Think Organic Food is Pesticide Free? More Like Only Half The Time

Here's an article posted on the CBC Today.

Nearly half the organic fresh fruits and vegetables tested across Canada in the past two years contained pesticide residue, according to a CBC News analysis of data supplied by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).

Of the 45.8 per cent of samples that tested positive for some trace of pesticide, a smaller amount — 1.8 per cent — violated Canada’s maximum allowable limits for the presence of pesticides, the data shows.

The data released to CBC News under the federal Access to Information Act includes testing of organic fruits and vegetables sampled between September 2011 and September 2013.

They have a little graph at the bottom that you can see the various things they tested and the results. Here's a breakdown for those who can't access it:

Grapes -- 30 Samples -- 77% Contained Pesticides
Strawberries -- 15 Samples -- 67% Contained Pesticides
Potatoes & Tomatoes at 63% and 59% respectively.

The others vary between 30% and 48%.

I myself grow all organic produce for our home. The only thigns I buy from the grocery store is stuff like Mayo, or butter. I try to get all my meat from local organic sources, but that's becoming from difficult.

Now I'm happy I never fell into the 'buying organic' craze of the last few hires. Apparently higher prices don't translate to a better product.

Thoughts ATS?

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


It would be very intersting to see how much POISON is on non organic food!

The problem with growing organic is that you run the risk of pesticides being blown onto your crops. I gave up an allotment simply because the other growers were spraying poison every time I went down there, the place is drenched in all manner of chemicals.

As I've said before, you have to be carefull choosing a supplier. I visit the farms where my food is grown.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


No one controls the wind, or water runoff for that matter. And that be how pesticides get around. Assuming the growers aren't lying. btw - It's way easy to make homemade mayo if you have a food processor. Just whip up an egg into a frothy frenzy, then drizzle about 1 cup of good oil slowly into the mix (keep the machine running) til you get the thickness you want. If it breaks down and curdles don't throw it away - just add another egg and start again with the oil. Season the way you want - a bit of salt, cayenne, lemon...

VoidHawk
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The problem with growing organic is that you run the risk of pesticides being blown onto your crops. I gave up an allotment simply because the other growers were spraying poison every time I went down there, the place is drenched in all manner of chemicals.

A lot of organic farms use more pesticides than other crops. They are allowed to use pesticides so long as it's "natural". Case in point, viper venom is considered "natural" in this sense.

Take the example of Rotenone. Rotenone was widely used in the US as an organic pesticide for decades 3. Because it is natural in origin, occurring in the roots and stems of a small number of subtropical plants, it was considered “safe” as well as “organic“. However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells.

blogs.scientificamerican.com...

boncho

A lot of organic farms use more pesticides than other crops.

Is that a typo? Are you suggesting that organic farmers use more pesticides than non organic farmers?
Genuine organic farmers do not try to decieve their customers! Yes there may be a few criminal types about, but the vast majority are genuine.

boncho
They are allowed to use pesticides so long as it's "natural".

Quite true, and the farms that I use show me what they use. For example, you'd be amazed how many pests absolutley hate garlic! Just crush one garlic and mix it with one gallon of water, then spray it on your crop in the evening, next day no pests! It realy is that simple, much better than drenching with monsatans poisons.

reply to post by VoidHawk

Is that a typo? Are you suggesting that organic farmers use more pesticides than non organic farmers?
Genuine organic farmers do not try to decieve their customers! Yes there may be a few criminal types about, but the vast majority are genuine.

It's not a typo. Even anecdotally myself, I once lived in the boondocks with a small farm and I noticed that organic pesticides needed to be applied many more times than synthetic. It depends on the location of the farm, the crop being raised and the pests that are indigenous.

Keep in mind a new organic farm might go a couple years, then suddenly be overrun by one pest. So they might have used next to nothing while developing their name, then suddenly they are blasting their crops with the most toxic organic pesticides they can find. Climate can change bringing on bugs or fungi, and they have to adapt. If it wasn't like this, there would be no history of famines.

And for people saying "Well, I go down to my farm and know them… blah blah blah."

That's fine and dandy. And in some cases I bet you are getting from a good farm. But for the people that claim this do you have a list of all pesticides and herbicides they use?? (whether or not they have "organic" designation.)

Can you provide this list? Because if you can't you are blowing hot air.

Quite true, and the farms that I use show me what they use. For example, you'd be amazed how many pests absolutley hate garlic! Just crush one garlic and mix it with one gallon of water, then spray it on your crop in the evening, next day no pests! It realy is that simple, much better than drenching with monsatans poisons.

