Growing up unvaccinated: This is what happens when your parents refuse

diggindirt
It used to be the standard for releasing/using vaccines because it was "proof" that the vaccine was effective.

Thank you for your honest and clarifying statement of fact.

FTR ... I have no problem with your other assertions. An error on the side of caution can be just that ... an error. These threads get carried away when they come up and there are people here who take words of caution as a dire warning. They are the unwashed masses. They are the ones who keep their children away from 'effective' programs of health.

That is neither fair to their children nor a benefit to society. It is a choice ... and I believe in choice. Choosing should be made from a rational position. I am a rational person and I have developed a rational position on this subject. It's now my position to convey a rational and balanced argument in this thread.

MysterX
...and not a pair of mealy mouthed, lazy suckers, like most, though perhaps not all, of the pro-vaccine idiots seem to be.

Appreciate the insult. You're my favourite breed of ATS member. Short, loud, insulting, rude and one sided.

MysterX
...are failing their children spectacularly. I feel sorry for your kids frankly, that they were unfortunate enough to be lumbered with such gullible, lazy parents.

Great, another insult.

MysterX
...I'll not debate this with anyone, it has proven fruitless over the years, so i'll not waste your time or mine.

Then why did you bother posting? Was it to act hard behind your keyboard?

I've noticed that alot of the anti-vaxers on this thread don't intend to discuss the subject matter as much as they want to bully those that oppose what they believe. What's the point?

I joined this forum to discuss topics. Not to insult, not to start heated arguements or to bully, simply to discuss. It's a shame there are members such as the one above trying to spoil it for everyone else.

Here's a source standing up for what I believe; Why Immunize Your Ch...

Snarl

diggindirt
It used to be the standard for releasing/using vaccines because it was "proof" that the vaccine was effective.

Thank you for your honest and clarifying statement of fact.

FTR ... I have no problem with your other assertions. An error on the side of caution can be just that ... an error. These threads get carried away when they come up and there are people here who take words of caution as a dire warning. They are the unwashed masses. They are the ones who keep their children away from 'effective' programs of health.

That is neither fair to their children nor a benefit to society. It is a choice ... and I believe in choice. Choosing should be made from a rational position. I am a rational person and I have developed a rational position on this subject. It's now my position to convey a rational and balanced argument in this thread.

But wait, you didn't answer my question. So I will repeat it.

How are vaccines and prescription drugs vastly different and what led you to believe that I would "know that"????

Honestly, I don't have such a dim view of my fellow citizens and ATS denizens as you seem to hold.
If someone can benefit from my experiences and what I've learned from them, I hope they will take it and share. If some think I'm a radical, tinfoil hat-wearing, hippie-freak, libertarian fringe element---that's okay too.

KillaCommie4Mommy
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Here you go again blatantly lying and construing facts to suit your agenda. I would definitely say you have some vested interest in protecting big pharma... (lobbyist, propagandist, etc). I have noticed the lack of facts backing up everything you throw out there as the truth, however you seem to lack the intelligence to be skeptical of the coverup story, something that is supposed to be inherent with being a member to this site. I have yet to research your posts but I have faith that they will all reflect on who you really are. So here you go. Discredit these links (some of the hundreds that come up with a minor search).
1) Czech republic tests vaccine samples, not "viral materials"
www.lifegen.de...

The first paragraph in that link states that the vaccines were made from the contaminated samples sent from Baxter.
What part of that did you not read?

KillaCommie4Mommy
2)Update of Moshe story with current lawsuits against Baxter for crimes against humanity.. you say arrested for speaking out against the country, yes I see how illegal that is and merits sending a spec ops team to arrest him though on his radio no threats were made other than going public with his information
www.unfictional.com...

Once again, that Joseph Moshe in that story is not the retired virologist.
2+2 does not = potato.
www.agri.gov.il...

KillaCommie4Mommy
3)Just to show I am unbiased here's a bloomberg whitewash
www.bloomberg.com...
www.examiner.com...

The first link reinforces the FACT that samples of bird flu were sent, not vaccines.
The second cites naturalnews so can be immediately dismissed.

