I read today that Scientist believe the fuel in reactor 3 has melted down into the groundwater..

UxoriousMagnus

crazyewok

the owlbear
reply to post by crazyewok

 

How far away do you live from one of these "safe" "infallible" nuclear power plants?

15 odd miles. So pretty near.

I dont see the issue. The modern reactors are bulit with multiple redundant systems so that if even more fails you have a dozen odd more that can kick in. The chance of all failing is astronomical. You would need a major earthquake to cause a catarophic failure. And in the UK we dont have major earthquakes.

and what about EMP burst or solar flare?

There are still automatic safety systems in place that don't require electricity, for example all of the control rods fall into the reactor, stopping the reaction because it's a gravity fed system.

Aazadan

UxoriousMagnus

crazyewok

the owlbear
reply to post by crazyewok

 

How far away do you live from one of these "safe" "infallible" nuclear power plants?

15 odd miles. So pretty near.

I dont see the issue. The modern reactors are bulit with multiple redundant systems so that if even more fails you have a dozen odd more that can kick in. The chance of all failing is astronomical. You would need a major earthquake to cause a catarophic failure. And in the UK we dont have major earthquakes.

and what about EMP burst or solar flare?

There are still automatic safety systems in place that don't require electricity, for example all of the control rods fall into the reactor, stopping the reaction because it's a gravity fed system.

THen why did Fukushima explode? My understanding is the electricity was knocked out and the back-up generators quite so she overheated because the cooling system was down

clay2 baraka

NewsWorthy
We'll according to ENE news scientists believe the nuclear fuel has melted through containment and has reached groundwater. They came to this conclusion by radiation levels being altered with the ebb an flow of the tides.
I'm not anywhere near knowledgable on the subject but I was under the impression that if this happened it would explode or would be catastrophic to Japan in Various other ways.

You are confusing two different things.

There is a belief that fuel rods are now actively being mixed with sea water based on fluctuating water levels that correspond to tidal activity.

This is different than a "melt through." In this scenario, the fuel rods melt all of the way through the cement containment and begin to work deep into the ground, eventually settling into a subterranean pocket of water. The heat from the rod would cause the water to vaporize containing an irradiated pocket of steam that would explode forcefully from any fissure in the earth. This is known as a "hydrovolcanic explosion." The release of irradiated steam would be catastrophic for the surrounding area.

i'm not finished reading this whole thread so i may be repeating someone else.... there has been bouts of steam coming from the plant and TEPCO says they don't know what it's from (after ignoring it for months and months).

one thing for sure about Fukushima....


The longer this goes on as it is today, it becomes a much tougher row to hoe for pro nuclear power people, so to speak.

shaneslaughta
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Because there is no way to stop it. Its a blob of burning radioactive fuel.

You volunteering to hop in the hole and dig it out?

Not even the Japanese are willing, and they live on that island.

It was over the minute the wave hit the plant and took out the generators.

1. why not use remote controlled bulldozers to encase it in cement?
also spray it with liquid lead paint which stops neutrons.

2. simply encase the whole thing with graphite and cement.

3. or explode a small nuke underneath it to create a cavern into which it will fall and be encased with concrete.
seems to a lack of imagination..

4. the best method is to fill it with a 1000 tons of lead pellets which will will absorb radiation and also melt with the heat to encase it.

crazyewok

InverseLookingGlass

The typical uneducated knee jerk reaction. If a Nuclear power plant is in a area safe from Earthquaks and Tsunamis and has full safety systems then I dont see the danger. We should just stop people from building plants in danger zones or with substandard systems.

reply to post by crazyewok

 

Like Chernobyl?

with substandard systems

Again the typical uneducated Knee Jerk Response.

Chernobyl happened as it was built by a failing empire with substanded systems and terrible saftey protacols. It would be impossibe for the same thing to happen at Chernobyl to one of our own western power plants! To get a melt down you would have to be stupid like build a plant in a earthquake zone!


Fact it is if you build a plant tp western standards in SAFE regions theres no problem.

edit on 20-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

What if a 757 flew into a "safe" power plant at 500 mph?

soulwaxer

Whatever is happening at Fukushima, one thing for sure is, it's not good. ~$heopleNation

SheopleNation
Whatever is happening at Fukushima, one thing for sure is, it's not good. ~$heopleNation

You would think that 100% of people could agree with that statement...... they won't,,,,,, someone will be in shortly to tell you how harmless Fukushima is.

shaneslaughta

UxoriousMagnus

A wave.....that hit a meaningless little island out in the Pacific.....destroys the entire ocean and slow kills the entire planet....that's just great man, why don't you put her in charge then!!!

Who?

No one said its killing the entire planet.

There will be repercussions though.

Just add all the future accidents waiting to happen in all the aging plants around the world, or if the power is snuffed by a solar flair.

UxoriousMagnus

crazyewok

UxoriousMagnus


A wave.....that hit a meaningless little island out in the Pacific.....destroys the entire ocean and slow kills the entire planet....that's just great man, why don't you put her in charge then!!!

