Huffington Post says 47% Of All Jobs Will Be Automated By 2034

reply to post by Sagitaris


I think that's a little too simplified, but the basic principal should stand.

Corporations should benefit the people, same with technological advances.

They shouldn't be used as leverage to oppress, and outright kill people.

That being said, my "shouldn't" holds no weight as one individual amongst 7billion+.

We need to come together to decide this, before a decision is made on our behalf.

posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 06:07 PM link edit quote reply I am attending CSUF obtaining my BA in economics and I have been saying this for years now.

I think I may have a solution though

Politicians will need to ( I know scary reliance there) pass a society integration bill. This bill will tax companies according to the level of automation within the business!!!! think about it!

If a company is fully automated then a 100% tax on the company would be given this would help the government pay for food stamps and welfare in general.

And if the company had 0 automation then it wouldnt get taxed AT ALL allowing the company to pay for the workers and stay competitive.

THERE YOU GO EARTH I JUST FIXED YOUR AUTOMATION PROBLEM

which part of this is over simplified I dont see where it could go wrong. please be specific I think this has alot of potential.

reply to post by Sagitaris


A one dimensional tax system based on automation just wouldn't work, period.

Think of all the potential scenarios.

I mean, you're now incentivizing people to start up small companies that aren't automated. Sounds great!

Except, you may get too many of them.

On the other end, you have large corporations that are disincentivized from increasing productivity because of having more taxes, so must have more human beings.

The former promotes crappy companies to sprout up, the latter promotes inefficiency of resource allocation relative to the current state of tech.

It's a negative approach.

The positive approach, is to realize abundance.

That means changing the social contract, and cultural mores related to it. Instead of looking down on people who aren't needed within the workforce, allow them to be and pursue their own interests and passions.

There are over 200 million people who aren't currently employed (and many more who aren't even registered in the workforce), yet the world is keeping on due to technological progression.

Why work, to keep buying things we don't need, to keep exploiting the land, to keep feeding false theories related to the "economy", that doesn't match up with reality?

Why not chill out, enjoy what's around, and allow our greatest minds to continue on, and the robits to manage the remedial tasks?

Makes sense to me.

If people need to work, just cause, then might as well wipe them out. They're as good as dead already.

reply to post by 727Sky


This will create massive havoc. Today 60 percent of the population that can work has a job, this would mean it would be down to 30 percent in 20 years. Capitalism just won't work if that is the case.

The best solution for government is to kill off a large portion of the population, probably by going to war. I think china is already planning for war. One thing is for sure the next decade or two are likely to be very eventful.

webedoomed
reply to post by Sagitaris

A one dimensional tax system based on automation just wouldn't work, period.

Think of all the potential scenarios.

I mean, you're now incentivizing people to start up small companies that aren't automated. Sounds great!

Except, you may get too many of them.

I Dont see how too many small businesses providing competition using automation as a tool to balance costs and profits would be a bad thing

On the other end, you have large corporations that are disincentivized from increasing productivity because of having more taxes, so must have more human beings.

The former promotes crappy companies to sprout up, the latter promotes inefficiency of resource allocation relative to the current state of tech.

This right here nails it! we have become so successful through automation that we dont need human beings but end result is human beings dont work which results in very low consumption from citizens, because they have no money.

That means changing the social contract, and cultural mores related to it. Instead of looking down on people who aren't needed within the workforce, allow them to be and pursue their own interests and passions.

thats the burst in small businesses you were saying would happen.

There are over 200 million people who aren't currently employed (and many more who aren't even registered in the workforce), yet the world is keeping on due to technological progression.

This is the issue

Why work, to keep buying things we don't need, to keep exploiting the land, to keep feeding false theories related to the "economy", that doesn't match up with reality?

Why not chill out, enjoy what's around, and allow our greatest minds to continue on, and the robits to manage the remedial tasks?

have you ever seen the movie Wall-E?

