Pythagoras and the math of everything

Bedlam

Utnapisjtim

Apparently, if we are to believe the Upanishads and other books like the Rig Veda and the Bhagavadgita, the entire universe was created by that sound.

How did the "aum sound" propagate through a vacuum? Sound isn't the sort of thing that can pervade a universe, although it sounds really poetic.

Unfortunately we don't know much around the circumstances of the primordial state of the universe, but it was anything but vacuum. It was immensely dense until it ruptured in a loud noise and expanded into the universe we experience. Empty space exists due to kinetic forces sending the shrapnel from Big Bang in every direction. In a sense we are still in a stage of this primordial explosion. At least that's how I understand it.

Utnapisjtim

Unfortunately we don't know much around the circumstances of the primordial state of the universe, but it was anything but vacuum. It was immensely dense until it ruptured in a loud noise and expanded into the universe we experience.

Given that the inflationary period of the universe only lasted for about 10E-36 seconds, and at the end you've got a really good vacuum, that's not much in the way of sound.

You realize it wasn't an explosion in the common sense of the term, right? There really wasn't a boom. Definitely not an "aum", which would take several seconds to get out of your mouth, if you had one during the inflationary phase.

reply to post by Bedlam


You, we don't know that. We don't know what happened. Period. The Upanishads speak of a primordial sound and creative vibrations. Groovy! You speak of vacuum and that there wasn't even a Bang in Big Bang. It's like the Roadrunner without Wile E. Coyote. Boring!

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Come now. You can't invoke the ylem and not accept the bang part.

reply to post by Bedlam


A humongous and utterly devastating BOOM (only the B is silent)that eventually created the vacuume of space. No matter if it only lasted a fraction of a second to you, at that point it was equal to eternity, big ol' time being established, but being anything but stable. A second of Big Bang would last an eternity and be over in no time. Time is like a wind, it's not a clock. Talk about warping space-time.... With sound... Space fluid.....

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by Bedlam

 

A humongous and utterly devastating BOOM (only the B is silent)that eventually created the vacuume of space. No matter if it only lasted a fraction of a second to you, at that point it was equal to eternity...

No, time was running by then, that's what let the expansion part occur. Heck, you were forming stable elements billionths of a second after. And if there was no time, you can't have sound, either. Takes time to have sound.

Bedlam

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by Bedlam

 

A humongous and utterly devastating BOOM (only the B is silent)that eventually created the vacuume of space. No matter if it only lasted a fraction of a second to you, at that point it was equal to eternity...

No, time was running by then, that's what let the expansion part occur. Heck, you were forming stable elements billionths of a second after. And if there was no time, you can't have sound, either. Takes time to have sound.

That doesn't change the fact that space as we have come to know it didn't yet exist. For quite some time the universe was a fast-growing ball of "plasma" (for lack of better words) that we don't know the properties of. We are left to theorize and speculate. The current paradigm probably has much truth to it, but seeing how much has happened in research into this, we are certainly on the right track. However to say the Big Bang was mute.... How can you know that? Say you were Superman: In empty space you wouldnot hear the sound of a hydrgen tank exploding if you stood beside it, but hold your ear into the tank when it explodes or stick your head into the explosion, you would certainly hear quite a bit.

Sound the way I see it, is matter in motion, not the effect this has on our eardrums and how we experience it. Time is a highly subjective affair, experienced differently from human to human, to mice, to elephants and then we're just talking mammals. Then you have hearing which is also very subjective. Below is a recording of crickets where time has been extended to scale a cricket's lifespan to that of a human one. It's beautiful. Can listen to it for hours. Hypnotic.

soundcloud.com...

Have been fiddling quite a bit on a project with a friend lately, so there hasn't been much time for discussions here on ATS.

That said, I did a sweep through the net to find some background on Pythagoras and his society, and came upon the following page that provides a great-but-small biography and a nice set of books and web-resources on the subject:

==> www.mathopenref.com...

Below are a few "rules" his mystical community in Crotona, a Greek colony in southern Italy:

• All things are numbers. Mathematics is the basis for everything, and geometry is the highest form of mathematical studies. The physical world can understood through mathematics.
  
• The soul resides in the brain, and is immortal. It moves from one being to another, sometimes from a human into an animal, through a series of reincarnations called transmigration until it becomes pure. Pythagoras believed that both mathematics and music could purify.
  
• Numbers have personalities, characteristics, strengths and weaknesses.
  
• The world depends upon the interaction of opposites, such as male and female, lightness and darkness, warm and cold, dry and moist, light and heavy, fast and slow.
  
• Certain symbols have a mystical significance.
  
• All members of the society should observe strict loyalty and secrecy.
  

Seems to be in accord with the later Hermetic societies and excelled in all branches of the Quardrivium-- the four cardinal sciences of Antiquity: Geometry, Astronomy, Arithmetics and Music. He is counted as the first real mathmatician. Make sure to check out the links at the bottom of the page.

