ADHD a fake disorder, neurologist-turned-author says

the5thdimension
reply to post by Toadmund

 

lol. Adhd is just a krutch for a person with a greater attention span that needs to be doing more things at once to satisfy their needs than an average person. You thinking you have adhd because you can't focus how to do something boring doesn't make you different than anyone else. Being "Adhd" just means you're a human with a faster/higher/more evolved consciousness. Try meditating. I was supposedly adhd. I took uppers, downers, I was prescribed everything to help me "cope" with everyone else and regular society. The # they put me on almost got me fired from my job, screwed my sleeping pattern way out of alignment, and killed my appetite, as well as make me lose an insane amount of weight. I started meditating. Eventually threw away all of my medication and never looked back. Even threw out smoking.

How is it that you can say you have a problem, when I have your same issue, and see it as a blessing and reason of higher perspective? Don't let the world dumb you down. You've got a higher purpose. Hold your existence to a higher plane, those meds won't do anything good for you.

Namaste.

I totally messed up my circadian rhythm as well. I've really struggled the past year because I can't fall asleep before 6-7am. Research made me think it might be delayed sleep phase disorder (which it basically is). More research made me think it might be due to the blue light from this iphone and artificial lighting in the house. I'm now 100% sure it's a combo of the blue light, addicted to this phone, and the damage caused by staying up all night on adderall way too much the past 10 years.

I'm finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. First step is knowing what to correct. 1:24am...I need to force myself to leave now. Good night!

reply to post by BanTv


I wish I had more methods of helping sleep that are natural but give some thought to diffusing oils, specifically lavender!

reply to post by BanTv


I used to love a little blue night lite in my house. But I also noticed that my sleep cycle was messed up after a while. Then I read this article and unplugged the night light to see how that would turn out.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Turns out that it actually helped me sleep better. Whodathunk!

Thankfully I was born before ADHD was invented as these days I would probably be a over-medicated zombie and know no different thinking that it is normal to pop pills.

But I do know I was hell on my parents and grandparents...and for that I always ask for forgiveness.

Perhaps teachers and parents have trouble handling a very active kid and they were looking for answers and treatment, God forbid.

I believe your statement had a lot to do with why this behavior was labeled a disease. Hey, if we can drug an unruly kid, and make them the perfect little learning zombie, let's do it.
This diagnosis has been a pet peeve of mine ever since they tried to label my son with it in school. Luckily, I had a thorough child therapist whom put him through all day testing.
Surprise Surprise
He didn't have it.

WilsonWilson
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

You seem to have made a jump from it not being a disease, to it being entirely made up, and the fault of parents.

It DOES say it's a collection of sypmtoms, not a disease, they are STILL symptoms, that families need help to manage.

I think you have the gist of it-

The way I understand it is as follows. ADHD is not a well defined entity or disease. But this does not mean the symptoms they are talking about are not real. What happened was, they cherry picked a bundle of symptoms and put a label on them 'ADD' and they then invented some drugs to suppress the symptoms and make money in the process. Later they realized they could add 'hyperactivity' to the collection of symptoms so they got ADHD and with this new label they could make even more money. So, ADHD, which is really only an artificial label for a collection of symptoms, that may be only arbitrairly related, becomes a 'disease'. When children 'get' this disease the get the symptoms 'of' it. Now ADHD is something that you get, it is a disease. All of this relies on a subtle play of words and concepts. It is just smoke and mirrors, an invented disease. The symptoms are real enough. Children are sometimes hyperactive, or lack attention, and these real symptoms have real causes. Nobody is disputing that. But children can be hyperactive for all kinds of reasons. There can be a lack of attention for all kinds of reasons.

But the magic of medical terminology leads people to believe that labels like ADD and ADHD are real entities 'with' symptoms. ADHD is something that you 'get'. This is not true. All that really exists are symptoms and causes and the causes can be myriad and can vary from person to person. To invent a 'disease' is to distract attention from the real problem and from real action in terms of helping people with these symptoms. But imaginary diseases make money and this is the real reason for the invention of ADHD.

