Video captures moment PCSO who pulled over a driver was then arrested HIMSELF for being twice the li

The video, and accompanying story pretty much says it all, a police officer gets arrested for being in a pickle...sorry pickled. The irate driver who was pulled over is the video man, who made a call to police. It is also his voice you can hear on the video.


www.dailymail.co.uk...
In edit,
Thame Valley police say he is no longer an employee, though it is not clear if he was an employee before the altercation as the PCSO was in uniform, it is not clear either if the PC was in a patrol car.

The youtube video,

The officer who in the video is trying to block the camera person from filming should go down in history. He is as guilty as the drunk one.

this civilians lucky if it was in the U.S, he would most likely have been executed at the scene and no one would have found out about this.

smurfy
The video, and accompanying story pretty much says it all, a police officer gets arrested for being in a pickle...sorry pickled. The irate driver who was pulled over is the video man, who made a call to police. It is also his voice you can hear on the video

I've got no sympathy for this idiot at all but, before the anti police mob start gloating too much, this d*ckhead is NOT a police officer. He is a a pcso, a Police Community Support Officer. Basically a uniform carrier that the Labour government introduced to try and cover the fact that there were not enough proper uniformed warranted police officers patrolling the streets of the UK. I fact, this pcso shouldn't even be driving a marked police car. He hasn't got the power to pull anyone over so what's the point of driving a marked police car with blue lights etc?

I know the OP is from Northern Ireland and I don't believe that they have PCSO's over there but please try to make the differentiation which, I believe, is very important.

PCSO's do not have the powers of proper police constables and are pretty useless. I don't even know whether this person had the power to stop the member of the public. I doubt it very much.

Still, this just makes me laugh. The fact that he thought he could turn up to work pissed and drive around in a marked police car is pathetic. Good riddance.

dainoyfb
The officer who in the video is trying to block the camera person from filming should go down in history. He is as guilty as the drunk one.

edit on 8-1-2014 by dainoyfb because: I felt like it.

Yes, but what was quite funny, was that the motorist/cameraman says to that policeman, "No I don't want you"
The motorist is actually a car dealer, and when he asked why he was being pulled over, The drunk policeman said ,"He could smell drugs" ?? WTF was the initial stop for then? Since nothing else is given, we must assume that the policeman is psychic.

smurfy

dainoyfb
The officer who in the video is trying to block the camera person from filming should go down in history. He is as guilty as the drunk one.

edit on 8-1-2014 by dainoyfb because: I felt like it.

Yes, but what was quite funny, was that the motorist/cameraman says to that policeman, "No I don't want you"
The motorist is actually a car dealer, and when he asked why he was being pulled over, The drunk policeman said ,"He could smell drugs" ?? WTF was the initial stop for then? Since nothing else is given, we must assume that the policeman is psychic.

He may be drunk and he may (or not) be psychic but he IS NOT a policeman FFS. Why can't you understand the difference. And so what if the the motorist was a car dealer. Are they more trustworthy than other people? I don't think so.

iskander683

smurfy
The video, and accompanying story pretty much says it all, a police officer gets arrested for being in a pickle...sorry pickled. The irate driver who was pulled over is the video man, who made a call to police. It is also his voice you can hear on the video

. He hasn't got the power to pull anyone over so what's the point of driving a marked police car with blue lights etc?

I know the OP is from Northern Ireland and I don't believe that they have PCSO's over there but please try to make the differentiation which, I believe, is very important.

PCSO's do not have the powers of proper police constables and are pretty useless. I don't even know whether this person had the power to stop the member of the public. I doubt it very much.

He does have the power to make a traffic stop, he has the power to stop and search, and make a citizens arrest, and in fact his powers are discretionary due to a chief constable's decision. The rest of your post is politics. This OP lives in NI, but is not from NI.
No there are no PCSO'S in Ni, nor are there any reserve constables since 2011, (who were often full-time) but there are community police who are warranted officers, however they are thin on the ground as yet.

iskander683
before the anti police mob start gloating too much, this d*ckhead is NOT a police officer. He is a a pcso, a Police Community Support Officer. Basically a uniform carrier that the Labour government introduced to try and cover the fact that there were not enough proper uniformed warranted police officers patrolling the streets of the UK. I fact, this pcso shouldn't even be driving a marked police car. He hasn't got the power to pull anyone over so what's the point of driving a marked police car with blue lights etc?

