the moderator and I the opponant to the Grand Master Wizard. Your first question should be; why do the Judaic call 'The Star of David' their own, when it is a union of the higher with the lower and originally was the hexogram of the Egyptians, symbolizing the bringing into ones physical life that force/god which created you (also a merkaba travel vehicle). I thought the one race disliked the other as were mistreated by and had to escape "Pharoah Let Us Go!"; (Moses elequent explaination in the biblical "Exodus"); why borrow their oppressive slavemaster/whippers hateful iconography and incorporate it as their own reinvention? While Im at it, who was Moses channeling, he would have been the very first "New Ager".

edit on 16-2-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

The Freemasons and pretty much every organized spiritual/religion in the world borrowed from the Universal Knowledge of the Spiritual. You can't claim anything your own, since all knowledge and wisdom belongs to the ONE Consciousness that is God. With that, the "Star of David" is the Star Tetrahedron or the Hexagram shaped field (Mer Ka Ba) around your body that connects to the Christ Mind. Everybody has one except it is dormant and is not used hardly at all by most of us. This is why most people start to lose their memories when they get older, since the Tetrahedron is the storehouse of your knowledge from all past lives and knowledge of creation itself, therefore the Christ Consciousness. I have talked about the Christ Mind in the past so I won't elaborate here. The Mer Ka Ba can also transport you through other dimensions as Vethumanbeing mentioned, as true Gnostics have this knowledge.

Moses was channeling or talked to two different beings in the Bible. People just didn't realize it since the Bible has been mistranslated and changed for quite some time now. The first being he spoke to was Yahweh or Jehovah as some would call him. The other was the Greek god known as Poseidon. Although Poseidon wasn't really Greek, he was just the watcher of the seas. Yahweh watched over the Earth, while Poseidon watched over the waters. This is why when Moses summoned Poseidon, the Red Sea split in half.

reply to post by ctophil

There is nothing I can add to this ctophil as it is perfect and sound knowledge, spoken like a true Adept which I suspect you are. Okay I will add just one thing, for anyone interested, "The Law of One" is available to download FREE; material channeled by RA, and who is he or it? I suspect the idolized Egyptian Sun/Son God, Ra (is very influenciencial in political circles of that era), regarding the growing of crops and other minor things; could be a fluke accidently having the same name and all.

ctophil
vethumanbeing
ctophil
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

ctophilMoses was channeling or talked to two different beings in the Bible. People just didn't realize it since the Bible has been mistranslated and changed for quite some time now. The first being he spoke to was Yahweh or Jehovah as some would call him. The other was the Greek god known as Poseidon. Although Poseidon wasn't really Greek, he was just the watcher of the seas. Yahweh watched over the Earth, while Poseidon watched over the waters. This is why when Moses summoned Poseidon, the Red Sea split in half.

I KNEW IT MOSES IS THE VERY FIRST NEWAGER (cheeky obfuscator), channeling Yahweh, or EN.LIL Anu's eldest son ruler of land and air, and Poseidon? (did not know this) another son EN.KI ruler of the seas also known as E.A. Should add, ANU was considered by Sumarians to be THE supreme diety.

In exact repeating:
This sounds suspiciously like the ORIGINAL Sumarian? Annunaki God Brothers Enlil and Enki, equator lines drawn, one ruled the sea or metaphorically the lower hemisphere equator line, the other the upper hemisphere, air and land (the disagreements and battles those two had with each other, but what would you expect both wanting total CONTROL or different outcomes for earth and its species). If one wants to speak of borrowing from the Christ Consciousness or the "Tipharet" #6 on the tree of life Qabalah this is a prime example. Some knowledge (not Kether#1 no way) is up for grabs (or more politely stated); is available and/or exchanged to suite the growth of any civilization or individual once gotten past Yesod, (ego, subconscious).

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Not the whole lodge; just the one being initiated..how to tell only one? because of the bare footprints (2) observed walking on the carpet up to the altar (after the ritual "let there be light" 's on).
The others traveled roundabouts at the temples edges. It was a Jobs Daughter that partook of shook/shake of the hands of those entering.

“Not the whole lodge; just the one being initiated!”