I still see ADHD as a condition even if it is just a lot of smaller problems!

reply to post by mrFMPerson


The difference between those two things is that as a series of symptoms, you cannot (and shouldn't) be treating it with a blanket cure-all pill. This has been shown in this thread with all sorts of personal testimony saying that the pills don't work and can even make some people worse off.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


No, I tried that diet when I was young. It didn't help a damn bit. If your problems are caused by diet then you never had ADHD. ADHD is not something that develops in later life. It is an inheritable trait and you are born with it. No diet is going to magically go away. Exercise does help. (Although I believe all people should strive to eat well)

There is plenty of genetic evidence to show ADHD exists.
www.newscientist.com...
www.nature.com...

ADHD was likely a genetic mutation that has stuck around due to it being useful in some way. Studies of Nomadic groups show that some societies actually select for it. The problem is contextual. We live a society in which such traits are not valued and even seen as a liability, but you can still find it is selected for in various professions. Military, Police, and most first responder professions are full of people who have these traits. They are generally also over represented in the Arts.

Most people responding obviously don't have it and have never truly dealt with it. ADHD is the double edged sword. One of the prime examples of this is "Hyperfocus". It's something most people don't experience often. When you get into something and the entire world is gone. All other sense dull, just the thing you focus on exists. It gets so bad I forget to eat, drink, answer the phone etc. I will only stop when my bladder is ready to explode. Walt Disney became so engrossed in his work he didn't realize his house was burning down, his work almost killed him. People with ADHD go into this state easily, with very little effort unlike neurotypicals. As a person with ADHD, I generally am the first to notice when something changes, an unusual sound, a new person entering the room etc. I am also hypersensitive, I pick up on subtle clues quickly and when I am interested in something I learn it very quickly. If you get past the bad points and learn how to work with your brain it can help you.

What destroys people with ADHD is the boring, routine drudgery of life. There is an inner restlessness that can't be controlled. For some people medication is the only thing that helps. I work out. Working out is probably the best thing you can do even if you take meds. I find it is as good as medication for me. I do 30 minutes of cardio daily, lift weights 3 times a week and do 30 minutes of yoga per day.

I have accepted I will always do things differently. I clean my house, but to many people it will always be disorganized. Part of living with ADHD is acceptance. You have to accept what you are and learn how to make the best of it.

The main problem people with such disorders run into is they live in a world that is not suited to them. The world at large awards averageness. Average is good, the mean is good, the extremes are bad. Those without average minds are at a disadvantage.

As a medical practitioner, and someone with ADHD I'd like to weigh in. First some clarification for the laymen posting that seem to be struggling with the terms. ADD, and ADHD are the same thing. ADHD is the newer term. Children with ADHD become adults with ADHD. The hyperactivity usually wanes with maturity, behavioral control, and social pressures.

ADHD is absolutely real, however, very mis/over-diagnosed. A good litmus test was mentioned earlier. If Caffeine, nicoteine, ritalin, strattera etc... give you a "buzz" you do not have ADHD. If said stimulants relax you, and make you feel "normal. Youz prolly has youseff a case of teh ADDs.

If the diagnosis is bogus then why have genetic links been established? Yes it is hereditary. I have 4 kids, 3 of them have it to varying degrees. If it is fake why do true ADHD populations respond iatrogenically(opposite) to stimulants? IF it is fake then why is their a set, and reproducible test for it's diagnosis? People with ADHD demonstrate measurably different brain chemistry, and brain imaging. There is empirical data proving it's existence. Just because it is over diagnosed, and over medicated does not mean it does not exist.

I have no problem positing that this neurologist is full of it. I disagree with doctors all the time, and as many times as not I'm right. Initials behind a name do not grant one omniscience. I have it, I deal with it. I take Strattera occasionally for it. Mostly I have learned behavioral modification techniques like meditation, and relaxation to control it from within, and to recognize the cognitive effects, and have a higher sense of self to know what is required to get things done. I only use the medication during times of stress.

If you have ADHD no explanation is required, if you don't have it explanation is difficult. The newer theories about ADHD say that it is a result of vestigial programming. During our hunter/gatherer days it was beneficial to be hyper-alert, hyper-vigilant, and hyper-active. It helped us survive. Today we are soft, and lazy, and don't need the hyper program anymore. Most brains have slowed down with society, some have not, and that trait is passed down genetically.

