Weatherman on TV claiming Military drops Chemtrail-like particles in the air.

bitsforbytes
Has the effects of suspended artificially created clouds over large distances been studied yet

The effect of the lack of them was studied during the aviation shutdown post 9/11 - and it amounted to nothing much - there was an increase in the difference between the coldest and hottest parts of the day (night vs daytime) - what is known as the diurnal range. But that was only a 3 day period, and there is debate over whether it was the lack of contrails that caused the increased range or not.

Otherwise the effects of increased cirrus cloud are mostly modeled AFAIK - they apparently have a net cooling effect.

there are many papers on the topic - search for "cirrus radiative forcing"

Aloysius the Gaul

smurfy

conspiracytheoristIAM
reply to post by St0rD

 

Hard to imagine that chaff somehow sounds like chem-trail. I listened twice to 42 second clip, only chaff was mentioned by the weatherman !

Nope, he also said "unusual" so either Chaff exercises are unusual or they are not, or did he mean the size of the exercise was unusual. It is an old video, but that's not the point. If the chaff was the usual Aluminium, was there a possibiity of harm to people below and the answer is a simple yes.

In what way can chaff hurt people? It is too small to do any kinetic damage by falling on them, and too large to be ingested and pass into the blood stream.

The only thing to acknowledge is the size of particles and the spread. The smaller the particle, the more it can enter the respiritory organs where it should not be, and has no place.

We know how big chaff is - the wiki page has a picture of an opened bundle (warning - it's a 20mb pdf download)

The GAO did an audit of het potential effects of chaff::

While DOD components report that chaff is an effective means of defense for aircraft, ships, and related weapon systems, DOD and
other agencies have identified some unintended and potential side effects of chaff. Chaff can affect safety by interfering with air
traffic control radar. Chaff can also affect weather radar observations and the operation of friendly radar systems, especially
when vehicles stir up chaff that has settled on the ground. It has been reported that chaff has also caused power outages and damaged
electrical equipment. Potential effects cited by Defense and other organizations include those on health and the environment. For
example, the Air Force reported that chaff has a potential but remote chance of collecting in reservoirs and causing chemical changes that
may affect water and the species that use it.

So apart from eth potential for aluminium to dissolve into water (which is NIL! At the time of the report the US still had lead based chaff in stock, which would be of serious concern) there is no threat to anyone or anything except radar and electronics - note that the US tried to KO Iraqi and Serbian power grids using something considerably more sophisticated than chaff - because chaff isn't very good at doing that either!

edit on 8-1-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: add links & text

edit on 8-1-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

I always find it disturbing to hear people claiming we have nothing to worry about with questionnable subject like this.

Why are you so sure that putting chemicals in the sky that has nothing to do there in the first place, can do no harm to the environment? What about birds?
Tell me please.

It's not like we humans have always been right in the past, huh?

Seriously, we will need to stop listening to these so-callled experts one day and start thinking by ourselves.
Nature is perfect and it's been at least 100 years mankind is doing everything he is able to destroy the ultimate balanced environment earth provides to us.
And he is doing a pretty good damn job.

St0rD

I always find it disturbing to hear people claiming we have nothing to worry about with questionnable subject like this.

The point is that it is NOT questionable - every question is easily answered

Why are you so sure that putting chemicals in the sky that has nothing to do there in the first place, can do no harm to the environment? What about birds?
Tell me please.

What about them? These are not bait or simulated prey they are going to try to eat!

It's not like we humans have always been right in the past, huh?

Seriously, we will need to stop listening to these so-callled experts one day and start thinking by ourselves.
Nature is perfect and it's been at least 100 years mankind is doing everything he is able to destroy the ultimate balanced environment earth provides to us.
And he is doing a pretty good damn job.

Well I'm thinking for myself, and I'm thinking that relatively large fibres of aluminised plastic, that are apparently designed to degrade these days, are no more a health hazard to birds or anything else than holding an aluminium can is.

reply to post by snarky412


There would be no reason for them to cringe. If you look into Chaff you will see for yourself that it is not a chemical spray of any kind, unless one is clinging to the anal definition that all matter is chemical, which renders the term useless as a definition anyway, lol.

