Science and the Afterlife Experience

BlueMule

wildtimes
Interesting stuff. But yeah, I'm an agnostic Deistic, and the evidence seems to me to be quite convincing.

I hover somewhere between panendeism and panentheism.

Panendeism is a sub-category of Deism. It is based on the speculation that the universe is a part of god, but not all of god and literally means "all in god". Some panendeists have established numerous additional beliefs, some of which are quite detailed, and use more specialized terminology to describe their beliefs. However, any deist who believes that the universe is a part (but not the whole) of god, can be considered a panendeist.

panendeism.webs.com...

Wow. Thank you. I have been looking for what this belief is called for awhile. I would consider myself a Panendeist also.

wildtimes
reply to post by Strayed

 

What if you don't care for uniting with a Source? Even if one did have all they could garner from human experience through going through a hellish cycle of having yourself erased and having your individual human experiences belittled by having them ripped away and replaced with new ones ad nauseum... making the actual human experience wholly artificial and meaningless what then if you would rather not exist than exist as a bland boring monster of a human experience parasite in a sea of other bland boring human experience parasites?

This is an exceptionally negative view, but you are, of course, entitled to it.

No one said anything about having your 'individual human experiences belittled by having them ripped away.'

Who says souls - oh, sorry, "human experience parasites" are 'bland and boring'?

The point is education through experience. But, if you're not interested, you're not. Whatever you think you want is your prerogative. I don't find people 'bland and boring', and I think the purpose is to continue growing.

Ah I see. As I expected no actual answers and you don't look at the details of the implications of the phenomenon that you seem to promote as truth. I just detected (rightly or wrongly) a certainty in your post that encouraged me to probe the foundations of your belief only to find nothing there anymore than what causes people to adamantly back their favorite religion and in regard to that realm of thinking or lack there of to each their own.

reply to post by Strayed

I just detected (rightly or wrongly) a certainty in your post that encouraged me to probe the foundations of your belief only to find nothing there anymore than what causes people to adamantly back their favorite religion and in regard to that realm of thinking or lack there of to each their own.

What?
First of all, I don't have a "favorite religion" - I'm agnostic, and do not attend any church or claim fealty to any religion. Buddhism is the closest to a philosophy I can embrace. But that is beside the point.

You are describing reincarnation as some sort of eternal torment, and disregarding the notion that our Higher Selves DO accumulate knowledge; the theory is that between lifetimes, there is a period of rest and reflection, followed by a sort of "meeting with advisor(s)", to determine what lessons are needed. The HS retains this 'objective', while our earthly conscious does not recall it - therefore, the experience is 'authentic', unscripted, and all the more educational.

"Nothing there"? I'm sorry, but I have been intensely interested in this subject for my whole life, and have done a doctorate's worth of studying and contemplating it; billions of people in the world believe it as well, and I read 'scholarly texts' (of which this trio of books are three).

I've read countless others, watched countless lectures and documentaries, scoured ancient texts, and more recent ones, and this is what I believe to be true.

For more insight into my 'background' and 'sources', feel free to read through my entire profile and threads. That will give you a more clear picture.

Until then, spare me the childish flaming.

reply to post by MamaJ

I am not trying to debate beliefs as I understand we each have a different philosophy and said philosophy may even change from time to time as we evolve, but it doesn't negate the fact there are many lives to be lived and an afterlife. Consciousness goes on!!

I will check into those books, THANK YOU!

Quite - I know you'll enjoy them. As with most of the authors I choose to read, none of them claim "THERE IS NO GOD." In fact, the more I read, the more I see modern discoveries and research and science pointing to things once considered only "superstition". Interesting.

Anyway, I hope that those who are interested to follow through and read the books; another gem is Evan Harris Walker's "The Physics of Consciousness", which I borrowed from the library about 3.5 years ago. It was my first exposure to the quantum theory indicating survival of consciousness.

In fact, doing a simple search for the subject of quantum and consciousness results in LOTS of similar books, articles, and texts.

reply to post by randyvs


LOL!!

Enjoy the flick - it's fun. No gore, no porn, no profanity....how refreshing!!

wildtimes
reply to post by Strayed

 

I just detected (rightly or wrongly) a certainty in your post that encouraged me to probe the foundations of your belief only to find nothing there anymore than what causes people to adamantly back their favorite religion and in regard to that realm of thinking or lack there of to each their own.

What?
First of all, I don't have a "favorite religion" - I'm agnostic, and do not attend any church or claim fealty to any religion. Buddhism is the closest to a philosophy I can embrace. But that is beside the point.