A person with ADHD is a global thinker. We have no intrinsic heirarchical processor in our brain. The car driving past gets just as much processing power from our cerebral cortex as does what you are saying to us at the moment. And NO we can't "Just not do it." or "Pay more attention." on the physiological level. It isn't a choice or motivated by desire. It is hard wired that way. Although new studies suggest behavioral modification, and higher learning can slowly rewire the brain, and adults with well controlled ADHD start to show brain imaging more like that of a "normal" adult. For us the hierarchical processor has to be built from scratch, and by sheer will power of the ADHD person. What just comes natural to everyone else is an engineered process to someone with ADHD. We have to mentally shut out the car driving by consciously, and then consciously exert more processing power to the speaker speaking to us. Not an easy or quickly learned task, although practise makes it faster, and more automatic over time. A hierarchical processor is that part of mental scripting that says what is important, and needs to be thought about, and what is just "background noise" and can be ignored. It is built in or intrinsic in most people, but absent in varying degrees in ADHD.

A person with ADHD has a brain with Ferrari speed, Suzuki Samurai handling, and no brakes. If you have ADHD you have to learn how to put on the brakes. Sometimes medication is needed to slow things down long enough to learn to handle the speed at which you can process. Both the brakes, and handling can be conscioulsy fixed. The good news is that once you learn how to handle your Ferrari brain, and when, and how to put the brakes on, you are now in control of a brain that runs like a Ferrari!!! It is a simultaneous curse, and blessing that takes years to realize.

What happened was, they cherry picked a bundle of symptoms and put a label on them 'ADD' and they then invented some drugs to suppress the symptoms and make money in the process. Later they realized they could add 'hyperactivity' to the collection of symptoms so they got ADHD and with this new label they could make even more money. So, ADHD, which is really only an artificial label for a collection of symptoms, that may be only arbitrairly related, becomes a 'disease'.

Which is not the case at all. They gathered data on ADD and came up with the list of symptom sand issues. They didn't just invent them. That's your foil hat speaking for you.

For those who are afflicted with this, they experience pretty much all these symptoms. And in greater degrees than an average person, who yes, also often suffers in minor degrees to many of the symptoms of ADD just due to life and daily stress. But for someone with ADD, it's much worse. I can go down the list of ADD symptoms, and out of a scale of 10, rate probably 95% of them at 9 or so. Unless you suffer from it, I don't except you to understand.

reply to post by Binder


Let me put it this way, why pathologize that which has existed forever, and obviously kept going on, because it's of benefit to the species?

You either argue it's particular genetic types that are having difficult time with environmental toxicity, and therefore in need of something extra, else admit that it's mere variation which has it's own advantages, that are simply not appreciated/wanted by the system in place.

Nothing else makes sense.

So you have a different effect from stimulants, and what, exactly?

I just don't see how this legitimizes "ADHD" in any way whatsoever.

It means we are all a little different... so what?


Also, how many sodas a day were you allowed as a child? If we can slowly re-pattern the brain over the years, that seems to indicate we built this up with our diets over the first most important years.

Just think of it from an addicts perspective. They get their "fix" and go back to baseline. Over the years, more of a "hit" is needed to get their "fix".

So a junkie kid sucks down those sodas/energy drinks, and gets his high, then just enough to keep going, then always "ADHD", and now needs meds just to be "normal".

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Maybe if you look at how the drugs like riddlin and aderall affect people. A person without add/ ADHD would have a stimulant affect from these drugs and a person with the diagnosis would be normal and be able to focus and not stimulated. Can't make that up.

reply to post by antonia

There is plenty of medical evidence to show ADHD is genetic

This is a dodgy area. A person with gene X might have ADHD but that does not mean the gene causes it. It might be that some genetic dispositions are more susceptible to it but the cause may be elsewhere. Likewise with the 'alcoholic' gene. Is there a coc aine gene?

Hey KrazyShot thanks for this post. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was younger, and I always kind of felt it was just a label too hahaha. It's good to see people posting something that begins to uncover the lie that so many doctors spout out just so they can capitalize on a condition and make lots of money off expensive treatments, counseling etc...

I've always looked at those who may '' appear " to have ADHD as just simply this- individuals with different brain chemistry, where maybe they learn in a different way, shape or form than others.