Chaff is as much a part of Air Force equipment as planes and pilots, I first read about it in a factual feature in Battle Picture Weekly, a boys comic I used to read when I was 10, which demonstrates just how un-secret it is.

bitsforbytes
Breathing in chaff is not good because breathing in aluminum is just not good no science needed, breathing in chemicals that are put in the sky by man is not good.

Please take a look at pictures of chaff, as linked earlier in the thread, then come back and explain how one is supposed to breathe it in?

Let us disregard the matter of WHAT these chemtrails are made of and let's focus on the fact that they stay there. TRAILS made by airplanes DO stay suspended in the sky for 10 minutes to several hours and create a web of artificial icy crystal filled clouds that block sunlight when sunlight should be passing through. Some argue that this is too small to make a difference, however do we really know when too small reaches the point of being too big? Have we reached it yet?

No, let's not, because whether it is water or some artificially added deliberately sprayed substance is completely central,to all chemtrail claims. Once people acknowledge what it really is, THEN there can be a serious discussion about potential negative effects, which needs to be seriously discussed instead of this silly chemtrail crap.

To the true truthseekers; ATS isn't what it used to be and this thread goes to show it, thanks to the shills and disnfo agents eagerly flocking into an entry level subject such as chemtrails.


Its just aluminum an d plastics folks! Great for fauna and flora alike!


Denying ignorance hahaha, showcasing it wthout shame rather.


Don evn for a SECOND think these are all genuine people exressing their acual opinion, they're here to make you drop the subject after realising we already KNOW about chaf, which they present as harmless, what a joke...

keep digging, they HATE IT when you dont just swallow their garbage

snarky412
reply to post by St0rD

 

I bet his producers cringed when he stated that.....plus him saying that he was in the Marine Corp and he knows for a fact that's what they do

Interesting

That's not to say I believe in chemtrails but remarks like these leaves the door wide open for any mis-interpretation

Why? The military does chaff drops as training exercises all the time. It's not a mystery. It's also not a chemtrail, nor cloud seeding.

The stuff looks like fiberglass. It typically comes on a big reel, you've got a chaff-chopper that sits in the side of the plane and spews the stuff out in correct lengths for the drop. And then, as intended, the chaff shows up on radar. That's what it's for.

The older stuff actually IS fiberglass. Newer "green" chaff is cellulose. And there's a disappearing chaff that was recently tested in Huntsville that produces radar returns for a limited time then sheds its coating and degrades. That's to prevent it from forming distinctive chaff tails on the radar.

St0rD
Well, I understand this isn't the common chemtrails conspiracy we hear everywhere around the internet, but in my in mind, this is literally 'chemical trails' being dropped in the sky for whatever reasons the military thought necessary.

Well, if you want to go with that definition, oxygen, nitrogen, water vapor, CO2 and the like that make up air are all also chemicals. So every bit of atmosphere on the planet is a big permanent chemtrail, forever.

DrumStickNinja
reply to post by St0rD

 

Crazy that it shows up on radar. I actually live in Southern Oregon and watch this news channel frequently. Missed this one! Something to note is that this is a small network area, meaning maybe 100,000 potential viewers. I say potential because, of course, not everyone watches channel 10 news.

Good find. Whether it's metallic particles or brain controlling chemicals, you can't deny that they are dropping something.

They can, will and continue to deny just about everything, even if it's right in their faces mate.

As they say EPIC FAIL as a thread and a weatherman. looks like lake effect rain to me .

reply to post by MysterX


You are wrong, they clearly dropped chaff. Nobody is denying that. But not everything is a chemtrail and trying to present it as if it is just makes that person look utterly ridiculous and be easily dismissed. Have a coherent point to make, however, and things might look different.

This is what chaff looks like when it's deployed. Once it disperses, it will be very hard to see at ground level. It's purpose is to confuse radar so a missile might not hit the aircraft. It's not used very often, and it's environmental impact is minimal to non existent. If anyone has questions about it, you can contact your local air base and speak to the press liaison who will be happy to explain it in much greater detail.

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by St0rD

 

Here I am going to try and help you out there.

It's called chafe and it has nothing to do with chemtrails.