Phew; slight improvement, but hey, no thanks lol
“Enough of this foolishness, take me to your ancient texts”, would be my reply…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
If sharing a bed with either 'Dell', or Steve Martin in a rundown 39.99 cash a night (or your rolex wristwatch as payment) roadhouse motel Id say a definate maybe.

Thanks for sharing that with us lol

Moving swiftly on…

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I think thats a great plan! All of this denial by the freemasons must STOP NOW! I would imagine youd make a great opponant in that debate (what topic) Id have to be the moderator and pose the questions, or you could be the moderator and I the opponant to the Grand Master Wizard.

Well, if my unique thoughts are having an influence on those who are 33 degree Masons already, then yes, I must be considered a worthy opponent.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Your first question should be; why do the Judaic call 'The Star of David' their own, when it is a union of the higher with the lower and originally was the hexogram of the Egyptians, symbolizing the bringing into ones physical life that force/god which created you (also a merkaba travel vehicle).

Yeah, good question indeed, why hang on to your slave masters, emblems, unless you accepted them yourself. It’s a good first question, And it may be equalled or bested by this one…. Why would the Hebrews continue using the Winged Disc symbol of the Egyptians, in some of their scrolls?

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I thought the one race disliked the other as were mistreated by and had to escape "Pharoah Let Us Go!"; (Moses elequent explaination in the biblical "Exodus"); why borrow their oppressive slavemaster/whippers hateful iconography and incorporate it as their own reinvention? While Im at it, who was Moses channeling, he would have been the very first "New Ager".

Well, the story goes that Moses was raised by the Egyptians and learned all their secrets as a child growing up. Later he finds out who his real people are, and decided to help them escape, along with the Ark, which strangely enough has 2 cherubim of decorative art above it. Which just so happens to look pretty similar to the Winged Disc symbol. Strange. Funny thing is, that symbol turns up, in the most unlikely of movies, that you would never have guessed.


- JC

vethumanbeing
reply to post by ctophil

 

There is nothing I can add to this ctophil as it is perfect and sound knowledge, spoken like a true Adept which I suspect you are. Okay I will add just one thing, for anyone interested, "The Law of One" is available to download FREE; material channeled by RA, and who is he or it? I suspect the idolized Egyptian Sun/Son God, Ra (is very influenciencial in political circles of that era), regarding the growing of crops and other minor things; could be a fluke accidently having the same name and all.

edit on 17-2-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

The Egyptian High Priest, Ra-Ta, was one of the 3 most great ascended beings who came from Atlantis. The other two were Masters Toth and Araragat. The 3 built the Pyramid of Giza, as well as rebuilt the Mer Ka Ba grids of Earth (yes, the planet has its own Mer Ka Ba). His name was changed to simply Ra later on when the people of Egypt saw him as God for re-establishing Egypt into a more peaceful country, both religiously and politically. Ra means "God" in Egyptian. There were groups of people who worshiped the Sun, which is in direct contrast to what Ra was teaching--the Law of One (Oneness with God). He also established the Temple of Sacrifice (Hospital) and Temple Beautiful (Spiritual Mystery School). The Ra channeled material in the early 1980s were from this Ra-Ta priest that you are reading today as the Law of One.

vethumanbeing
ctophil
vethumanbeing
ctophil
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing

 

ctophilMoses was channeling or talked to two different beings in the Bible. People just didn't realize it since the Bible has been mistranslated and changed for quite some time now. The first being he spoke to was Yahweh or Jehovah as some would call him. The other was the Greek god known as Poseidon. Although Poseidon wasn't really Greek, he was just the watcher of the seas. Yahweh watched over the Earth, while Poseidon watched over the waters. This is why when Moses summoned Poseidon, the Red Sea split in half.

I KNEW IT MOSES IS THE VERY FIRST NEWAGER (cheeky obfuscator), channeling Yahweh, or EN.LIL Anu's eldest son ruler of land and air, and Poseidon? (did not know this) another son EN.KI ruler of the seas also known as E.A. Should add, ANU was considered by Sumarians to be THE supreme diety.