For example- Some may be more visual learners who are very hands on and associate strong bonds towards short term memory and actually physically seeing or touching something. Whereas others are not visual at all, and can hack out the theoretical load in a university where the Professor articulates his methods to his students through that more conventional way of teaching


We're all unique, it's tragic that medical science has a quota with every condition, it's tragic human beings are not being treated holistically much anymore, but rather seen as a guinea pig in a lab, or just a stat

reply to post by webedoomed


Don't assume disparity where none exists. You probably have a pretty good handle on the "etiology" of the condition. Notice I never use the terms "pathology" or disease. I, like you, believe it is genetic variation, and comes with benefits as well as risks. I thought my post made that fairly clear.

There is a distinct possibility that the condition is exacerbated by toxins, and food additives in our modern world. As I child I was banned from caffeine, and soda because I was so hyperactive at baseline. However as a teen, and young adult I heavily self medicated with stimulants, and found them to have a calming effect. I can drink a caffeine laden coffee from starbucks, smoke a cigar, and go right to bed. My poor mother could have saved herself a lot of trouble if she had handed me a cola, and a video game, but she didn't. Instead she made me engage in productive endeavors to channel all the energy. ADD or ADHD was not a popular diagnosis when I was young. I was diagnosed as an adult. In retrospect her method was the best thing for "it" even if we had no idea what "it" was.

Just because ADHD may be a naturaly occuring abberation in humans, and at one time a positive, even adaptive iteration of our genome. In its more extreme cases it is maladaptive to modern life. Would you want someone driving a 2 ton vehicle at 70mph next to you, and your family while having a heavy episode of ADHD distraction? Looking everywhere, but at their driving situation? Would you want your banker to be fiddling with thier keychain, and staring at the birds out the window, and make eggregious errors on your mortgage paperwork? Or have your spouse, or significant other so hyperfocused on figuring out their new phone for the 5th week in a row to pay no attention at all to you trying to tell them your father just died?

I am advocating for self awareness, and behavioral adaptation to learn to control the negatives, and accentuate the positives. Medication should only be used when it is truly therapeutic, and not for convenience. Yes for an ADHD person it is a lot like another addiction. Their is a certain "high" associated with the hyper mental state, and a lot of people with ADHD don't want to give that up. It's also hard to be honest with one's self that the rapid fire decisions made in a hyper, and agitated state are usually not the best, and even destructive. A lot of ADHD people think they think "better" because they can think "faster." Not the case. The mental heuristics have to be solid first. then you can make good, fast decisions. If you are a poor decsion maker, and have ADHD you just make lots of bad decisions real fast. Conversely, if you are a good decision maker with ADHD you can make lots of good decisions real fast.

There is also a time to consciously slow down, and interact with your family, and loved ones at their speed. Life isn't just about you. Many ADHD people are brilliant. Hyper intelligence is a "symptom" for lack of a better term. They can be very successful professionally, but often fail, and are very unhappy in their personal lives. ADHD people are at a greater risk for suicide. So advocating that it doesn't exist, and that we should just do nothing, and just leave them alone is a dangerous, poor idea. As I said it is a blessing, and a curse at the same time. If the risks can be mitigated, and the benefits still realized, why in the world would anyone be against treatment? The problem is that diagnosis, and treatment have been hijacked by a system that likes to make money, and a hypochondriac society that wants a magic pill to fix everything. It takes a lot of work, and personal commitment to be a well adjusted person with ADHD. No quick or simple fixes, and no magic pills. That said if I could choose to be ADHD or not I would still choose to be. I think the benefits outweigh the risks when you realize what it is, and how to control your mind instead of letting your mind control you. I can't imagine thinking as slowly as most of my peers. That would be unnerving to me. ADHD in a nut shell is fast thinking, and no intrinsic or organic brain organization. If you can organize yourself as a learned trait, and learn good decision making skills you actually do have an advantage over average people, and maybe that does intimidate, and drive a bit of the "Let's treat this disease by making them zombies." mentality. However proper, and effective treatment by a specialist in ADHD (Which most of them personally have ADHD) has nothing to do with making chemical zombies. That is done out of convenience to the families, and lazy practitioners who don't know enough about it to properly treat it, but still want your money.

reply to post by Binder


Thanks for the well-formed, and detailed reply.