It seems tptb are taking the Henry Ford production line to its ultimate conclusion.Decades ago automation was a dream of the future to eliminate back breaking labor.Machines take orders very well,won't cost their"employers"high Dr.,hospital,dental etc.It was a good dream while it lasted...

reply to post by 727Sky


This is one of the many steps along the way to a high tech utopia

-Automate all jobs possible (jobs requiring a thinking human still needed)
-Dissolve all nations into one New World Order
-Automate the distribution of natural resources to ensure abundant supplies in every region

-Abolish the concept of money*
-Provide free food, housing, education, healthcare to everyone
-Extra luxuries like larger homes, entertainment multimedia systems etc. provided to workers, quality of the goods = quality of the work
-Bonus incentives can be created for jobs that are in high demand

*Money will become obsolete when we can ensure that every region is provided for according to its needs, which can be achieved if every region is made capable of optimal resource output. Incentive for hard work can be replaced by offering increased luxuries for those who are willing to take on complex jobs, such as robotics engineers, scientists, resource managers and doctors, or social support jobs such as law enforcement, nursing, teaching etc.

The economy will no longer be dependent on pyramid schemes of human workers, but instead specialized groups of robotics engineers, programmers and resource managers. Technological progress will no longer be restrained by the demands of the economy. The economy will no longer require infinite growth, instead focusing on optimization.

Poverty can be eliminated with free food, housing, education and healthcare. This will create an equal opportunity for prosperity in all walks of life. One's quality of life is entirely up to the ambition of the individual.

Population control will be necessary to ensure that the population does not outgrow the capacity of the economy, most likely in the form of parent licensing.

Laws will focus on protecting human rights, rather than protecting economic interests. Incarceration will focus on rehabilitation and segregating dangerous individuals rather than punishment for profit.

If we, the global community, can manage our resources intelligently and effectively with the goal of enhancing the quality of life for everyone, this goal is certainly obtainable. We have the technology, now we just need to formulate a plan and follow through with it.

reply to post by Glass


looks good on paper but now that everything is provided to the people how do you solve population control issue?

OK who will be able to buy anything if you are one of the 47% that are replaced;

It will be just like it is now one half working to pay for the other half.

With no money to pay for the half that isn't working because:

More fiat money, and corporate products will be deemed 'human rights' just like they are now.

Less money will be taking in from taxation,income and otherwise.

Government prepared ?

Oh that was rich!

They can't even pay their bills now, let alone the peoples.

Which brings us to the real point:

Government was not created to pay our bills.

reply to post by 727Sky


When I was in school in the 1950's and 60's we were told no one would have to work in the future - that everything would be done by robots - and we would spend our time creating, making art, learning and helping others.

Guess part of the pitch was true.

redhorse


It seems as if you are saying people will go crazy with out their jobs as a sense of identity. I am saying that on a fundamental level (and with some justification) they fear for their very lives. Those with authority and power will have no reason to encourage a society that values life if there are too many people to support that are not contributing to that society in a way that is meaningful for the elite.

We already see that happening now.
The elites are conditioning the people now.
A lot of people that depended on the jobs that a growing housing market provided lost their jobs after the 2008 crash.
Instead of looking at the obvious loss from 2008, the elites are conditioning people that these people all of sudden decided to become lazy and go on welfare and food stamps and to convince the populace that if you don't work, you don't eat.


Hence, the whole purpose for the police state, increased security and spying on citizens.
They have everything in place.

Nyiah
Frankly, I don't think this factory/workforce automation is going to be the death knell of humanity just yet. What I think is going to happen is this: Farmers. Artisans.