You are describing reincarnation as some sort of eternal torment, and disregarding the notion that our Higher Selves DO accumulate knowledge; the theory is that between lifetimes, there is a period of rest and reflection, followed by a sort of "meeting with advisor(s)", to determine what lessons are needed. The HS retains this 'objective', while our earthly conscious does not recall it - therefore, the experience is 'authentic', unscripted, and all the more educational.

"Nothing there"? I'm sorry, but I have been intensely interested in this subject for my whole life, and have done a doctorate's worth of studying and contemplating it; billions of people in the world believe it as well, and I read 'scholarly texts' (of which this trio of books are three).

I've read countless others, watched countless lectures and documentaries, scoured ancient texts, and more recent ones, and this is what I believe to be true.

For more insight into my 'background' and 'sources', feel free to read through my entire profile and threads. That will give you a more clear picture.

Until then, spare me the childish flaming.

No flaming, it was an assessment, a conclusion based off of your response. The remark about religion was actually a comparison the type of foundation of your stance and once I realized that I respect it the same as I respect a persons right to believe in whatever religion they want and view it the same way.

Regarding this "Higher Self", that is not me. I have no knowledge of it and if all of a sudden it collects all my experiences and memories and tosses it into a sea of other human memories that "I" have not experienced that monster of a human life experience parasite would certainly not be me either. Regarding advisors, based out of what authority and again to what ultimate end what logical meaningful purpose vs. simply making everyone the same bland being. See I don't think people per say are bland and boring I think people are diverse and have intrinsic value as such due to their diversity… the process of every human experiencing every human experience makes that a bit of a wash and at that point yes the end result to me is a boring monster that isn't human and would be like many of the monsters who have undergone the same procedure.

I've researched this along with many other aspects and notions of the potential here after as well to a ridiculous extent and have encountered the view as you described it similar to Michael Newton's view of which I analyzed previously. Noticing you shared a similar view to his I decided to probe it for substance other than just decided belief or what I have encountered previously.

reply to post by Strayed


All right, then. I think I understand better.
I was not understanding why you said I had "nothing".

Anyway, all I can suggest is that we are at different 'levels' of growth????

I don't know. I just find the subject fascinating, and more and more science is backing it up. That's what excites my search.

I've been enjoying your discussion. I don't have a lot of constructive material to add, but, if you haven't read The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge by Jeremy Nasby I think there might be some interesting ideas to add to what you've found heretofore in regard to your topic. Narby is an anthropologist who has spent considerable time with shamanic cultures in South America. His basic thesis (my own paraphrasing) is that our DNA is not merely organic matter but living and intelligent. Notice the use of intelligent rather than aware; that's what keeps it from merely being "woo" for me, LOL.

Here's a sample:

“When I started reading the literature of molecular biology, I was stunned by certain descriptions. Admittedly, I was on the lookout for anything unusual, as my investigation had led me to consider that DNA and its cellular machinery truly were an extremely sophisticated technology of cosmic origin. But as I pored over thousands of pages of biological texts, I discovered a world of science fiction that seemed to confirm my hypothesis. Proteins and enzymes were described as 'miniature robots,' ribosomes were 'molecular computers,' cells were 'factories,' DNA itself was a 'text,' a 'program,' a 'language,' or 'data.' One only had to do a literal reading of contemporary biology to reach shattering conclusions; yet most authors display a total lack of astonishment and seem to consider that life is merely 'a normal physiochemical phenomenon.”

Yes, Narby like all of us is subject to confirmation bias, but, nonetheless ... here's what I have to contribute in a purely speculative "what if" category.

What if the DNA that is basically the same in all life on this planet provides a sort of virtual world in which a given 'personality matrix' or soul could be stored and could continue to exist after the physical death of the originating body (of that personality)? What if the death process (or constant life processes) "uploads" our psyche into that Nucleotide Network and stores it as information (or perhaps 'virtual avatars' that could live and move in a 'virtual realm' not unlike modern video games)?

What if, what if, what if. Pure speculation. No hard evidence. Such a reality level certainly could explain a lot that is otherwise inexplicably unique about the human species, though, couldn't it?

(And before any one says "well why don't animals have souls" let me just say if anything has a soul, everything does. Who's interested in an 'afterlife' if I don't to see all my past canine and feline friends there. No hard evidence for that one either, LOL)

(I can also suggest Michael Talbot's The Holographic Universe as well as Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind for more reasonable if not rational contributions to your study/idea/contemplations.)

Best, Gryph

wildtimes
the notion that our Higher Selves DO accumulate knowledge

Perhaps its not "knowledge" as we know it, but an accumulation of energy that results in growth. Like photosynthesis, where our bodies would be the leaves, our mind the trunk/branches, and our "spirit" the roots.

reply to post by Serdgiam

Perhaps its not "knowledge" as we know it, but an accumulation of energy that results in growth. Like photosynthesis, where our bodies would be the leaves, our mind the trunk/branches, and our "spirit" the roots.