If it is paid by the ducks to walk like a duck and quack like a duck...then it's a duck.

iskander683

smurfy


Yes, but what was quite funny, was that the motorist/cameraman says to that policeman, "No I don't want you"
The motorist is actually a car dealer, and when he asked why he was being pulled over, The drunk policeman said ,"He could smell drugs" ?? WTF was the initial stop for then? Since nothing else is given, we must assume that the policeman is psychic.

He may be drunk and he may (or not) be psychic but he IS NOT a policeman FFS. Why can't you understand the difference.

And so what if the the motorist was a car dealer. Are they more trustworthy than other people? I don't think so.

edit on 8/1/2014 by iskander683 because: (no reason given)

That premise is wrong, the PCSO did a traffic stop that was within his powers, for pretty much a contrived reason and that PCSO was pissed, and was talking shiite. As for car dealer, I'm pretty sure they are Kosher with dealing with police, nothing to to with trust, and conversely the man had done nothing wrong, while the policeman was all over the shop.

reply to post by PLAYERONE01


The police in America wouldn't have to kill this guy. They don't kill because they have to, just because they can. When it's personal they can go a lot further than shooting you- they can break into your house, beat up your family, shoot your dog in front of your kids, take everything you own, and keep you in a cage in their office building to think about it for a few months before either shipping you off to an even worse cage or tossing you back out as a second class citizen with a record and a lot of debts. I know a guy who was charged with destruction of jail property after the guards slamed his head into the pay phone so hard it broke. They love adding insult to injury like that.

So If this had happened in America they'd tackle him, break a few bones, cuff him and stand on his back for 20 minutes before declaring him safe to approach for paramedics, confiscate his phone as evidence and delete the video, charge him with half a dozen things he didn't do and half a dozen more that aren't even actually laws on the books just to run his bail up further than he could afford, sit him down with an attorney who doesn't know the case and doesn't have time to care who tells him that if he doesn't plea bargain and keep his mouth shut he's gonna spend months in county just waiting to get into a court that's gonna rubber stamp him into a dark hole for 10 years in about 2 days flat. Any way they go, it's months if not years before this guy comes out of the system with his injuries healed, his evidence gone, tens of thousands of dollars in debt and a criminal record- real credible witness against the police right?

There are no authorities anywhere in the world. That's just a word that some people with guns made up to hide their sins. But I do love it when they have to give us a token bad cop in court to preserve the illusion that the government doesn't know and approve of how its enforcers really treat the public.

I hope the camera man has a good lawyer, and keeps his nose REALLY clean from now on. The police won't be happy at having to arrest "one of their own". He has only made himself a target.

smurfy

iskander683

smurfy
The video, and accompanying story pretty much says it all, a police officer gets arrested for being in a pickle...sorry pickled. The irate driver who was pulled over is the video man, who made a call to police. It is also his voice you can hear on the video

He does have the power to make a traffic stop, he has the power to stop and search, and make a citizens arrest, and in fact his powers are discretionary due to a chief constable's decision. The rest of your post is politics. This OP lives in NI, but is not from NI.
No there are no PCSO'S in Ni, nor are there any reserve constables since 2011, (who were often full-time) but there are community police who are warranted officers, however they are thin on the ground as yet.

You are incorrect.

Firstly, PCSO's cannot carry out a traffic stop, they have to have a proper warranted officer to do it for them. They cannot stand at the side of the road and stop a vehicle and they definitely cannot use blue lights to effect a traffic stop.

Secondly, they do not have the power to stop and search as in Section 1 of PACE.

Anyone has the power to arrest under the right circumstances, including PCSO's, but the circumstances are limited.

Not sure where you get your information from but it is wrong. Much as you seem to want the PCSO to be a real policeman, he isn't......................however, the fact that he was drunk and in a police car is the point here. He got what was coming and deserved it....................Still isn't a 'policeman' though.