I would hardly call Japan "meaningless".

Infact thats rather offenisive and Im not even Japanese!

edit on 20-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

don't care if I offend anyone.....we are talking about foolishly building nuke plants and how it is destroying the planet....not whether you are offended by my use of the word "meaningless".....did you do your homework yet to see how old our plants are and how many are built on fault lines and coast lines?

We are often not told, the Wa leak would never have come to public attention if not for a whistleblower. In fact they would have just let it keep leaking.

We also have the waste to deal with like in Wa

ICHLAND, Wash. — An underground tank holding some of the worst radioactive waste at the nation's most contaminated nuclear site might be leaking into the soil.

The leak happening now

The Perry nuclear power plant is leaking tritium, a radioactive form of water with a half-life of more than 12 years.

www.cleveland.com...

The Carolina plant last year (nov.2013)just a few months ago.

A reactor at one of the nation’s largest nuclear power plants has been taken offline due to a radioactive leak within a containment building.

A Quarter of U.S. Nuclear Plants Leaking
www.cbsnews.com...


List of nuclear power accidents by country

Worldwide, many nuclear accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster in 1986. Two thirds of these mishaps occurred in the US.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

RickinVa

SheopleNation
Whatever is happening at Fukushima, one thing for sure is, it's not good. ~$heopleNation

You would think that 100% of people could agree with that statement...... they won't,,,,,, someone will be in shortly to tell you how harmless Fukushima is.

Yes harmless it will make us all warm and fuzzy.

Char-Lee

UxoriousMagnus

crazyewok

UxoriousMagnus


A wave.....that hit a meaningless little island out in the Pacific.....destroys the entire ocean and slow kills the entire planet....that's just great man, why don't you put her in charge then!!!

I would hardly call Japan "meaningless".

Infact thats rather offenisive and Im not even Japanese!

edit on 20-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

don't care if I offend anyone.....we are talking about foolishly building nuke plants and how it is destroying the planet....not whether you are offended by my use of the word "meaningless".....did you do your homework yet to see how old our plants are and how many are built on fault lines and coast lines?

We are often not told, the Wa leak would never have come to public attention if not for a whistleblower. In fact they would have just let it keep leaking.

We also have the waste to deal with like in Wa

ICHLAND, Wash. — An underground tank holding some of the worst radioactive waste at the nation's most contaminated nuclear site might be leaking into the soil.

The leak happening now

The Perry nuclear power plant is leaking tritium, a radioactive form of water with a half-life of more than 12 years.

www.cleveland.com...

The Carolina plant last year (nov.2013)just a few months ago.

A reactor at one of the nation’s largest nuclear power plants has been taken offline due to a radioactive leak within a containment building.

A Quarter of U.S. Nuclear Plants Leaking
www.cbsnews.com...


List of nuclear power accidents by country

Worldwide, many nuclear accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster in 1986. Two thirds of these mishaps occurred in the US.[1]

en.wikipedia.org...

exactly and I live within 200 miles of the Washington Reactor...

but then people always attack the whistleblowers and try to destroy their credibility

The Containment is breached, the stuff is out in the environment. The worst case scenario. Sorry, its not dramatic destruction like an airstrike or asteroid impact. There are no shock waves or Tsunamis of Nuclear death circling the planet. Just the slow creep of unstable atoms into your bones and connective tissues.

The quiet storm.

All that containment was designed to keep the stuff inside it. The thermos within thermos behind thick walls of redundancy are there for a purpose. To keep what has happened from happening.

Ironic that.

Its like they knew how dangerous the portent if the stuff got out and so built as massive a structure they could to keep it in, knowing full well that no matter how nested their efforts at preventing release the beast would have pierced all of their barriers anyway once an uncontrolled chain reaction began.

But that would never happen. Like putting off what to do with all the waste generated by the nuclear fuel cycle they sort of said, welp, thats good enough… for now.

Now we eat and breathe the detritus of our wonderful technology.

reply to post by intrptr


Any Sources for your Claim that the Containment is breached?

Do you saw that the Swiss People corrected their Graphic and gave a Statement?

UxoriousMagnus

NewsWorthy

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by NewsWorthy

 

why isn't the entire planet working to get this under control!!?

also.....why aren't we actively decom-ing all nuke sites on the planet? I know GE would lose a fortune but do we care about that?

The new clean burn coal plants are amazingly clean and efficient and yet the Obama admin is shutting them down....no, this isn't about Obama.....I'm sure any president would do the same because they are being told to.

I just don't understand why we (the people of earth) and the environment has to pay for corporate greed. Everyone is wrapped up in this whole global warming or....sorry....global climate change hoax when the real issues to the environment and human health is the aging nuke plant fleet.

Our elected officials and government agencies really have betrayed our trust as far as the nuke plants go.....

I have become death....

Love the Oppenheimer reference....
As far as why we let it happen as people of the same planet..... I'd have to say it's my belief the majority of the world doesn't even know the dangers since nobody will cover it on the news.

