my thoughts about jesus and god.. and questions to the more experienced.

they say jesus was equal to God the Father, by claiming he was the son of god they say that means he was equal to god.
but I dont believe that. Jesus said "my father is greater than I." ...... But he also said "if you've seen me then you've seen the father."

So im confused.

Was jesus equal to god or was he god himself? i've ALWAYS ever since i was younger, thought that i understood that God the Father was , so to say, Above jesus..

If jesus is god who is the child that is brought up to god in revelation?

how can jesus be a duplicate of God the Father?

I dont really understand the Trinity of the holy spirit, god, and jesus... three persons in one...

Maybe some of the biblical experts here on ats can clarify some of this for me, as i am just trying to ask honest questions about jesus.

I believe in a creator of the universe, and as some of the jews in my family say " god the father , king of the universe."
(i come from a family where catholics on my dads side have married jewish believers.)

I personally thought it was dangerous to place jesus as equal to god, and i have a hard time believing he was god in the flesh.
I can accept him as God's Son and all...in the new testament God had directly spoken to the apostles and told them to listen to jesus as he was his son..

Personally, Jesus' message of peace and love is something I idolize, but i do not Idolize jesus as many people in the churches today do. but they also say jesus came with a "sword of his mouth."

If i met jesus and had a chance to talk to him about all of this, i wonder if he would be angry at me for not knowing the truth.

ive read most of the bible, but my memory is a little shotty.. i really like to read revelation and the gospel of matthew.

reply to post by Belcastro


why did the hebrews say that, to say you are god's son is to say you are equal to god?
in most monarchys the father is the king while the son is the prince...

reply to post by Belcastro


Jesus is God. He was God manifest in the flesh (John 1:14). Jesus is the name He was given when born to Mary here on Earth, but He has been known eternally as The Word. He is the 2nd part of the Trinity... The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit. We see in John 1..

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

So we see here that Jesus was with God in the beginning, and not only was He with God, but that He IS God, and ALL things were made by Him and through Him. We know this is Jesus, because as I mentioned before, when you get down to John 1:14 we see..

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Word became flesh... this is Jesus Christ... God manifest in the flesh.

We see the first mention of the Trinity in Genesis 1:26...

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Let US make man in OUR image. This is the Trinity. Being made in the image of God is not speaking to our physical looks or attributes. It is speaking to our spiritual creation. Just like God, we are a triune being... meaning that humans are body, soul, and spirit. My best advice to you if you are truly interested in this is to pick up a good study Bible and read the New Testament.

reply to post by Belcastro


I am not very religious, but I'm sure if you talked to Jesus he would not be "mad" at you, as such was not in his nature.

The term "son" is a humanistic interpretation mechanism to personify God in a form and terms humans can comprehend.

The holy trinity, as I understand it, are one and the same.

I'm sure those more scholarly than I in biblical studies will be of greater assistance.

Best of luck in your search for enlightenment.

reply to post by Belcastro


Also, The child in revelation that is being given birth to by the woman being chased by the dragon....
Is it foretelling the re-birth or Incarnation of the christ? as in the second time happening..

Belcastro
reply to post by Belcastro

 

why did the hebrews say that, to say you are god's son is to say you are equal to god?
in most monarchys the father is the king while the son is the prince...

Most of the Jews, including the religious leaders, did not believe that Jesus was who He claimed to be. They considered what Jesus was saying to be blasphemy.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


thanks, i frequently think of the text you quoted "in the beggining was the word...."

and that part of the bible makes me feel like jesus is God manifest on earth.

But still, personally im afraid to accept jesus as god, maybe not afraid.... but hesitant.

I think the world needs to witness modern day miracles , but also we shouldnt fall for false signs from demonic spirits.

reply to post by Belcastro

why did the hebrews say that, to say you are god's son is to say you are equal to god?
in most monarchys the father is the king while the son is the prince...

The King is Dead! Long live the King!

Belcastro
reply to post by Belcastro

 

Also, The child in revelation that is being given birth to by the woman being chased by the dragon....
Is it foretelling the re-birth or Incarnation of the christ? as in the second time happening..

The book of Revelation is full of metaphor and symbolism, especially in chapters 12 - 22. The child you speak of in chapter 12 is Jesus, and there are a few different opinions as to who the woman is. Some say that the woman represents the nation of Israel, while others say that it is Mary. Some say that the woman represents Eve, the Mother of all mankind. The dragon represents king Herod, because king Herod tried to kill Jesus when he was a young child (approx 2 years old) because Herod felt that his crown and authority would be threatened because of the fulfillment of the prophesy of the birth of the King of the Jews (Jesus).