Fast forward to 1:11 and notice the Tetractys in the logo of the G-7 summit in Den Haag (The Hague) on nuclear security. Why would they use the Tetrad to identify nuclear safety?

reply to post by Utnapisjtim

re shumann
i was going to suggest the 2 times table Utn
you beat me to it
not necessarily a flop

ill try tone creation on those frequencies and give it an ear
i have tried brainwave entrainment frequencies at the base freq and it is quite restfull when applied to white noise

reply to post by Danbones


Thing is that the wavelength of the Schumann frequency equals roughly the circumference of the Earth (c. 40,000 km), moving that distance roughly 7.83 times a second brings us up to speed with light as it moves through our atmosphere, roughly 300,000 km/s (not calibrating for "waveheight"), showing that we are talking about electromagnetic radiation and not sound, so it's rather useless looking for similarities, but I played a little with the figures and it turns out the circumference of the earth is roughly the speed of sound to the third power. If speed of sound is v and the circumference of the Earth is c:

c ≈ v^3

Taking the Schumann frequency to the third power gives roughly 480Hz:

the organs played by Johann Sebastian Bach in Hamburg, Leipzig and Weimar were pitched at A = 480 Hz

Wiki source

Which makes me kindof thinking "so there is a link afterall....."

I have this theory though I have never worked on it in detail that the original cubit was calculated using the resonant frequency of the Earth ie some harmonic of its wavelength. The reason being would be using that measurement in building would result in structures that resonate with the Earths frequency.

once this measurement is discovered people will understand that stone circles were built to hum to the frequency of the Earth!

LUXUS
I have this theory though I have never worked on it in detail that the original cubit was calculated using the resonant frequency of the Earth ie some harmonic of its wavelength. The reason being would be using that measurement in building would result in structures that resonate with the Earths frequency.

once this measurement is discovered people will understand that stone circles were built to hum to the frequency of the Earth!

edit on 27-3-2014 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

Are you serious? Like I said, the wavelength of the Schumann resonance equals the circumference of the Earth, and the cubit is half a meter. They did know the circumference of the Earth way back, it's a rather simple thing to calculate if you have a tower and know some trigonometry. There is no hum, the Schumann resonance is electromagnetic radiation. Like radio, gamma radiation and visible light. It belongs to the Ether, the fifth element if you like.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Yes I am serious! I'm not completely sure that the shuman resonance frequency is the resonant frequency of the Earth anyway, Tesla s measurements do not agree and in ancient vedic music theory the fundamental pitch on which all their music is based is on the number of hours it takes the Earth to go around the Sun (Sadja). The resonant frequency of the Earth should be based on its radius as far as I understand it, you would need to know the exact radius of the Earth then calculate the time it would take for an electromagnetic wave to travel from surface to core and back to surface, that would be one cycle.

As you probably know Pythagoras talked about the music of the spheres so we know that they believed each planet had a tone.

LUXUS
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

Yes I am serious! I'm not completely sure that the shuman resonance frequency is the resonant frequency of the Earth anyway, Tesla s measurements do not agree and in ancient vedic music theory the fundamental pitch on which all their music is based is on the number of hours it takes the Earth to go around the Sun. The resonant frequency of the Earth should be based on its radius as far as I understand it, you would need to know the exact radius of the Earth then calculate the time it would take for an electromagnetic wave to travel from surface to core and back to surface, that would be one cycle.

As you probably know Pythagoras talked about the music of the spheres so we know that they believed each planet had a tone.

edit on 28-3-2014 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

Actually, what he said was something along the lines of "There is geometry in the humming of strings. There is music in the spacing of the spheres". As above, so below in other words. Everything is number. Check out wheelof.com... it's epic, but a simuation. As intriguing as the idea may (lit.) sound, what this guy simply did was to turn a set of data into midi-like notes based on different criteria. Just like you could assign a sound to each word of a book. The book itself has no music in it, but the letters and words anything related to the book can be turned into quantifiable numbers and then this can be visuali... audialised.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


The Schumann resonance is actually the resonant frequency of the cavity formed between the Earths surface and the Ionosphere, if maynot and is probably not the resonant frequency of the Earth itself.

My understanding is that Pythagoras could hear (in meditation) the music of the spheres.

LUXUS
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

The Schumann resonance is actually the resonant frequency of the cavity formed between the Earths surface and the Ionosphere, if maynot and is probably not the resonant frequency of the Earth itself.

My understanding is that Pythagoras could hear (in meditation) the music of the spheres.

Indeed. Schumann resonance is a sinus-style electromagnetic readiation wave with height being that of ground to the ionosphere and length that of Earth's circumference. As anything can be turned into number, number also can be turned into music. If you scaled down the Earth to let's say the size of a bowling ball, and you hit it with something, there woud be sound, but music? Hardly. Then again, you can make music out of anything, it's all about scaling and finding the right bodies with corresponding size/material. BRB have to kill a fly that is driving me mad here....

originally posted by: Bedlam


How did the "aum sound" propagate through a vacuum? Sound isn't the sort of thing that can pervade a universe, although it sounds really poetic.

How can you hear people singing and water running in dreams?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

In Hebrew, the letters of the alefbet are also numbers, and given their values, consider the following:



The pic above shows how the Name of God sums up to 72 when writing it according to the Tetractys, reflecting the 72 powers of God and the 72 letters of his Name. Just a tidbit.

I heard Pythagoras studied for years under an exclusive "school" of Egypt that influenced him but I havent really read into it yet to see how true it is or not.