I like it.
Nice metaphor.

I still believe that 'accumlated energy' is -- at some level -- recorded in our deepest (or most ethereal) awareness. That when we die, our Higher Self kicks in to take care of the next steps.

BlueMule

cloudwatcher
I don't believe in the whole getting reincarnated over and over again til you get it right...if that were the case, there would be no need for a messiah, a Jesus or a god of any sort.

Perhaps the Christ is the future part of you that gets it right eventually. Perhaps it reaches into the past from the future to guide you to re-member yourself.

And just what, exactly, constitutes "getting it right"?

Perhaps to get it right is to break the cycle of death-and-rebirth so that you can chill in pure bliss forever.

edit on 8-1-2014 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

I would probably buy into a lot of what people say on here IF I had not personally died for 7 minutes and then remained in a coma on life support for a month and a half. I would say that kinda makes me more knowledgeable in the subject. All men are appointed ONCE to die. Not over and over again.

The ancients knew this. The old Sumerian texts speak of the resurrection that the Christians talk about in their Bible. Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust. They preserved their bodies for this reason. NOT the afterlife as mainstream "Education" would have you believe. You get one shot at this life. You had best believe that. The Spirit quickens lest we all be consumed by death.

cloudwatcher

I would probably buy into a lot of what people say on here IF I had not personally died for 7 minutes and then remained in a coma on life support for a month and a half. I would say that kinda makes me more knowledgeable in the subject. All men are appointed ONCE to die. Not over and over again.

May I ask, had you experienced anything that you could remember while you were in a comatose state?

reply to post by wildtimes


I disagree totally. Whether you BELIEVE or not is not important to the powers that be. Powers in High places. Spiritual laws and principles and that you cannot understand without the Helper. Then once you received that Gift, you have no need that any man teach you because the SOURCE or as I call HIM GOD, writes his thoughts and laws on the HEARTS and MINDS of men. If you so chose to limit yourself, by all means do. But you are selling yourself short. We are to do Greater things than Christ Himself.

Common misconception that the church has misled millions/billions on. Jesus told us that it was for that specific reason that He came to this planet. So that the Helper could come. Said it was most pertinent. NOT that he came to die for our sins. Yes HE did do that too. But He told us what the most important reason was. So that we could be in God and God could be in us. We are reunited in life not death. And if we have the mind of Christ/God/Holy Spirit, then yeah, it is possible to know all things. Think King Solomon was reincarnated over and over again? Wisest man that ever lived coined the phrase.."There is nothing new under the sun." He was in God and God was in him.

Wisdom and this information comes at a cost. Salvation is not free like the church teaches. Jesus said, "Pick up your cross and follow me." Struggles, challenges, obstacles, trials and tribulations on this earth, this plane of existence is where you learn. Adversity is the best teacher there is. The more the struggles, the more the clarity and understanding. We are reborn alive, not dead. And YES it is possible to learn it all in one life time. Christ and His disciples did. And we are heirs and joint heirs giving us the ability to cry ABBA, Father and boldly approach His throne. ASK. Ask Seek Knock. You have not because you ask not or you ask amiss.

I, for one, CANNOT be moved on this subject. People remembering "Past Lives" is merely knowing the mind of God. Being in the Source means the Source is in you. It is the same yesterday, today and forever. Akashic records, as Albert Einstein would have called them, are the universal records that time stores. Recording ALL LIFE everywhere in the universe. And we have the ability to tap into those records. Hence people remembering or knowing what the Source recorded. If we got many chances to get it right, then we would have no reason for a conscience cause sooner or later, you'd just get it right....I don't think so.

PhotonEffect

cloudwatcher

I would probably buy into a lot of what people say on here IF I had not personally died for 7 minutes and then remained in a coma on life support for a month and a half. I would say that kinda makes me more knowledgeable in the subject. All men are appointed ONCE to die. Not over and over again.

May I ask, had you experienced anything that you could remember while you were in a comatose state?

Yes you may and thank you for doing so. The answer is a big fat YES!!! I knew my brother, mother and father were there everyday. I smelled my fathers cologne. I knew I was a prisoner trapped in my brain and I also experienced some terrible terrible nightmares, if you will. I remember some of the nurses as well. One of them, I remember having a conversation with my mother. Her daughter had been in a car accident and she was in a hurry to get out of there. I was in ICU and getting out quickly was not an option, so my mother helped her. I remember symbolic dreams as well.