So they gave you an official list which is also passed to the regulatory agencies that deem them organic. Or they put some garlic in a spray bottle and you were satisfied?

You think growing is as simply as a little garlic on plants? Dear god….

boncho
You think growing is as simply as a little garlic on plants? Dear god….

You've made quit a lot of assumptions, without knowing ANY of the facts. Are you a non organic farmer? I ask because you always have the same response whenever a thread pops up about organic farming!

reply to post by boncho


Yeah I volunteered to work a few months on an organic farm down in Costa Rica it was a great experience butit became verry obvious that scalability to something much larger was impractical. They did have a great system. Every evening we put out scent buckets to attract bats to eat the bugs and pollinate. Every morning we had to put out different scent buckets or spray to ward off other creatures. They had tilapia ponds and raised a few pigs , chickens and such everything was reused. The only thing that was brought in was opps (salt).

They made some great sugarcane grain alcohol and grew the plant we do not discuss here for seed export to California. Yup we had fun.

They were true organic but even they fully admitted it wasn't practical for large scale. If it wasn't for volunteer, tourism, and their side export(completely legal there) they wouldn't be able to keep the place afloat.

VoidHawk

boncho
You think growing is as simply as a little garlic on plants? Dear god….

You've made quit a lot of assumptions, without knowing ANY of the facts. Are you a non organic farmer? I ask because you always have the same response whenever a thread pops up about organic farming!

And you said;

As I've said before, you have to be carefull choosing a supplier. I visit the farms where my food is grown

Still waiting for the official list of pesticides and herbicides your farm uses. Whether it be garlic or bat piss.

Or you concede you visit the farms you buy from but really have no idea what they put in their crops?

Large scale organic farming can be acheived easily, with a community garden in every community on earth. Companion planting, crop rotation, and a spray of garlic, citronella, and neem oil will keep bugs/fungi at bay. Food safety for the planet and less dependancy on the government as well...if any.. *sigh* agriculture can solve most of the worlds problems I beleive, one day it will happen.

boncho
Still waiting for the official list of pesticides and herbicides your farm uses. Whether it be garlic or bat piss.

Or you concede you visit the farms you buy from but really have no idea what they put in their crops?

Do you have an official list of what they are using?
The difference between me and you is simple. I visit the farms I buy from, YOU havent, your not even in the same country! so how could you even know what your talking about!

You clearly wish to spread the illusion that these farms are sneeking in non organic pesticides, thats quite clear, however, at least you seem to understand that the non organic stuff is dangerous!

VoidHawk

boncho
Still waiting for the official list of pesticides and herbicides your farm uses. Whether it be garlic or bat piss.

Or you concede you visit the farms you buy from but really have no idea what they put in their crops?

Do you have an official list of what they are using?
The difference between me and you is simple. I visit the farms I buy from, YOU havent, your not even in the same country! so how could you even know what your talking about!

You clearly wish to spread the illusion that these farms are sneeking in non organic pesticides, thats quite clear, however, at least you seem to understand that the non organic stuff is dangerous!

Visiting a farm doesn't tell you what they are using on their crops. Asking them for a copy of all the substances they use for pest mitigation however, does, but clearly you didn't do that so you have no clue what your farm puts on their crops.

On the other hand, I can tell you what is allowable, as in, what "may" be put on them:

