Edward Snowden tells German TV that NSA is involved in industrial espionage

boncho

Yep.

www.theverge.com...

While officials reportedly told the Times that the devices are mainly intended for defense, their first big test was as part of an attack. According to the publication, the bugs were first used to map out the inner workings of the Natanz uranium enrichment plant in Iran, setting up for the Stuxnet computer worm that eventually sabotaged the facility's centrifuges and crippled Iran's nuclear program. The Times writes that it knew about the technology when it reported on Stuxnet in the summer of 2012, but withheld details at the request of US intelligence officials.

And why does Iran have sanctions? Why is it pushing for nuclear power. Not because its human rights abuses, nor its nuclear intentions. But because of who its allied with.

There are plenty of examples of west supporting dictatorships so long as they are business friendly to US companies. Israel also has nukes in that region, (at least widely believed to)…

www.theguardian.com...



I am not making judgements on any of this, merely postulating that the official version of events doesn't make sense, never has…

In regards to Iran, you are right that it doesn't make sense. You are right to question EVERYTHING.... I wish more people would. I wish they would also question Benghazi. I wish they would question Boston. And so much more....

But this does NOT go back to global billionaires. Many of them are also uncomfortable targets who are not pleased with the US. But given the way their companies are financially tied to the US in some way, they can't exactly push for open sanctions against the US. That'd be shooting themselves in the foot.

rangerdanger
We're all too fat and lazy to revolutionize.
Personally, I'm not surprised by this "revelation".

A fact that many people count on.

phinubian
reply to post by intrptr

 

I actually had the pleasure to serve in a mechanized infantry division my friend, 4th id, I doubt you have anything close in your basement lOL.

Couldn't "take" Washington with one either. Respectfully, I was clowning the OP about the lack of Americans "revolutionary spirit".

How about you? Think we could crank yours up and roll, lOL?

I'll ride on the front of the lead element. Yu can strap me on the "hood".

reply to post by rangerdanger


You have that one right, the moment that TARP was passed and they (us, the people) let the wool get pulled over their eyes when the treasury secretary made it sound like the sky was falling, I think that was the moment for me that proved capitalism is really working, you know why ? that is the very moment that anyone with good sense would have been down there on the mall long before occupy, protesting, what does this have to do about the thread ? well I wanted add something else to a question posed on the 3 letter agency spying.

What are Americans going to do about it ? my answer is , absolutely nothing, people are too worried about the "me" the "mine" and the "I", and not the "We The People" they forgot about that, the roof over your head, your job are too valuable to the needs hierarchy in today's society, why would you put that all on the line to pick up a Pickett sign, protest etc and possibly run the risk of arrest or something along those lines., yes my friends, capitalism is working, we are more focused on our own individual situations and really are not putting our necks out there for any valid cause anymore, very sad indeed.

reply to post by phinubian

…and understand what the world of espionage is really about .

Hold on there General. Espionage or an act of espionage is defined as employing an agent (or spy) in a willful act of stealing secrets from a corporation, the military or the government and providing them to the enemy.

All he did was expose illegal acts of eavesdropping by the US Government. Not only on its own citizens but many countries (allies even) around the world.

There is a big "legal" difference… But I get it. Its okay for the US to do it, just not get caught, exposed or (whistled on).

Espionage

reply to post by CIAGypsy

And I stand by what I said... There isn't collusion between the global billionaires and the spy program. Do you honestly think the global billionaires TRUST the NSA or the US Government? Hells no, they don't... But those within the US...such as Microsoft....have found their compliance hamstringed through other measures (i.e. lucrative contracts) which has created a Public Relations problem. They have found themselves in a position where they must now DEFEND the spy program.

The US Govt is like a cheating spouse. If they cheat WITH YOU, then they will cheat ON YOU. If you don't think that multi-national corporations don't know that, then you are living a pipe dream.

Global billionaires and politicians are so hand in hand they may as well be filming the bachelor. I am sure some companies were strong-armed with compliance, and some were willing participants, the bottom line is it's going to benefit someone in the end, and that end is a corporation and the controlling interests, who just happen to also be politicians or friends and family of.

Similar to oligarchy rule.

It's not much different anywhere else, the US just happens to be one of the few places they completely deny it and chalk up everything to freedom and democracy.

reply to post by intrptr


You are correct and I do not disagree, I was saying this as in Snowden might not really understand what the world and the art of espionage means or is about, as in this type of thing happens every day, you know Spy VS Spy ? he is either naive about it or he has some other agenda and wants to expose this one facet of intricate spying programs the U.S. more than likely has.

He is not taking into account the full scope of what goes on, and foolishly even though he does not think so, exposed this to the world, I never quite accused anyone of espionage, although he did.

MessageforAll


Or do they even manage to screw up with prior knowledge?

9/11 comes to mind lol

CIAGypsy

smurfy

It's not going to be just Americans, here in the UK people are saying enough is enough. And since you mention Siemens, that is a big company and within that, they manufacture all kinds of stuff for motor vehicles, a lot of which is computer controlled. So, they could still have counter intelligence in mind too.

Informed response....because I can tell you for certain that the US is not alone in this type of surveillance. Every modernized country does the same thing - Britain, France, Germany, China, and more....

Okay, just to put meat on the bones, vis-a-vis the counter-intelligence part. Siemens do the biz for the car keyfob, the smartkey, keyless entry whatever you want to call it, some fobs in top-end cars at least are very sophisticated for many makes of vehicle and all that stuff is unique to the vehicle. If the NSA, (and friends) are able to access Siemens databanks, and they will have databanks, they will have rolling information on that vehicle, and it's likely owner in real time, and possibly be able to manipulate the vehicle in some ways. Further reading,

en.wikipedia.org...