When I died, I left my body and was roaming the hospital where I seen my half sister, 5 of her kids and her mother walking in the main entrance to the hospital. I had not seen her in 15 years prior to that event. She has 7 kids all together, but only 5 came with her that night. They broke my ribs and sternum doing CPR on me on 2 separate occasions. The first I had no NDE or anything like it, but nonetheless, I died(had a heart attack on the operating table) and they had to do CPR for the first time. They don't show you in the movies that they have to break those bones to do CPR...lol maybe they don't have to in all cases, but in mine they sure did.

Ask away my friend...

Were you "yourself" while you were disembodied or were you just a point of perception, i.e. did you have thoughts and emotions or did you just observe things?

When you had a sense of moving around while disembodied, did you still notice an ambulatory motion? Did you float? Was your perspective at your normal bodily height or above/below that?

You sound like you went through an amazing amount of trauma. What's your current prognosis? Completely healed? Was there any brain damage? Were there any major personality changes after your experience?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

reply to post by cloudwatcher

Struggles, challenges, obstacles, trials and tribulations on this earth, this plane of existence is where you learn. Adversity is the best teacher there is. The more the struggles, the more the clarity and understanding. We are reborn alive, not dead. And YES it is possible to learn it all in one life time. Christ and His disciples did. And we are heirs and joint heirs giving us the ability to cry ABBA, Father and boldly approach His throne. ASK. Ask Seek Knock. You have not because you ask not or you ask amiss.

Wait.

I starred your post, but...
I think you are misunderstanding me entirely.

Yes, this 'plane of existence is where you learn.'
Yes, 'adversity is the best teacher, etc.'

Yes, we are reborn alive.

But......
hold on.
One lifetime? No. I disagree. Do you see how your statements in the quoted paragraph are 'cognitively dissonant'?

Your theory that "it can be done in one lifetime" in NO WAY erases the possiblity that Jesus (and other 'messengers') had chosen to come back; to help others.

I fear I've somehow offended you; for that, I'm sorry.

But....
sorry, I don't understand your point, maybe???

reply to post by cloudwatcher


Okay... well.
I see that I will have to review your posts to get caught up.

You were in a coma, I see!!! I've often wanted to interview coma-survivors to learn what they experienced.

In any case; I'll not delete or modify my earlier post (above). Just know that I am truly interested in hearing more.

Thanks for your patience.
~w

reply to post by wildtimes

Nah!!! I'm not offended. I can be a little sarcastic sometimes and it's hard to hear on a blog forum.
My point is that I personally do not believe in reincarnation. I don't believe that Christ was reincarnated from another lifetime. If it were a matter of choice, why didn't I come back as someone else? Why am I still me?

Yes, I had to make the decision to return to MY BODY and go back to Earth for my children's sake. And for me, the door was on the right side, not the left. My Spirit, My Body. I was in a place I did NOT want to leave. It wasn't until the man reminded me that I had a life, that I actually remembered that I did. There was no memory of anything in the light. Just bliss.

It was after my NDE that I began searching for understanding as to what was next. I had 2 separate experiences that contradicted all that I had been indoctrinated with as a human being. When Christ was on the cross, he told the thief that he would be with him in paradise that day when he died. Was it because he had the revelation that Jesus was the Christ? Was it personal? I don't think so. I was in that same paradise as a child and an adult.

The Mount of Transfiguration...some of his disciples were with him when low and behold, 2 of the patriarchs of the Old Testament appeared next to him. The disciples recognized them and wanted to build tents for them to stay in. They came back to Earth as themselves. Not someone new. How is it, you suppose, that they recognized dead people? They didn't have cameras to take pictures and many a moon had past. Jesus put on his glorified body. And poof, up into space they went. When he died on the cross, it states that graves opened up and all kinds of dead people were walking around. Their loved ones recognized them. They were those in Abrahams bosom. They didn't change into someone else. Neither did I.

If there is anything you wanna ask...go ahead. I will do my best to answer in a way that is not confusing. I am really good at talking in code and making a person think and figure out exactly what it is that I am saying. Why do I do this? I have no freaking clue.

reply to post by cloudwatcher


I find your story very interesting as well, in that your's is kind of proving what the books are getting at, in that "something" of you survives after death.

While I won't speak for wildtimes, for me, that also seems to "help" the cause of reincarnation as well. If you choose not to believe, that is ok, but very interesting to me, in lieu of everything you have written so far.

Do you question why they were able to bring you back? Why it wasn't your "time"? I would be interested in your answer.

Thank you for sharing your story!

reply to post by cloudwatcher


Your story is cool, too bad you don't remember other specifics of your NDE.

Just because you do not believe in reincarnation doesn't mean it's not an experience. Jesus did live more than once imo and he also was not recognized after the cross experience.

He was not recognized when he told his disciples he before Abraham I am.

There are countless other texts that prove reincarnation of the spirit.

All life is recycled. As above so below. It's the nature of all things.. to be reborn in a new season.