Yes, PCSO's (Police Community Support Officers) are people recruited from local communities, given a mediocum of training, then given a uniform, and are paid to "patrol" their neighbourhoods.

They do not have any additional powers that a civilian wouldn't normally have anyway. They can arrest you, but its only a citizens arrest, and governed by the same rules as any other citizens arrest, and if the arrest was found to be without merit, can be charge with improper arrest and false inprisonment.The same as any other citizen would be. Which is why they don't, and call for a warranted officer to make the arrest instead.

Their 'power' if it can be called that, comes from what people believe they can do, not what they can actually do. I've faced many of them down in the past, but then I know my rights, and the limits of their authority.

Last year I had to leave a bicycle at the store to be fixed. Rather than pay the bus-fare back home, I decided to walk home. Part way home, I passed a housing estate scheduled for demolition, and therefore empty. I knew that there was a nice grassy square surrounded by benches in the estate. So I entered, and sat down on a bench, listening to my music on an mp3 player, resting my bad ankle (I broke it some years ago, its never been right since).

A PCSO came wandering in after me.

"Excuse me sir, what are you doing here?"
"Sitting down, resting my ankle. You?"
"Um, I was investigating what you were doing here. I saw you enter."
"Excellent. Keep up the good work."

OK, sure, I was a little bit sarcastic with her. Perhaps unwarrantedd.

"This is private land sir."
"Yeah, it is. Correct."
"You are trespassing."
"Probably on a point of technicality, yes I am. But since the landowner hasn't made formal complaint of trespass, then there's no issue."
"I'm going to search you."
"No you're not."
"I beg your pardon?"
"I do not give permission for a search."
"I don't need permission."
"Oh? Thats a new one. Can I see your warrant card please?"
"I don't have one. I'm a PCSO."
"Indeed. Only warranted officers can make a search without permission."
"I could call for one."
"Be my guest, if you believe it warranted."
"Please leave this area."
"No. But do feel free to leave yourself."
"You're trespassing."
"Which is a civil offence, not criminal. Unless the landower makes a complaint, theres nothing you or a warranted officer can do about it."

At this point, frustration being obvious on her face, she turned, and left. I stayed for perhaps 30 mins more before leaving myself, mainly to see if proper full warranted officers turned up. They didn't.

Don't let PCSO's bully you. They are just civilians in a uniform.

BMorris
.. to see if proper full warranted officers turned up. They didn't.

There the jargon is correct, warranted officers AKA police officers. PCSO's are unwarranted officers, but both are members of the police force, [sic] [as per the Met police] so both groups are policemen and women.

This is what they are trained for,
Radio procedure
Report writing
Dealing with evidence
Gathering intelligence
Managing a crime scene
Entering premises
Use of force
Communication
Human rights
Race & diversity
Road checks
Stop and search
Health, safety & welfare
Officer safety
Emergency life support

They can also be used in a manner at the discretion of their commander where he/she thinks appropriate. PCSO's were used extensively in terrorism, see The Guardian link specifically about PCSO's and stop and search, (likely both personal and road checks) and I'll bet only a liasioning sergeant on the radio.

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk...

For terrorism related suspicion or checks there is no right other than to comply to a search. That commanders can use their discretion, means that not all things are equal according to where you are.

smurfy

BMorris
.. to see if proper full warranted officers turned up. They didn't.

There the jargon is correct, warranted officers AKA police officers. PCSO's are unwarranted officers, but both are members of the police force, [sic] [as per the Met police] so both groups are policemen and women.

This is what they are trained for,
Radio procedure
Report writing
Dealing with evidence
Gathering intelligence
Managing a crime scene
Entering premises
Use of force
Communication
Human rights
Race & diversity
Road checks
Stop and search
Health, safety & welfare
Officer safety
Emergency life support

They can also be used in a manner at the discretion of their commander where he/she thinks appropriate. PCSO's were used extensively in terrorism, see The Guardian link specifically about PCSO's and stop and search, (likely both personal and road checks) and I'll bet only a liasioning sergeant on the radio.

www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk...