Chaff, originally called Window[1] by the British, and Düppel by the Second World War era German Luftwaffe (from the Berlin suburb where it was first developed), is a radar countermeasure in which aircraft or other targets spread a cloud of small, thin pieces of aluminium, metallized glass fibre or plastic, which either appears as a cluster of primary targets on radar screens or swamps the screen with multiple returns.

en.wikipedia.org...(countermeasure)

I see why this would be practiced in a war zone (defensive maneuver), but I don't see why it's practiced outside of a war zone?

Bedlam

St0rD
Well, I understand this isn't the common chemtrails conspiracy we hear everywhere around the internet, but in my in mind, this is literally 'chemical trails' being dropped in the sky for whatever reasons the military thought necessary.

Well, if you want to go with that definition, oxygen, nitrogen, water vapor, CO2 and the like that make up air are all also chemicals. So every bit of atmosphere on the planet is a big permanent chemtrail, forever.

I don't understand how you can compare aluminium and plastic in the sky to oxygen and CO2 but I guess you must have your reasons...

And for the other guy claiming fail on this topic, I'd respond the goal of a thread on ATS is to inform, isn't it? That's pretty much what happened here with all the persons involved and answers provided.

loveguy
I see why this would be practiced in a war zone (defensive maneuver), but I don't see why it's practiced outside of a war zone?

Practice/training. None of this is free, so they don't pop off chaff and flare on every mission, but they do use them during training missions. Chaff shows up on radar. (as the video clearly shows) so it's not something that can be done "covertly".

network dude

loveguy
I see why this would be practiced in a war zone (defensive maneuver), but I don't see why it's practiced outside of a war zone?

Practice/training. None of this is free, so they don't pop off chaff and flare on every mission, but they do use them during training missions. Chaff shows up on radar. (as the video clearly shows) so it's not something that can be done "covertly".

Thanks, I knew this would come in handy;

plausible deniability

Flaws

The doctrine has six major flaws:
It was an open door to the abuse of authority; it required that the parties in question could be said to have acted independently, which in the end was tantamount to giving them license to act independently.[15]
It rarely worked when invoked; the denials made were rarely plausible and were generally seen through by both the media and the populace.[16] One aspect of the Watergate crisis is the repeated failure of the doctrine of plausible deniability, which the administration repeatedly attempted to use to stop the scandal affecting President Richard Nixon and his aides.
"Plausible denial" only increases the risk of misunderstanding between senior officials and their employees.[17]
It only shifts blame, and generally, constructs rather little.
If the claim fails, it seriously discredits the political figure invoking it as a defense.
If it succeeds, it creates the impression that the government is not in control of the state.

reply to post by loveguy


Thanks, that sure does clear things up...................um.....I think........no.

Chaff is chaff.
Those white lines in the sky some people call "chemtrails" are NOT chaff.

Granted, I don't think I would necessarily want the military to dump chaff in the air over my house, but I don't understand what that has anything to do with the thing people are calling 'chemtrails".

However, I understand that chaff is used to fool enemy radar and radar guided missiles, so I have no general problem with military exercises in which they practice the use of dropping chaff.

loveguy
I see why this would be practiced in a war zone (defensive maneuver), but I don't see why it's practiced outside of a war zone?

Same reason you run training exercises out at NTC instead of doing it in Iraq. Why would you practice in battle? You want to do training runs in controlled conditions.

St0rD

I don't understand how you can compare aluminium and plastic in the sky to oxygen and CO2 but I guess you must have your reasons...

I don't understand how you can compare chaff drops to chemtrails by saying "aluminum is a chamical and you dropped it in a trail so it's a chemtrail", thus the comment.

You DID look at some of the other posts, the ones with pictures, right? Chaff looks like fiberglass insulation, with a shiny coating. It's not a gas. It's not a powder. It's aluminum stuck to glass fluff, or in the case of "green" chaff, what looks like cotton wool.

These things, while light, are heavier than air. They are "in the sky" long enough to hit the ground. Sort of like a paratrooper, but fluffier. Being very light, but not buoyant, chaff may take an hour or so to hit the ground, barring being caught up in a thunderhead in the late afternoon. But it's not "spraying chemicals" by any stretch of the imagination.

Here is a documentary about chemicals being dropped from an airplane. Like chaff, the chemicals were primarily silica. And like chaff, they did not remain "in the sky", but met the fate of all things dropped from aloft that are heavier than air, and non-buoyant.