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


i really wish i could understand revelation, i know alot of it is referable to other parts of the bible.
but its really hard to sit down and read the whole bible, study it, and KNOW what the stuff in revelation means.

when i was young my parents never brought religion into my life, they were agnostic basically.
so ive never really been taught about the bible, i just get interested and look into it on my own.

The dragon had seven heads 10 horns and seven crowns upon its head, how does that reference to king herod?



i assume that revelation references things in the old testament quite a bit.

Belcastro
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

thanks, i frequently think of the text you quoted "in the beggining was the word...."

and that part of the bible makes me feel like jesus is God manifest on earth.

But still, personally im afraid to accept jesus as god, maybe not afraid.... but hesitant.

I think the world needs to witness modern day miracles , but also we shouldnt fall for false signs from demonic spirits.

Jesus said to Thomas "You believe because you have seen me... blessed are those who believe but have not seen." Hebrews 11 defines faith as the evidence of that which is not seen. The point of the gospel of Jesus Christ is to believe in Him and have faith in Him, but faith wouldn't be required if there were proof that He is real, such as miracles and other obvious signs of His existence. The proof comes from having enough faith to accept Him as Savior and Lord of your life. The amazing peace and love that comes from believing in Jesus Christ is all the proof you will ever need. Romans 1:20 says "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." In other words, the proof of God's existence is all around you in His creation. God created us in His image, and we have a knowledge of His existence in our consciousness. The ones who choose not to believe ignore that, and unfortunately they do so at their own peril.

Belcastro
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

i really wish i could understand revelation, i know alot of it is referable to other parts of the bible.
but its really hard to sit down and read the whole bible, study it, and KNOW what the stuff in revelation means.

when i was young my parents never brought religion into my life, they were agnostic basically.
so ive never really been taught about the bible, i just get interested and look into it on my own.

The dragon had seven heads 10 horns and seven crowns upon its head, how does that reference to king herod?

edit on 23-1-2014 by Belcastro because: (no reason given)

i assume that revelation references things in the old testament quite a bit.

edit on 23-1-2014 by Belcastro because: (no reason given)

Well, if you are serious about understanding Revelation here is the best place to start

Here

This guy teaches one of the best series on Revelation that you will ever see.

reply to post by Belcastro


Dear Balcastro - you never have to fear Jesus being angry at you. Or God. Jesus knows what's in your heart and He wants all to come to Him. Not just to know who He is but to have a personal relationship with Him.

If you had a puppy would you get mad at it for chewing on your shoe? Some people do but remember it's a puppy and hasn't been taught that a shoe is not to chew. So it's not fair or even rational to get mad at the puppy. He just doesn't know any better. Jesus delights in you wanting to get to know Him. That is why God sent Him here - to stand in place for judgement by God. Jesus was perfect and He stood in our place so that God would judge Him instead of us. When God looks at us He sees Jesus and not us if that makes sense to you. Imagine a magic cloak that covers you and that the cloak removes all dirt. Now say you've just crawled through a mud pit and you are standing covered in mud. The cloak is thrown over you and when people see you all they see is you shining clean. This is how Jesus covers us with His perfection when God looks at us.

Yes the Trinity is equal power and knowledge shared between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This is a really hard concept to grasp, especially if one has been taught that God is more than Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I was raised the same way. But if you try to find explanations and try to find those passages in the Bible that match this concept it will eventually begin to make sense. It is so interesting to read the Bible and then find common sense explanations. Just be careful as even Christians don't agree on the same things. The only thing you really need be focused on is what Jesus did for you and if you accept Him as your savior then the rest will fall into place. When you accept that Jesus died for you and that He is your Lord and Savior then the Holy Spirit comes to live within you. You become connected to God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit spiritually. And you begin to naturally act and think with love in your heart and you begin to realize when the Holy Spirit is talking to you.

If you do read the Bible or try to learn more then pray beforehand that God will allow you to understand. The Bible is fascinating as it's part of our history not only spiritually but historically and the stories of people are so frustrating and hopeful and the book of Revelations is our future that is going to occur at any time.

Don't let Revelations scare you or confuse you. Much of what was written was written by Paul who had no idea of modern times, advanced war weapons, etc. We can see events in place now that were foretold to happen. And it's pretty cool how one day you understand a passage but then suddenly re-reading the same passages another time opens your understanding even more. If you're not a reader you can find lots of good sites online - just be careful to line what is being said up with the Bible. If it doesn't match the Bible then it's not true - when one is new to all this is can be easy to fall prey to nonsense or someone else's misunderstanding and then there are those who are purposely trying to lead others astray.