Honestly, I think the future jobs markets are going to be dominated by renewed agricultural interest, and a stronger dedication to science all around (medicine, astronomy, physics, biology, you name it) W

Except that the elite don't want you going off to live on the land. Agenda21 is about population and resource control.
They don't have a need for people to go back to farming on their own when factory farms do it all.
They'll make land as expensive as heck where you would not be able to afford it anyway.
Government + Wall Street is already doing that after the last crash.

redhorse
reply to post by Nyiah

 

I see many, many signs that those in power are learning, teaching and encouraging misanthropy and a general contempt for the human race. I think that this is a reactionary response to that sense that we are hitting a tipping point in the capacity of the human race to support itself with the resources available. A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point. It is easier to kill off others than to find a thoughtful, dynamic solution that will sustain everyone. We have the capacity for the latter and a tendency for the first. I fear the path of least resistance may win out here.

I agree with your point. Think of prince Phillip in England saying that he when he died he wanted to come back as a virus
and wipe out the useless eaters.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by beezzer

 

More robots.

I was told when recently in college to make sure that I select a job that a computer cannot do. My 11 year old was told just this year, after the teacher asked them all what they wanted to be when they grew up, that none of those jobs would exist by the time they reached the age to work them because of automation. We're going to be confronting a serious job black hole as automation becomes more and more prevalent and cheaper than its human counterparts. As an accountant, I'd say the blame rests resoundingly on how we do cost accounting where accountants essentially have to estimate the maximum level of efficiency in productivity and monetarily associate those costs with a specific product. We mere humans tend to fail those numbers because we can't maintain it but those robots sure can. My capstone paper was actually on this very subject and I got an A+ for being brutally freaking honest. Go figure.

I'll be glad to tell you that this next generation coming up will make sure that doesn't happen. Never underestimate a human being. I see it on a daily basis through my children (girls 25.26 and son 30). They ( that age group ) question everything and they aren't all ignorant of this political mess, corruptions, political/royal murders (DIANA ), heroine to finance wall street and fill deep pockets.

Ever noticed?? globally, there's more revolutions lately and mostly it's for people's rights to exist. People are going to suffer before it ever gets better on this planet but the only thing you can do for humanity is to fight this corrupted system ;not one at a time but by billions
cheers!!

Jobs being eliminated isn't really a problem, all you have to do is shorten the work week.

This problem has been building for awhile,

reply to post by WhiteAlice


You are so right.

As technology matures, it becomes more complex and beyond the ability of humans. So machines build machines.

Somebody still is designing and building stuff but that is a small number of people.

So most people need to survive in service industries. The problem with services industries is that job quality is low and job-satisfaction non-existent (how does it feel when a robot is smarter than you?).

I can bet that unemployed will increase and more people will die of disease or commit suicide as they simple dont fit.

The technology can change your life in unexpected ways and end careers dramatically. There is no surety you will hold your job even if you get one. Living in non-stop panic is not how humans are designed.

The main issue here is that most simply do not care.
We could stand united, and we could make things work for us instead of against us, but so far our systems have turned us into mindless all consuming machines, the balance as has been said, has been broken, we lost our way.

There is nothing wrong in being optimistic, but the fact is, that those job related projections are correct, machines will replace us, and the ones without privilege, 80% of the population will probably be either killed off, or worse, technological advancement should be tied to our emotional humane progress, but as long as our very means of sustainability rely on war, poverty, death and disease, then the future sure looks grim.

No one wants to compromise, if it means giving away some of our comforts, companies seek the bottom line, and if that means replacing all its workforce with machines then so be it, machines do not have unions, if they get "sick" they are replaced without being sued by them, they do not give birth or want overtime bonuses.

But as has been mentioned before, capitalism works by creating needs, products and services that the workforce consumes, if there isnt any demand then the system implodes.

Thing is the momentum is already here, more means less, the balance is broken on a global scale, the future seems bright for machines, dark for humans...