In exact repeating:
This sounds suspiciously like the ORIGINAL Sumarian? Annunaki God Brothers Enlil and Enki, equator lines drawn, one ruled the sea or metaphorically the lower hemisphere equator line, the other the upper hemisphere, air and land (the disagreements and battles those two had with each other, but what would you expect both wanting total CONTROL or different outcomes for earth and its species). If one wants to speak of borrowing from the Christ Consciousness or the "Tipharet" #6 on the tree of life Qabalah this is a prime example. Some knowledge (not Kether#1 no way) is up for grabs (or more politely stated); is available and/or exchanged to suite the growth of any civilization or individual once gotten past Yesod, (ego, subconscious).

edit on 17-2-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

You are correct that Yahweh and Poseidon sounds similar to Enlil and Enki respectively of the Sumerian Legends. Probably because they are the same entities just different names assigned by various cultures. The name, Yahweh, came from the Hebrews (a rather old race dating back at around the time of Atlantis). So, it's not his original name. Yahweh is the same entity as Enlil, Zeus, or Jupiter. Poseidon is the same entity as Neptune in Rome. The father of Enlil and Enki was Anu, also known as Kronos or Cronus in Greece or Saturn in Rome. People may not know this but the Hebrews (Israelites) worship Yahweh, while the Jews worship Saturn or Anu (hence, the Sabbath being on Saturn Day or Saturday). There is a great mixture of religious beliefs between the two entities in their elite religious ranks.

As you can see, all this "mythology" are actually facts that really did happen about 300,000 years ago (dawn of human beings you see today). The history of Earth is a lot longer than that (3.5 Billion years). There were, indeed, other types of races on Earth before that. But those people have since ascended, and you will no longer see them in the dense 3rd dimension.

wildtimes
Rex282................
Bottom line.If someone wants to believe in Gnosticism...best of luck.However it is 100% incorrect to think Yahoshua was a Gnostic or Essene or anything religious at all.He was not "teaching" a religion or even a morality or ethic.It was 100% proclamation of Truth that NONE can understand...now there's a conundrum for ya!

wildtimes...............
100% incorrect, eh?

I don't think it's possible to be any more clear...yes .....100% incorrect.The common fallacy is to project beliefs on others.Yahoshua has been "projected" upon so many times there is nothing left.It is a phantom person that doesn't exist named "Jesus" of "my religion"...and I don't just mean Christianity.Jesus is also a part of your religion(your belief system) from things I have seen you write on ATS and specifically this thread.You "believe" he was a Gnostic and "taught" gnosticism...and that is incorrect.

wildtimes
What's to "believe in"? When I use the term, I define it as personal knowledge, acquired independently, by introspection rather than 'revealed to others'. It means looking within - knowing oneself, and recognizing our place - whatever it is - in the cosmos. I do not think Jesus was trying to start a "religion." I agree with you on that point. He was outspoken about the priests and temples - and encouraged people to SEEK WITHIN.

Can you see the contradiction in this statement.You said "believe in" is personal knowledge acquired independently by introspection and you then sent me to a bunch of links of "knowledge" ...revealed by others!!

I'm pretty sure I know what you "meant" to say however it is impossible to escape "religious" doctrines.They are innate to mankind's nature.Everyone has them.It is their Belief System (BS)....THEIR religion.People seek "God" or truth through their religion...what they will find is exactly what they are looking for no matter how vague the notion or specific.It may get modified or be serendipitous however it will be what they seek.It is human nature.Mankind "sees" what they want to see.That is the basis of how "seeing" color works.Nothing is the color that we perceive it to be. As a matter of fact it is every color BUT what it appears to be because it is reflecting that color(what you believe it to be).

The fact is Yahoshua did not teach... he proclaimed the coming of the Kingdom of the creator God that comes "without" observation (measurement... SEEKING!!!) it is neither here nor there..it is IN your midst.That has been twisted into one of the cores of the "teaching" that God or the truth or "heaven" is inside of you if you'd just "seek".....which is absolutely false.He was not "teaching" to "seek" within at all he said was his usual proclamation.....the Kingdom of the creator God comes WITHOUT observation because it is in your midst.That IS NOT some esoteric cabal /gnostic teaching it is proclamation of the Truth.The most significant experiment of quantum physics is the double slit which proclaims essentially the same thing.Particles are perceived to be neither here not there "fixed" in space-time until they are observed.