All the best!

reply to post by Belcastro


I think you already know the answers to your questions, but can't access that knowledge because it's state-specific knowledge. Your consciousness has to be in an altered state to know the answers, and then you re-member them.

Was jesus equal to god or was he god himself? i've ALWAYS ever since i was younger, thought that i understood that God the Father was , so to say, Above jesus..

Equal in merit or value but not in role or function.

All of life, and I mean all of observable reality from the microcosm to the macrocosm acts according to some form of functional hierarchy - as the humbler heavenly bodies orbit the greater giants, as a seed sprouts to a mighty giant oak, as the emboldened alpha wolf guides his pack, or as an atom, so full of potential energy and immense power is beholden to the strong nuclear force and electromagnetism ... so it goes that we all have a function that does not in any way imply a decrease in our merit or value.

That is as simple as I can put it according to my understanding of Scripture and the nature of the Godhead, and indeed the nature of the universe itself. I could expound, and it would only be to the extent that my meager abilities allow but I'd be more than happy to share my thoughts if you are interested.

Good question btw

While this may seem like a contradiciton, the scriptures actually provide the answer, and show us that Jesus' seemingly contradictory statements were anything but contradictory. He didn't say that the Father was greater than He because Jesus was not God. He said that because He came in the flesh, as a man, and as such was "below" God like all other men. Scripture tells us that Jesus came as a "bond-servant," or to serve mankind. It also says that He was given human nature, and therefore could be tempted by evil just like all other people. This was part of entire point of dying for our sins and whatnot.

One of the analogies that is often given to describe such a relationship is that of a man and his wife, at least in Biblical times. The man was the head of the household, and as such, was "above" the woman. However, they were still both considered equals. So while it might seem like a contradiction, given both our human nature and human understanding, and our failure of logic to understand things that go beyond what our brains are capable of processing, it is in fact not contradictory.

There are people out there who truly believe that we, as humans, are capable of understanding anything and everything that has or will ever take place in the universe, or outside of it, in the spiritual world. But that is quite arrogant. Wouldn't one think that humans couldn't understand all things about God and what He created, considering He is greater than us in all respects? We are made in His image, as the Bible says, bu this doesn't mean that humans have the same abilities, powers, or understanding. God would have the ability to understand all. Anything and everything. Humans don't have that, and therefore it is logical to conclude that there are going to be matters that we cannot comprehend.

reply to post by Belcastro


More fuel for your fire.

Matthew 27:46

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

reply to post by Belcastro


Thanks for asking and I'll give some of my thoughts on it later when I have a chance. Here are two videos I recommend that you check out:

7 minutes: The Trinity Explained - www.youtube.com...

I highly recommend this lecture: Michael Heiser - Two Powers of the Godhead: www.youtube.com...

EDIT: I just read the response above by ccseagull (www.abovetopsecret.com...) and I suggest you take heed to what's being said in that post. Many people on here are twisting the scriptures to fit their new age's teachings that are not supported by the Bible. For now I suggest you come directly to God and ask the Father to reveal his Son to you more fully. If you are really searching God will honor that request.

reply to post by Belcastro


Jesus prayed to God the Father who was in heaven and said his father was in heaven . They are ONE in spirit . Jesus honored God the Father by doing his will . Jesus was in in our minds half God half man . God formed his Son in the womb of a virtuous woman called Mary who he found acceptable in spirit and brought his Son up to do that which he once asked Abraham to do in the book of Genesis . Some may never realize why God asked Abraham to sacrifice his only son .Abraham sent away Ishmael remember . But God found that through Abraham man was worth Grace and Mercy .
After Jesus did the will of his Father he came into his Kingdom and sits [[ on the right hand of God the Father ]] . That should answer for ever more your question .

ExNihiloRed
reply to post by Belcastro

 

I am not very religious, but I'm sure if you talked to Jesus he would not be "mad" at you, as such was not in his nature.

The term "son" is a humanistic interpretation mechanism to personify God in a form and terms humans can comprehend.

The holy trinity, as I understand it, are one and the same.

I'm sure those more scholarly than I in biblical studies will be of greater assistance.

Best of luck in your search for enlightenment.

edit on 23-1-2014 by ExNihiloRed because: typo

He was pretty mad at the money changers in the temple!

ETA: That of course does not mean I think he'd be mad at the OP for asking questions