§ 205.601 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic crop production.
In accordance with restrictions specified in this section, the following synthetic substances may be used in organic crop production: Provided, That, use of such substances do not contribute to contamination of crops, soil, or water. Substances allowed by this section, except disinfectants and sanitizers in paragraph (a) and those substances in paragraphs (c), (j), (k), and (l) of this
1
section, may only be used when the provisions set forth in §205.206(a) through (d) prove insufficient to prevent or control the target pest.
(a) As algicide, disinfectants, and sanitizer, including irrigation system cleaning systems.
(1) Alcohols.
(i) Ethanol.
(ii) Isopropanol.
(2) Chlorine materials— Except, That, residual chlorine levels in the water shall not exceed the maximum residual disinfectant limit under the Safe Drinking Water Act.
(i) Calcium hypochlorite.
(ii) Chlorine dioxide.
(iii) Sodium hypochlorite.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as an algicide in aquatic rice systems, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to those which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Ozone gas—for use as an irrigation system cleaner only.
(6) Peracetic acid—for use in disinfecting equipment, seed, and asexually propagated planting material.
(7) Soap-based algicide/demossers.
(b) As herbicides, weed barriers, as applicable.
(1) Herbicides, soap-based—for use in farmstead maintenance (roadways, ditches, right of ways, building perimeters) and ornamental crops.
(2) Mulches.
(i) Newspaper or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
(ii) Plastic mulch and covers (petroleum-based other than polyvinyl chloride (PVC)).
(c) As compost feedstocks—Newspapers or other recycled paper, without glossy or colored inks.
2
(d) As animal repellents—Soaps, ammonium—for use as a large animal repellant only, no contact with soil or edible portion of crop.
(e) As insecticides (including acaricides or mite control).
(1) Ammonium carbonate—for use as bait in insect traps only, no direct contact with crop or soil.
(2) Boric acid—structural pest control, no direct contact with organic food or crops.
(3) Copper sulfate—for use as tadpole shrimp control in aquatic rice production, is limited to one application per field during any 24-month period. Application rates are limited to levels which do not increase baseline soil test values for copper over a timeframe agreed upon by the producer and accredited certifying agent.
(4) Elemental sulfur.
(5) Lime sulfur—including calcium polysulfide.
(6) Oils, horticultural—narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(7) Soaps, insecticidal.
(8) Sticky traps/barriers.
(9) Sucrose octanoate esters (CAS #s—42922–74–7; 58064–47–4)—in accordance with approved labeling.
(f) As insect management. Pheromones.
(g) As rodenticides.
(1) Sulfur dioxide—underground rodent control only (smoke bombs).
(2) Vitamin D3.
(h) As slug or snail bait. Ferric phosphate (CAS # 10045–86–0).
(i) As plant disease control.
(1) Coppers, fixed—copper hydroxide, copper oxide, copper oxychloride, includes products exempted from EPA tolerance, Provided, That, copper-based materials must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation in the soil and shall not be used as herbicides.
(2) Copper sulfate—Substance must be used in a manner that minimizes accumulation of copper in the soil. 3
(3) Hydrated lime.
(4) Hydrogen peroxide.
(5) Lime sulfur.
(6) Oils, horticultural, narrow range oils as dormant, suffocating, and summer oils.
(7) Peracetic acid—for use to control fire blight bacteria.
(8) Potassium bicarbonate.
(9) Elemental sulfur.
(10) Streptomycin, for fire blight control in apples and pears only.
(11) Tetracycline (oxytetracycline calcium complex), for fire blight control only.
(j) As plant or soil amendments.
(1) Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed)—Extraction process is limited to the use of potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.
(2) Elemental sulfur.
(3) Humic acids—naturally occurring deposits, water and alkali extracts only.
(4) Lignin sulfonate—chelating agent, dust suppressant, floatation agent.
(5) Magnesium sulfate—allowed with a documented soil deficiency.
(6) Micronutrients—not to be used as a defoliant, herbicide, or desiccant. Those made from nitrates or chlorides are not allowed. Soil deficiency must be documented by testing.
(i) Soluble boron products.
(ii) Sulfates, carbonates, oxides, or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese, molybdenum, selenium, and cobalt.
(7) Liquid fish products—can be pH adjusted with sulfuric, citric or phosphoric acid. The amount of acid used shall not exceed the minimum needed to lower the pH to 3.5.
(8) Vitamins, B1, C, and E.
(k) As plant growth regulators. Ethylene gas—for regulation of pineapple flowering.
4
(l) As floating agents in postharvest handling.
(1) Lignin sulfonate.
(2) Sodium silicate—for tree fruit and fiber processing.
(m) As synthetic inert ingredients as classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for use with nonsynthetic substances or synthetic substances listed in this section and used as an active pesticide ingredient in accordance with any limitations on the use of such substances.
(1) EPA List 4—Inerts of Minimal Concern.
(2) EPA List 3—Inerts of Unknown Toxicity allowed:
(i) Glycerine Oleate (Glycerol monooleate) (CAS #s 37220–82–9)—for use only until December 31, 2006.
(ii) Inerts used in passive pheromone dispensers.
(n) Seed preparations. Hydrogen chloride (CAS # 7647–01–0)—for delinting cotton seed for planting.
(o)–(z) [Reserved]
[65 FR 80637, Dec. 21, 2000, as amended at 68 FR 61992, Oct. 31, 2003; 71 FR 53302 Sept. 11, 2006; 72 FR 69572, Dec. 10, 2007]

The above is just a list of "synthetics" that are allowed in organic farming, it does not include the "natural" substances. Arsenic being something considered "non-synthetic". At least they banned that though.