The jews Yahoshua told this to were "seeking" a Kingdom of God on Earth in the physical realm where Yahoshua "proclaimed to them The Kingdom of the creator God is NOT a place(here nor there) or even an esoteric teaching construct (comes "without" observation).The Kingdom of the creator God is in your midst it is already present but not perceived. A simple analogy would be cartoons.It is "world" within this world.It only has 2 dimensions and cannot "perceive" depth.In other words no one in it can perceive by observation by any "effort" OUTSIDE of their 2D perception.It is "IN" the midst of their 2D world but not perceivable.

That being said ..however if you seek a God or The Truth you will find a God and or truth in "you" or outside of you (here and there)..and that God IS you and the "truth" is your truths! unfortunately that ain't the creator God in the least nor The Truth but I guarantee anyone seeking God "inside" themselves will definitely find a God there(or no God)...or outside in other forms of religion..the same with truth...a man only sees what he wants to see.You see ripe bananas as the color yellow yet in reality they are not yellow at all they are every color but yellow.

If Jesus was agnostic or Essene and was such a great "teacher" how come most of what he taught is a dichotomy wrapped in a conundrum smothered in dilemma sauce!!The obvious answer is..he WASN"T teaching.If he was so wise he was a damn crappy teacher to mostly confuse those he taught and they "believed" they understood what he taught!..
The clear fact is Yahoshua was not a Gnostic of ANY kind nor an Essene nor even a Jew(ask any of those Jewish religious leaders and they would say he wasn't and that would be the only thing they got right). Yahoshua is not "teaching" a method or system or religion or hidden knowledge of how to live.Nor did he teach "live" like me and you can ascend into the higher realm of existence or any thing religious at all!He proclaimed the coming of the Kingdom of the creator God the Father and the freedom of those(EVERYONE) enslaved from bondage(freedom from bondage is the meaning of forgiveness.... not pardoned of guilt).That freedom of bondage has a multitude of applications the most significant is freed from the bondage of physical death!

The fact is.....this whole world (universe/ physical realm) is shrouded in blindness.Mankind believes they see things colored yellow when in fact they are everything but yellow but it is impossible to "convince" their brain that it isn't seeing "real" yellow it is only perceiving it...falsely.The dilemma is everyone's "perception" is based in "their belief system"... their religion.Is it any wonder there are 6 billion different beliefs all at odds to each other in some way.Some may be "herd" religious beliefs like Christianity however everyone of them will have a different belief system.Everyone's "perception" of reality is different even though many things are "herd" perceptions(color).

contd...

My point is Gnosticism and its teachings were around before Yahoshua however he neither studied nor taught gnosticism in any form because he was not a Gnostic in any way especially the way he is painted as one.Just because he proclaimed common sense morals and ethics (which is the core of what most people think he taught) and so did some gnostics doesn't make him a gnostic.I'll leave you for now (I wrote much more on this query alone) with a thought on the most misquoted misunderstood thing Yahoshua said about The Truth.....emphasis mine...

If you continue in my word THEN you are IN truth my disciple THEN you will KNOW the Truth and THEN the Truth will make you free."

Notice there is not one word or even hint of "believe" or seeking or of teaching hidden esoteric knowledge only...Know...which is the crux of this thread.Gnosis...however he is not talking about that "gnosis" because he has continually said it is unseekable and "knowing" only "comes" ONE way.Through the revelation from the creator God....period..no exceptions..exclamation point.How does one "obtain" this "knowledge?...they can't....and that's the REAL point.There is no obtaining...seeking is futile!Religion is all "belief"(no matter if you call it knowledge or not)..it is IMPOSSIBLE to "know" when you believe. The core definitions of belief is lack of knowledge!!

The scriptures main purpose as WORDS is a "testimony" of Yahoshua(said by Yahoshua himself to religious Pharisees who sought the Truth by studying/seeking gnosis).All of their work DID NOT(and will not) reveal knowledge of the Truth.That is a human construct of religion dogma and doctrines.If books or teachers could impart knowledge IN Truth then EVERYONE who reads or studies it would KNOW the SAME truth yet they don't.This same truth is true of all books of "knowledge"or teachers of "gnosis". The knowledge of THE Truth can ONLY be revealed by the author...the creator God.