I recommend reading this wonderful book:

The penultimate truth bu Phillip K. Dick
info

In the book most of humanity lives underground building giant robots to fight wars in a polluted radioactive surface, for fighting unending wars for their destroyed nations, when in fact the secret is that the surface while irradiated isnt all destroyed, and the elite live in huge states on the surface, the robots people build underground are put in some sort of coliseums, and make them fight to the death for the entertainment of the elite...

cheers!

reply to post by GargIndia


One of the things that I keep note of are suicide rates. Pretty grim subject, I know, but suicide rates are already increasing, particularly for baby boomers, and it has been linked with unemployment, socioeconomic stresses, and more. Some seem to think that TPTB are going to wipe out most of the planet to reduce the population but I disagree. Odds are as automation increases and employment/standards of living decrease due to the heavy influx of competition into service jobs (quite right about those--they pay lower and have low job satisfaction), many may succumb to despair and take themselves out of the scenario entirely or be felled by malnutrition and/or disease. That's pretty much the writing on the wall and probably the motivation of the passage of the ACA because one thing that disease tends to be is indiscriminate.

I'd like to hope that people will come together and demand that basic human rights will be provided for. However, when I look out at the world, I see it mostly filled with people more concerned about whether they have the latest iphone than now living on the streets. I see a lot of resentment about where THEIR tax dollars are being spent and who is living off of them, though predominantly from Gen X and Baby Boomers. I don't think I've seen a millenial express that sort of anger but I imagine there is a few. My own millenial says that part of why there is this difference in viewpoint is that Gen X and Boomers remember when our country was great and the world that millenials have grown up in? They were told it was great but saw otherwise--hence the questioning. The problem is, that same group that is less bought into the nation's propaganda is also the same group that has the largest unemployment rate. Some of these issues were actually brought up in Occupy, which was largely millenial in nature, and what happened to it? Crushed like a bug.

I had a professor who was an analyst for a very long time. Every day, he'd start the class with the depressing reality of what is and his projections about what is going to come to pass. Ironically enough, Occupy was his hope of things changing. I'd tease him of being like one of those crazy guys that stand on the street corner wearing a sign, "Abandon Ye All Hope" and more. The thing is, I think he was right as it's all SNAFU.

beezzer
reply to post by 727Sky

 

I guess the job to have is someone who fixes the robots!

*coin!*

The robots are highly reliable and self-repairing. These days, the robots are elevators, telephone exchanges, mobile phones, laser printers, email, and internet servers and routers, microwave cookers, washing machines, refrigerators, supermarkets with just-in-time warehouse delivery systems and automated looms. Telephone exchanges always contain more circuit boards that their are customers. If one circuit board ever fails for whatever reason, that person's account is simply moved onto another board in a micro-second.

You used to need a bell-boy to operate elevators. Automated telephone exchanges replaced the need for operator girls. Mobile phones and pagers replaced the need for telegram boys/girls. Laser printers and WYSIWYG editors replaced whole departments of printworkers (and they didn't go down without a fight either - see the Wapping Dispute). Work processors eliminated the need for a secretary, but they became admins and PA's instead. Email and web servers technology flattened management structures. In the past there was 1:3 ratio, now it's a 1:10 ratio between managers and engineers, since everyone can talk to each other directly. In the past, sending customers updated manuals and software required someone at one end to put the package together, box it up, arrange for the courier to pick it up, transport and deliver it. Now that's done with a simple visit to a website via the internet.

Home washing machines replaced the need for laundrettes and cleaning staff. Refrigerators and supermarkets with just-in-time warehouse delivery systems replaced the need for someone to stay at home and do the daily shopping from all the local shops; the butcher, fishmonger, greengrocer, post-office, delicatessen and ironmonger. In the past, all of these shops would employ a couple of shop staff and at least one delivery person. Each shop would keep one family in a middle class lifestyle. Now it's minimum wage jobs in a supermarket.

With automated looms, it only needs one technician to supervise fifteen machines producing industrial strength twenty food wide multi-colored patterned carpet patterns. The patterns are designed by an artist upstairs using Photoshop. 200 years ago, it would have taken four artisans to operate one loom, and even then they'd never get the exact same pattern done twice.

reply to post by 727Sky


Finally! What a great time to be an artist.
It's been like...500+ years.