General, en.wikipedia.org...

Its funny the founding farthers you yanks so love and admire rebelled over tyranny that was far less

crazyewok
Its funny the founding farthers you yanks so love and admire rebelled over tyranny that was far less

Yes, sad.... Isn't it?

Another reason why I am not really sorry about what is coming.... I'm sure people on ATS can chew on that statement, but it really isn't the time or place to elaborate.

phinubian
reply to post by intrptr

 

You are correct and I do not disagree, I was saying this as in Snowden might not really understand what the world and the art of espionage means or is about, as in this type of thing happens every day, you know Spy VS Spy ? he is either naive about it or he has some other agenda and wants to expose this one facet of intricate spying programs the U.S. more than likely has.

He is not taking into account the full scope of what goes on, and foolishly even though he does not think so, exposed this to the world, I never quite accused anyone of espionage, although he did.

Of course Snowden knows the full scope of what goes on, and what he is doing is to give fair warning to just about every soul who just want to go about a daily life in peace, that just about everything that they use can compromise them in some way, and sometimes at a whim, and it doesn't get worse than that.

boncho


I didn't make any definitive statements, but you seem to think collusion between business and the spying program is unfounded, even in your own threads when it's being reported from Snowden.

If it isn't for controlling markets, what the hell is industrial espionage for?

It is for controlling the Global Markets for the Big Corporations along with their use of the military to do the same.
They tell us the worth we are paid is based on the markets that they have rigged both foreign and domestically.

It is a controlled market for the rich and a "free market" for everyone else.

reply to post by crazyewok


Actually they were hanging "traitors to the crown". Plus Englamd was/ is based overseas. Lot easier to defeat with a giant moat between you and your oppressors.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


They definitely knew that the child (Early America) could grow to be the father or mother (Britain) and they also knew in order to not have the same tyranny as they were subjected to under British rule they had to put the checks and balances in place, to avoid what could possibly manifest again at some point in the democratic structure, what they did not see was the ability of the lawmakers to completely use every loophole available to circumvent the constitution and also never have seen the broad executive powers that could be used to trump their intentions.

I think mostly, that they could not see the patriot act, could not see the gradual erosion happening to individual rights that will ultimately cause the child to manifest as the father they wanted to escape but in this instance, there is nowhere for the people to flee to away from what they view as the oppressor and most definitely did not see the Federal Reserve Act of 1933 or the establishment of the IRS in 1956, the world grew to be a much different one than they could have imagined, some might disagree but that is the truth of the matter, it's a far cry from 1776, the macroscope has become the microscope inverted on "We The People" and it looks like nothing is going to happen to change it, this will only become and increasing and tightening noose upon individual freedom until the NWO is ushered in completely.

crazyewok
Its funny the founding fathers you yanks so love and admire rebelled over tyranny that was far less

At the same time to be fair, you handed over your firearms like cowards to your masters, your masters in The International Banks. Course, you don't speak for the British anyway, you don't speak for the British people whatsoever you deceiver, so shut your mouth. We support, and know many who do not think like an android like yourself does.

The truth is, you're just trying to piss us Americans off, why that is I don't understand my friend. It is sad when you desperately try to attempt to represent Great Britain concerning this subject, cause you don't, you're a divider, and you're trying to stir up trouble.

We understand that a confused, misled person like yourself does not speak for our friends. ~$heopleNation

SheopleNation

crazyewok
Its funny the founding fathers you yanks so love and admire rebelled over tyranny that was far less

At the same time to be fair, you handed over your firearms like cowards to your masters, your masters in The International Banks. Course, you don't speak for the British anyway, you don't speak for the British people whatsoever you deceiver, so shut your mouth. We support, and know many who do not think like an android like yourself does.

The truth is, you're just trying to piss us Americans off, why that is I don't understand my friend. It is sad when you desperately try to attempt to represent Great Britain concerning this subject, cause you don't, you're a divider, and you're trying to stir up trouble.

We understand that a confused, misled person like yourself does not speak for our friends.

~$heopleNation

Trust ATS for someone to completly abd utterly miss the point.

My point is why havent you american used your guns already to rise up and take the goverment down a peg or too. Your founding fathers would have done it years ago, they did it over a few light taxes! A overbearing spy state? They are likely spinning in thefe graves!

Whats the point of haveing the right to bear arms if you dont use it? Sitting at home stroking your AR 15 like a baby is pointless. Unless you use the guns your up the same s... creek as britain. If anything your the cowards, you have the means to march on DC right now and force change yet you all just sit at home and eat twinkies and watch pop idol.

I am utterly amazed that Snowden has had to point out the obvious about the NSA Big Ears scandal.

Does anyone in their right mind think that the NSA were actually listening to everbodies everyday yak. 'Darling get some milk on the way home'. etc etc

Big ears doesn't listen to trivia its always been about trade secrets, business ideas and whatever makes money. The fact a few terrorists are about and if anything like the UK ones were shown around our parliament a day or so before they were arrested and I will leave anyone interested in that nonsense to look it up for themselves


Terrorism is still a side issue, its an excuse to tighten the grip of the super rich on the rest of the exploited so no-one has any power to alter the status quo. With the laws tbhat are in place people are pretty powerless. Fortunaterly in the UK it was noticed that the alteration to the ASBOS would have criminalised anyone making a protest was nipped in the bud, but had it been passed we would all have been totally negated.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Cia the average Joe wont care because he doesn't own a company. You on the other hand owning a company or two should be concerned/

reply to post by CIAGypsy


There you have it. It's about the money. It's always about the money.

F&S