I apologize for my tardiness and length of this post even though this is only the tip.If you want me to address you other statements I will.

To summarize and clarify.I am NOT trying to convince any one of the truth.That is impossible.I am only stating what it is in relationship to the many false statements in this thread and it is simply Yahoshua was not a gnostic teacher (or any other religious construct).He was not "teaching" a religion he was proclaiming The Truth.The coming of the Kingdom of the creator God IN your midst.You were correct (as Yahoshua was ) many will not perceive it in this physical realm.That doesn't disqualify anyone from "entering" in.It is a given.THAT'S The Good News. However Yahoshua does not explain the details because there was no reason to.Even the very little that is recorded of what he said is not understood because it can't be.In effect his "words" were 3 dimensional spoken in a 2 dimensional world.The 3rd dimension is missing and can never be perceived in the 2D world.Only the creator can reveal to the creation.Not gnostics.

reply to post by Rex282

My point is Gnosticism and its teachings were around before Yahoshua however he neither studied nor taught gnosticism in any form because he was not a Gnostic in any way especially the way he is painted as one.

But...how do you know that he didn't?

There are several missing "years" from his biography.
And there is evidence that he was travelling during those years.

reply to post by wildtimes

And there is evidence that he was travelling during those years.

What evidence is that?

The only thing in the Bible is the incident at the Temple, and then a reference that might indicate he worked with his father as an apprentice carpenter in Nazareth.

Other than that, I've never seen a credible source claim anything about Jesus' "missing years," from infancy to the beginning of his three year mission.

wildtimes
reply to post by Rex282

 

My point is Gnosticism and its teachings were around before Yahoshua however he neither studied nor taught gnosticism in any form because he was not a Gnostic in any way especially the way he is painted as one.

But...how do you know that he didn't?

There are several missing "years" from his biography.
And there is evidence that he was travelling during those years.

Because the new testament writings are the main source of Yahoshua's history.The things you're alluding to are extrapolations that are with even more lack of evidence than the majority of all the "teachings" of Yahoshua.Those extrapolations fit an religious agenda" of belief.Maybe the majority of all the other "teachers" of enlightenment studied or had epiphanies however Yahoshua never said anything like that.The Jewish leaders wondered how he knew so much about the scriptures yet he wasn't studied....which is the evidence he was neither a Jewish "rabbi" of the Jewish religion or a "religious" Jew.

These extrapolations of "what" and who someone is are similar to things like "Lucifer"(which the word it was translated from is used once in all of the scriptures and is not a proper name) who "became" Satan after he rebelled against God and is the "God" of this world blah blah blah....Yet there are BILLIONS that believe it is TRUTH because the "bible"(or their teachers) says it...yet there is nothing in the scriptures that say that.It is religious extrapolation "theory" to fit a doctrine of "religion".

If anyone wants to know "reasonably" who Yahoshua said he was the main source of "writing" is the New testament ... NOT the religious extrapolations that make him into a"religious" leader guru with gnostic knowledge from the Essenes or a descended master or anything else religion belives.,I am not condemong or putting you or anyone else down These false beliefs are the norm for most people because EVERYONE believes "their own" religious doctrines.

As I already said Yahoshua stated he did "nothing or knew nothing except what he received from the creator God the Father.It didn't just "happen" one day.He knew his entire life.It was "normal" to him.I know he didn't study to do any of the other "religious' things attributed falsely to him because that records of that "Jesus" doesn't harmonize with him at all.

Everyone has their own "personal Jesus" belief "(or non belief) which is not based in fact.It's amazing that the most "known" person to ever walk the face of the earth wrote NOTHING about himself and what was written of him is very little yet so many believe they know who he was or wasn't.

It is very easy to obtain what is written of him .It's in the new testament writings. There are no original copies of those records so... reader beware.Of what is available none of it says ANYTHING about his life from about 12 to 30.Everything in that period of his life would be mere speculation of "belief".