I agree....because GE owns large portions of most of the news outlets....you make a good point there

Please show me what news outlets GE owns as of 2014? I can almost guarantee you the answer will shock you, it's ZERO..

Comcast Corp bought ALL of NBC Universal, all of it means just that, ALL OF IT, GE no longer has an interest..
Sorry had to burst that bubble, it's a bit of lie that's been going around because of GE having HAD owned NBC in the past..

F4Driver
reply to post by NewsWorthy

 

Confirming that yes unit 1,2 & 3 all have breached the bottom of their containment and have entered the underground water flow which is carrying the radiation into the Pacific ocean.
Current flow has brought debris and radiation to Alaska, Washington, Oregon and California shores and have been detected as radiation reading have rose substantially.
It is turning into OUR mess now.

Can you provide a source for that? I have family that lives on the coast and they bought a gieger counter about a year ago. They also fish for tuna, salmon, sea bass and crab. Truth is that no "debris has come to the coast, nor have radiation levels risen at all. The tuna still test the same as they did 5 years ago, they have less radiation than a banana.

Yes.. Fukushima is a shame. It never should have happened... Chernobyl never should have happened.... all mishaps at nuclear power plants everywhere "never should have happened" but they did. From everything I have read and researched Fukushima is not going to affect the west coast at all, it hasn't yet and unless #4 goes then is most likely never will. Hell it hasnt even affected the area outside of the protected area...yet... it could, but it hasn't, only time will tell how Japan will fare in this.

No one is ever going to be happy with how we produce energy. They will say things like "coal fueled power power plants contribute to global warming", "oil and gas contribute to global warming" "nuclear power is unsafe and is going to kill everyone", "water powered turbines are dangerous to fish and can cause stagnation and dead areas in rivers", "wind powered energy mills kill birds". Its always the same there is a problem with every type of energy. Solar is bad also because of the massive amounts of petroleum and energy it takes to make the cells and the storage facilities.

So if you are unhappy with how energy is created the solution is easy.. shut up... quit bitching and stop using it. We are all responsible for the problems our power plants have as we are the ones who want to use the energy.....no demand=no supply easy solution to all the pansies and bleeding hearts who think that their ideas and opinions mean anything in the grand scheme of things.

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by NewsWorthy

 

The melted fuel pile is unaccounted for. This is a very different situation than Chernobyl. They were able to sequester and entomb the fuel pile. The Fukushima disaster is still completely out of control and has no precedent. The presumption is that it would reach the water table and beyond. Looks like the evidence is indicating that has happened. The significant amount of steam coming out of that hole is carrying nucleotides; iodine, strontium and Cesium. The danger to Japan is most prominent but the prevailing wind carries it away from the island. Out of sight out of mind? It's infuriating.

CS137 readily dissolves in water. The idea most people have is some particle getting propagated. Ions in solution can slowly travel up hill in the water table. Ion's will travel much farther, faster and more completely in solution. My guess is the Japan's media has been muzzled in an attempt to stem the fear and outrage. If things were improving, why not opt for more transparency? Test the ground water 1km up hill from the meltdown and see what happens.

The Cs137 with a half-life of about 30 years is currently concentrating at the top of the food chain. Think tuna is the top of the food chain? Sorry to inform, but if you are reading this, you are the top of the food chain. There is no safe amount of radiation for the human reproductive cycle. Humans are extraordinarily poor at reproduction so it's a real threat.

God of your choice (here).........help us all I say.
Best post on this thread so far in my opinion only.

Regards, Iwinder

shaneslaughta
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Because there is no way to stop it. Its a blob of burning radioactive fuel.

You volunteering to hop in the hole and dig it out?

Not even the Japanese are willing, and they live on that island.

It was over the minute the wave hit the plant and took out the generators.

Japan had no problem sending people to their death if it meant killing Americans... I don't understand why they don't take their entire population of hardened criminals in prison, suit them up and tell them if they survive they will be given hookers and drugs until they die and if they do die battling the plant, then their families will receive $15k and the shame of their past will be wiped.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


We have Seniors who are willed to do this!
Japanese seniors volunteer for Fukushima 'suicide corps'

Tokyo (CNN) -- Up a narrow flight of stairs in a modest, non-descript office building, three retirees sit in a cramped room, hunched over their computers and mobile phones. They look like the planning committee for a neighborhood senior breakfast, not the leaders of a 250-member team attempting to defuse one of the worst nuclear meltdowns in history.

Cnn

U C?

This is the big Difference between our Nations,
the Japanese are still willed to sacrifice their Life
while the Americans cant even recruit Death Row Inmates!

reply to post by Agit8dChop


LOL... I do realize that back in the days of WWII the warriors still lived by the Samurai code and needed to save face. I seriously doubt that in this day and age you would find even 1% of people in the ol' sushi cooler who would have any idea what that meant.

I do like your idea... or we could just ship all of our death row inmates from the U.S. to help the cleanup process... them and a bunch of our rappers.