For terrorism related suspicion or checks there is no right other than to comply to a search. That commanders can use their discretion, means that not all things are equal according to where you are.

You don't seem to get it. Only warranted officers are policemen or policewomen. PCSO's are police staff, just the same as an admin assistant that works in a station somewhere. Just because one is employed by a police force doesn't make one a policeman. This is a fact.

They CANNOT stop and search. They can carry out something that's called stop and account. The article is not very well written and seems to be trying to dramatise things a tad. For instance, the following

'Figures obtained by the Croydon Guardian under the Freedom of Information Act show that in 2005 just one person was stopped by Police Community Support Officers compared to 2008 when 620 were stopped.

The dramatic figures show despite the lack of powers PCSOs have, they are being allowed to search people’s property in the presence of a police officer under section 43 and section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000.'

The first paragraph correctly refers to persons stopped - this is different to stop and search. The second paragraph just refers to peoples property which would be looking through a bag etc. This is different to going through their pockets and patting them down etc as one would do during a stop and search by a properly empowered police officer.

Basically, if you're stopped in the street by a PCSO, they can ask for your details - you don't have to give them - and they can ask why you're in the area etc. Again, you don't have to tell them. They cannot search you or anything you're carrying under any powers. That changes slightly when a proper warranted police officer is present as is mentioned in the article but only under certain circumstances. Just because they've had an input regarding stop and search doesn't mean they can carry it out.

As a final point, where you say -

'see The Guardian link specifically about PCSO's and stop and search, (likely both personal and road checks) and I'll bet only a liasioning sergeant on the radio.'

seems to be slightly presumptuous if you don't mind me saying. To say 'likely both personal and road checks' is just presumption on your part. It specifically says in the article that they were allowed to search people's property in the presence of a police officer. The fact that the article then turns this into 'stop and search' just shows the use of dramatic and sensationalist language on the part of the reporter.

Stop and search is the act of stopping a person and, if there are sufficient grounds, searching the person, anything they are carrying and their vehicle if they have one. This is fairly intimate if you are the person involved and is carried out by warranted police officers only. NOT PCSO's.

Hope this helps.

I watched a documentary about PCSO's a while ago, dont know if it's still true but at the time they were saying that the powers they have vary depending on the region they work in, which makes it very hard for people to know exactly what powers the PCSO they have run into has.

WilsonWilson
I watched a documentary about PCSO's a while ago, dont know if it's still true but at the time they were saying that the powers they have vary depending on the region they work in, which makes it very hard for people to know exactly what powers the PCSO they have run into has.

That is correct, the local commander has an imput. You can go to officer forums dealing with just that. Some people have made FOI requests trying to clarify things. For instance, a transport PCSO is not necessarily confined to a railway station in a pursuit, indeed people would expect them to continue a pursuit.

I doubt whether a PCSO would actually pursue anyone.

As you seem to be somebody who tries to ignore posts that present a reasoned discussion and only respond to posts that you agree with, I wont bother anymore. I'll just say that, as a person who has actually worked alongside PCSO's operationally in that past, I think I can offer a bit more than insight from reading forums or watching documentaries.

At least you've stopped calling them 'policemen' now.

See ya.

iskander683
I doubt whether a PCSO would actually pursue anyone.



At least you've stopped calling them 'policemen' now.

See ya.

edit on 11/1/2014 by iskander683 because: (no reason given)

"At least you've stopped calling them 'policemen' now" It's phrases like that, that are a complete turn off for me, and it's off topic.

"I doubt whether a PCSO would actually pursue anyone" That's off topic too, however, make a FOI request and you will be given an answer that directly confirms what I have said on that matter.

This is an extract from an actual FOI request,

Question,

Do PCSOs have any jurisdiction beyond 1 metre from railway
premises/land?

Answer,

In the ordinary course of activity a PCSO would not operate outside of the
railway premises or the immediate environment of railway premises (the
exact distance is not defined). However, in an emergency or if it would
damage public confidence if a PCSO did not act it may still be lawful for
a PCSO to act outside of the railway environment.

It's not all so cut and dried as people might wish, is it? Hope this helps.