§ 205.602 Nonsynthetic substances prohibited for use in organic crop production.

(b) Arsenic.

www.ams.usda.gov...

reply to post by VoidHawk

You clearly wish to spread the illusion that these farms are sneeking in non organic pesticides, thats quite clear, however, at least you seem to understand that the non organic stuff is dangerous!

Actually I did no such thing. I said that organic pesticides can be just as bad as the others. Therefore making the marketing efforts and increased cost of organic farming a slight of hand that turned a mildly profitable industry into a booming profit driven one based solely on peoples' fears.

I don't go so far as to say, "all organics are bad" or "all organics are crap".

I merely point out time and time again a crappy organic farmer can use way more pesticide (so called "natural" pesticides") that are just as detrimental to a person than synthetic ones. In fact, synthetic pesticides in many cases only take one application in the early stages of growth and some natural ones have to be constantly applied. Both are not good for humans.

I just get irritated when people read "organic" and "natural" and start having kumbayah circle jerks under the moon.

Rotenone, nicotine, pyrethrum and neem are examples of botanical insecticides. Just because the materials are natural, however, doesn't mean they are always less toxic than the synthetics.

Rotenone is produced from the roots of two tropical members of the bean plant family. It has been used as a crop insecticide since the mid-1800's to control leaf eating caterpillars, and it often is recommended for flea beetle control on early season vegetables. It is six times more toxic than carbaryl, (sevin), a synthetic product, also effective for caterpillar and flea beetle control.

Nicotine sulfate has been used since the turn of the century and is the most hazardous botanical insecticide available to home gardeners. The insecticide is extracted from tobacco by steam distillation or solvent extraction. Highly toxic to humans and other warm blooded animals, nicotine sulfate is rapidly absorbed through the skin. It is six times more toxic than diazinon, a widely available synthetic insecticide sold for control of many of the same pests.

Like most organic pesticides, nicotine and rotenone break down rapidly meaning the highest hazard is to the applicator, birds and other wildlife present at the time of application.

Some organic insecticides are very effective for pest control AND have a high degree of associated safety.

Pyrethrum, extracted from the dried flowers of the pyrethrum daisy, has a rapid "knockdown" effect on many insects. It has very low toxicity to mammals and is best used for exposed caterpillars, sawfly larvae, leaf beetles and leafhoppers. Because of its short persistence, its effectiveness is limited but so are its impacts on natural insect enemies.

www.colostate.edu...

Nicotine for instance, is a natural pesticide. And while I am deeply in love with its effects at a very, very moderate dosage, I still am cognizant of the fact that one drop of 100% purity could kill me.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I cant click on the article for some reason (its my script blocker) but my understanding is that herbicides and pesticides are used on organic food but that they are natural or chemical free.

Does the article touch on this at all?

There are also cases of cross contamination.

Commercially grown organic produce can have some organic certified pesticides or miticides sprayed on it that can be just as dangerous or possibly even more dangerous than inorganic chemicals. Just because it is certified organic does not mean it is completely safe.

When we used to spray DDT on the fields when I was a kid, the clouds of spray traveled all over the place. I sat on the tractor with my dad spraying the certified safe chemicals using handkerchiefs to cover our faces. That was back in the early to mid sixties.

reply to post by boncho



Be honest, given the choice, which one would you feed to your child?

reply to post by soficrow


I'm going to try that. What kind of oil works best. I'm not into extra virgin anything.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Your thread title is so misleading and therefore inaccurate. This is the trouble with sites like these, posts being put up by people who do the minimum of research (in this case got their facts from the MSN) and produce a half hearted attempt to bring about some form response from people eager to lap up the bare minimum.

Your title makes a statement that does NOT clarify you are ONLY referring to Canada (a country that has a long history of misinforming its people within the boundaries of Health and Welfare) and not the entire "pesticide free food" world-wide.

So thanks for that.

VoidHawk
reply to post by boncho

 

Be honest, given the choice, which one would you feed to your child?

Cute graphic. Sadly not just a few posts ago I listed pesticides allowed in organic use so it's complete BS.

Reminds me of the vaccine debate.

reply to post by rickymouse


The oil you use to make mayo can affect flavor - canola is good for health and neutral taste. Add just a dash of flaxseed and/or virgin olive oil for health benefits but do not overdo it. (Big yech.) Experimenting is good.