I think that about sums it up. People with "ADHD" have arbitrary brain organizations, with neural networks that fire at rapid rates.

It depends on how one chooses to shape their minds, in how they will end up over the span of their lives.

Thanks again.

S+1

reply to post by Krazysh0t


The fact that you were diagnosed but dont need stimulants is sufficient proof to conclude that ADHD is a conspiracy by the pharm companies? Ever consider that you were diagnosed incorrectly? Or that the symptoms vary a great deal and not everybody experiences it in the same way? Or how about the possibility that you grew out of it? NAHHHHHHH cant be. Lets post about it on the internet like its a proven fact. I would agree that ADHD is not a single disorder, but rather a number of disorders that manifest in similar ways. Regardless, if the symptoms include low attentiveness, impulsiveness, forgetfulness and restlessness (or any combination thereof) to the degree that it has a negative effect on their quality of life then the individual would benefit from stimulants which improve frontal lobe function (frontal lobe is responsible for impulse control, decision making, and focus). Call it whatever you want, but if it causes problems then its worth treating.

EnPassant
reply to post by antonia

 

Likewise with the 'alcoholic' gene. Is there a coc aine gene?

edit on 9-1-2014 by EnPassant because: (no reason given)

Yes, in fact they are the same gene. There is a genetic susceptibility to addiction to any substance among certain members of the population. This has been demonstrated in multiple studies and even mapped out. This why there is actually research toward a vaccine to turn it off. I don't think it's wise as such systems are holistic. No one can say what exactly happens when you shut that part of the genetic code off.

Not addressed to you and concerning the topic:

As for the main topic, I personally am always at odds with others who have ADHD because they feel they must label it a disability. Yes, sometimes it can be profoundly disabling, but at other times it gives you as distinct advantage over Neurotypicals. The fault truly lies in a society which doesn't value people if they are different. I have an eye that wanders on it's own. I can't tell you how much crap I've gotten for it all my life. And who's fault is that? Mine? No, I was born that way, yet I still get abused for it to this day, even in adulthood. That is just one example of how stupid society is. They don't care what benefit you could be to them, they just are frightened of the difference. You have to get over it. No matter what the problem is, no matter what the disability is, you have to keep trying.

If you have to take meds to try then that's fine. I know i probably should have, but my health just won't allow it. I probably wouldn't be some 30 something year old woman in college if I had taken meds, but I can't change that. No matter what the cost you have to go on. You've gotten this far. You are still here, keep going. Don't have a pity party, don't limit yourself. Just keep going until you get what you want

/sermon over, go live your life, fly your freak flag high.

reply to post by antonia


I seriously doubt there's an "alcoholic" gene. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Plenty of variation between how alcohol may affect an "alcoholic".

Some are angry drunks, some are lazy drunks, some are manic drunks such as myself.

I have absolutely no problem committing to sobriety for extended periods of time, if necessary.

Don't need to wake up with a drink, or have them daily... yet overall, I'm still a "drunk" by some's standards, due to the manic part, and making horrible decisions after a threshold is breached.

There could be more than a dozen different kind of "alcoholics" who use for many different reasons.

I'm sure you can find studies that find a gene in common, but that's really not saying much.

Binder
As a medical practitioner, and someone with ADHD I'd like to weigh in. First some clarification for the laymen posting that seem to be struggling with the terms. ADD, and ADHD are the same thing. ADHD is the newer term. Children with ADHD become adults with ADHD. The hyperactivity usually wanes with maturity, behavioral control, and social pressures.

ADHD is absolutely real, however, very mis/over-diagnosed. A good litmus test was mentioned earlier. If Caffeine, nicoteine, ritalin, strattera etc... give you a "buzz" you do not have ADHD. If said stimulants relax you, and make you feel "normal. Youz prolly has youseff a case of teh ADDs.

If the diagnosis is bogus then why have genetic links been established? Yes it is hereditary. I have 4 kids, 3 of them have it to varying degrees. If it is fake why do true ADHD populations respond iatrogenically(opposite) to stimulants? IF it is fake then why is their a set, and reproducible test for it's diagnosis? People with ADHD demonstrate measurably different brain chemistry, and brain imaging. There is empirical data proving it's existence. Just because it is over diagnosed, and over medicated does not mean it does not exist.