The reason for that lapse of his history was probably because he was just LIVING a normal life.He wasn't "studying" or traveling or ascending between dimensions or any of that religious stuff.He was a man living the life of a "man".I hate to bring Ocams razor in the mix however it is very accurate here.

I see zero reason to speculate about those things because it is the reasonable thing to do.If it was so important Yahoshua would have said something about it yet he is mute..and he says his only source of what he "knew"(btw he NEVER said he believed!) or did was from the creator God the Father ...more than a few times.

By the records of what he said and did ... I see no reason to doubt it.On that note..The fact is Yahoshua never said anything about all this "spiritual" hullabaloo...less "teach" about it.Those are all the doctrines of mens religion foisted on him.In the records of what he said and did he never said one thing about "spirituality" yet there are BILLIONS that believe he did!

If I didn't experience these"beliefs" by other people everyday I would think I (or they are in another reality !!.The Truth of what we have of what was written is easily verifiable facts (accurate or not) yet the "telephone" talk of "religion" is to the point of insanity.

It has gone so far as there are BILLIONS of people on the planet right now that believe with ALL their heart that if you don't "believe" in "their'' Jesus( whatever that means) the creator God will sentence you forever and ever(which is obviously twice as long as forever) to eternally suffer the torture and punishment of HELL!..that is easily the most INSANE and heinous perverted belief ..ever.

Then on the "other side" is a myriad of mishmash of beliefs(and unbelief's) most of which are remnants and 'teachings" of "spiritual gurus" that they CLAIM Jesus is or ...may be one.Not heinous but equally ..incorrect.All of this is ample evidence that mankind is fatally "religious" and "believes" whatever the hell they want to believe!!..facts be damned...if the facts don't fit their theory ... change the facts!...

As I said I am not trying to convince anyone..that's impossible.For whomever is seeking The Truth it is only "reasonable"to seek "facts" not myth or fantasy however "the seeking" isn't what will reveal it ..only The Truth can do that(yes I understand the implication of an axiomatic dichotomy).What I've found about the Truth is .....it is very, very, very ..normal.There is zero hyperbole or fanfare.No song and dance of religion or "spirituality".It is ....what it IS.There is no "believing" it because there is no need to...The Truth can only be "known" ..not believed.

Reality is very different from mankind's false perception because it is ..REAL!There is NO belief(religion) ...it is ALL know(notice I didn't say ALL knowing)... there's no speculation of where "home" is.As soon as the flying monkeys(or pigs) appear that's when you SHOULD know you are in Oz and it's all a dream fantasy...then click your heels 3 times --- . . .

Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing


vethumanbeing
I think thats a great plan! All of this denial by the freemasons must STOP NOW! I would imagine youd make a great opponant in that debate (what topic) Id have to be the moderator and pose the questions, or you could be the moderator and I the opponant to the Grand Master Wizard.

Joecroft Well, if my unique thoughts are having an influence on those who are 33 degree Masons already, then yes, I must be considered a worthy opponent.

Indeed you would be worthy. It would be a 'scripture wars' an MMA cage fight to the finish, first man down wins.

vethumanbeing
Your first question should be; why do the Judaic call 'The Star of David' their own, when it is a union of the higher with the lower and originally was the hexogram of the Egyptians, symbolizing the bringing into ones physical life that force/god which created you (also a merkaba travel vehicle).

JoecroftYeah, good question indeed, why hang on to your slave masters, emblems, unless you accepted them yourself. It’s a good first question, And it may be equalled or bested by this one…. Why would the Hebrews continue using the Winged Disc symbol of the Egyptians, in some of their scrolls?

Not the sacred Holy Order of the Winged Disk; symbiology used by the Hebrews? did not know this, that is just plain plagerism at its worst (an entire belief system absconded with and reworked to suit another decade, century, millinium?). Why if hated would they take any rememberance of the Egyptians with them. I will tell you why they stole them before understanding all 12 covenants (needed to get out of Dodge so to speak) and conconcted this ridiculous story of them being enslaved when in fact were welcome "guests".

vethumanbeing
I thought the one race disliked the other as were mistreated by and had to escape "Pharoah Let Us Go!"; (Moses elequent explaination in the biblical "Exodus"); why borrow their oppressive slavemaster/whippers hateful iconography and incorporate it as their own reinvention? While Im at it, who was Moses channeling, he would have been the very first "New Ager".

JoecroftWell, the story goes that Moses was raised by the Egyptians and learned all their secrets as a child growing up. Later he finds out who his real people are, and decided to help them escape, along with the Ark, which strangely enough has 2 cherubim of decorative art above it. Which just so happens to look pretty similar to the Winged Disc symbol. Strange. Funny thing is, that symbol turns up, in the most unlikely of movies, that you would never have guessed.

I hope it never turned up in the classic stinker Howard Hughes film "The Conquerer" starring John Wayne as Genghis Khan, and that pursed lipped Rita Hayworth? (looks to always be smelling something foul). I was told by a little bird today that the Ark of the Covenant held a battery and if one touched it would be shocked to death (kept the Jews in line for 40 years out there in the desert). Personally think there were some uranium isotopes involved as well; no other reason for it to be encased in gold "Ur"as the city or original place of origin. I doubt Moses was initiated to the level of 'adept', but it makes sense he had some exposure or had a basic knowledge of the "winged disk"; (Zorastoran/Akkadian/Sumarian originally) 'a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing' and Moses is probably the original author of/for this very wise and timeless saying (repeated orally and physically demonstrated to this day).

wildtimes
reply to post by Rex282

rex282My point is Gnosticism and its teachings were around before Yahoshua however he neither studied nor taught gnosticism in any form because he was not a Gnostic in any way especially the way he is painted as one.

Oh you mean literally painted? No cartoon bubble above his head in daVinci's Last Supper printed "I am the Son of God (and a gnostic as well)". He did not teach the esoteric school of wisdom because his constituancy would have been entirely confused. This is not something you speak about casually having a coffee at Buckstars. Its a intense concerted focused discapline. Of course he was a Gnostic Essene; he studied at Qumran during what you would interpret as some of the lost years. The rest he traveled with Joseph of Aramethiea to other parts of the world, India, Great Britian; we are speaking of 20 years incognito (pretty sure he did not run away to join the circus).

Rex282
To summarize and clarify.I am NOT trying to convince any one of the truth.That is impossible.I am only stating what it is in relationship to the many false statements in this thread and it is simply Yahoshua was not a gnostic teacher (or any other religious construct).He was not "teaching" a religion he was proclaiming The Truth.The coming of the Kingdom of the creator God IN your midst.You were correct (as Yahoshua was ) many will not perceive it in this physical realm.That doesn't disqualify anyone from "entering" in.It is a given.THAT'S The Good News. However Yahoshua does not explain the details because there was no reason to.Even the very little that is recorded of what he said is not understood because it can't be.In effect his "words" were 3 dimensional spoken in a 2 dimensional world.The 3rd dimension is missing and can never be perceived in the 2D world.Only the creator can reveal to the creation.Not gnostics.

Thankyou for the summerizing and clarification.
WHAT? 'YAHOOS' words were 3 dimensional spoken in a 2 dimensional world? You mean he was speaking to an x/y dimensional (theoretical) peice of paper with no other coordinants expressing/discribing width or heighth; how would they hear the vocalizations? Who/what in the second dimension other than inked words scrawled upon it (theories as lifeforms; NO I doubt it). "Only the creator can reveal to the creation". Creator has nothing to do with individual soul progression; thats for those brave enough to determine for themselves (figure out his God sourse exists and its/your relationship to it). When was the 3rd dimension misplaced, last time I checked it was in good working order (lemme run go see). You have such a misguided interpretation of the ideaform/interpretation of the mystery schools; 'gnostic' and what it entails (here is a clue it is not a belief system or a religion); and cannot be taught as it is all about SELF (or getting rid of egocentic behaviors) discovery.

vethumanbeing
......................
You have such a misguided interpretation of the ideaform/interpretation of the mystery schools; 'gnostic' and what it entails (here is a clue it is not a belief system or a religion); and cannot be taught as it is all about SELF (or getting rid of egocentic behaviors) discovery.

edit on 18-2-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

lions and tigers and EGO's OH MY!!