I have no problem positing that this neurologist is full of it. I disagree with doctors all the time, and as many times as not I'm right. Initials behind a name do not grant one omniscience. I have it, I deal with it. I take Strattera occasionally for it. Mostly I have learned behavioral modification techniques like meditation, and relaxation to control it from within, and to recognize the cognitive effects, and have a higher sense of self to know what is required to get things done. I only use the medication during times of stress.

If you have ADHD no explanation is required, if you don't have it explanation is difficult. The newer theories about ADHD say that it is a result of vestigial programming. During our hunter/gatherer days it was beneficial to be hyper-alert, hyper-vigilant, and hyper-active. It helped us survive. Today we are soft, and lazy, and don't need the hyper program anymore. Most brains have slowed down with society, some have not, and that trait is passed down genetically.

A person with ADHD is a global thinker. We have no intrinsic heirarchical processor in our brain. The car driving past gets just as much processing power from our cerebral cortex as does what you are saying to us at the moment. And NO we can't "Just not do it." or "Pay more attention." on the physiological level. It isn't a choice or motivated by desire. It is hard wired that way. Although new studies suggest behavioral modification, and higher learning can slowly rewire the brain, and adults with well controlled ADHD start to show brain imaging more like that of a "normal" adult. For us the hierarchical processor has to be built from scratch, and by sheer will power of the ADHD person. What just comes natural to everyone else is an engineered process to someone with ADHD. We have to mentally shut out the car driving by consciously, and then consciously exert more processing power to the speaker speaking to us. Not an easy or quickly learned task, although practise makes it faster, and more automatic over time. A hierarchical processor is that part of mental scripting that says what is important, and needs to be thought about, and what is just "background noise" and can be ignored. It is built in or intrinsic in most people, but absent in varying degrees in ADHD.

A person with ADHD has a brain with Ferrari speed, Suzuki Samurai handling, and no brakes. If you have ADHD you have to learn how to put on the brakes. Sometimes medication is needed to slow things down long enough to learn to handle the speed at which you can process. Both the brakes, and handling can be conscioulsy fixed. The good news is that once you learn how to handle your Ferrari brain, and when, and how to put the brakes on, you are now in control of a brain that runs like a Ferrari!!! It is a simultaneous curse, and blessing that takes years to realize.

Some of this I can Agree with but some I strongly disagree with you.

quote from www.ncld.org... ies/

"Technically, ADD is considered one of three subtypes of ADHD. The term ADD is still used by many parents and teachers, but since 1994, doctors have been calling it by its formal name: ADHD, Predominantly Inattentive Type. The other two subtypes are ADHD, Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type, and ADHD Combined Type, which involves both hyperactive-impulsive and inattentive symptoms."

This is how I have seen it first hand my entire life, and I grew up in the 90's so I knew the people on the different substances, my brother, myself, and my daughter have it, luckily neither myself nor my daughter need medication. This is how it works IMO, at the very least, it is how it works within my family.

If your brain was a television and chains of thought were channels:
My Brother who is ADD stays on one channel and watches it but doesn't really see whats going on, its like he is simply not processing what is right in front of him. He sits and stares and everyone wonders why he doesn't know what he is watching if he is staring at it. He gets lost in thought about one aspect of something.
My daughter is only 3 but I see in her the same thing that happens to me, ADHD. She keeps changing channels and watching everything at once and can tell you little bits of what is going on in each show, but as for knowing the details, they are gone.

When my brother was a child he would stare off into space when he was supposed to be doing something and completely lose track of time. He would just sit and stare and be so intent and focused on what ever it was that was making his gears turn.

I try to do one thing, like the dishes, realize that i need to wipe the counter first, wipe the counter off (halfway) before noticing the floor needs to be swept, then end up doing all of it in reverse order and not finishing the task that started it all in the first place. Now, With help from my husband it doesn't happen much anymore, but the fact of the matter is, it is real.

And the two are different. Actually there are 3 types, but I am unfamiliar with the 3rd.

My brother is in his twenties and still needs medication.