KillaCommie4Mommy
Lets not forget that this is the same company that infected thousands of people in 1996 with HIV from their blood products. If all you are going to say is that guy never worked for Baxter and all you can quote is some no name conspiracy discrediting site, you sir are discredited. Do you really believe that a international billion dollar company like Baxter wouldn't throw millions of dollars suppressing this story? (You most likely are the benefactor of some of those allocated funds)
DO you really think he was attacked with weapons never used before on the streets of LA for speaking against this country? OH ya Baxter said "we don't know that guy he's never worked for us" and you believe them eh? Just sheer luck he knew precisely where the tainted vax samples came from?
I'm done with you, sit down.

I think the fact that you choose to throw personal insults and accusations at me straight away proves your limited debating skills. I would also add limited reading and comprehension skills to that too.
I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how vaccines are "based upon mercury" too.

TheConstruKctionofLight
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Do you walk outside? Whilst you do this do you breathe?
Do you eat fruit and vegetables?
Have you ever had a scratch or cut in your skin? Ever eaten fish? Ever used aluminium foil?
Ever heated anything up in a metal pan? Have you ever been bitten or stung by an insect? Do you like to eat nuts? Ever taken aspirin for a headache? If the answer to any of the above is yes then you have just been exposed to far more danger than any vaccines.

"any of the above is yes??"


WOW hehehehe......so vaccines are safer than cooking on a pan?

or safer than taking aspirin....(single ingredient salysilic acid as opposed to cocktail vaccines)

You sound like a Pharma funndie...brainwashed to the point of incoherence

Yes, vaccines are far safer than cooking food in a pan.
Far more people get injured from using a stove than by vaccines.

Safer than aspirin too as far more people have anaphylactic reactions to aspirin than vaccines (myself included).

So why are you laughing, mate?

TheConstruKctionofLight
reply to post by Pardon?

 

they don't contain and have never contained mercury (thimerosal is not mercury the same way that sodium chloride is not chlorine)

so thimesoral is not mercury?


from www.cdc.gov...

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's


So are you going to inject into your arm chlorine, sodium or salt.. i mean using your logic maybe salt is safe to inject.....

Look, if you're trying to be clever at least try to be clever.
What, other than water is in an isotonic saline solution?
Yes, that's right, NaCl, salt.
Would you inject water containing pure sodium?
Would you inject water with pure chlorine?
No.

Thimerosal or to give it its proper name is Ethyl(2-mercaptobenzoato-(2-)-O,S) mercurate(1-) sodium is a molecule containing several different elements, one of them being mercury.
This isn't mercury in it's famous metallic elemental form, nor even the inorganic mercury found in fish but it is an organic mercury.
Being an organic mercury compound it is treated differently by the body that the elemental or inorganic versions and is excreted from the body quite readily which means it doesn't accumulate.
Currently thimerosal is only found in the nasal flu vaccine as it's been phased out from vaccines for over a decade.

TheConstruKctionofLight

I have had the flu shot to make sure I can not kill one of the people I look after.

reply to post by boymonkey74

 

So the flu shots make the flu disappear from the air around you as well.... thereby saving pateints....?
Do they pump it into the Hospital HVAC....hmmmm
because I though thats how we catch disease? haha

Hang on....


for an in depth study of how the fraudulent Pasteurs germ theory became the "official" party line do some study

www.whale.to...


"I cannot kill one of the people I look after"...pretty emotive...but then again


Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Killing 225,000 People Every Year
articles.mercola.com...

The levels of ignorance surrounding the vaccine scandal is..well, it's shocking. Absolutely bloody outrageous.

It is quite well known to anyone paying even slight attention, that 80% - 90% of all 'flu' is NOT influenza...i'll repeat that for the slow, vaccine damaged among you...the huge majority of presented cases of 'flu' is NOT as a result of influenza infection. And this makes the annual 'flu shot' about as useful to the public as a chocolate teapot...very nice earner for the 'flu shot' pushers though, and usually will trim down the population numbers a little at the same time.

Look it up, educate yourselves.

Here's a personal example happening to my family right now as i type this;

My Mother is getting on and recently had the 'flu shot'...she is now VERY ill...has severe symptoms, had to call the doctor out to her home as she was too ill to go out. Couldn't breathe properly, had to take short shallow panting breaths to get any air, has aches, pains, severe cough, fever...your basic Influenza symptoms...in her own words..."I really didn't think i was going to make it Son, i honestly though it was going to bloody finish me off! I still feel terrible, but i think i'm out of the woods now.."

My Dad on the other hand, did NOT have the crap pumped into him...and guess what? No symptoms..no illness, nothing at all.

My Wife's Mother also suckered by the propaganda, decided to get stuck with Christ knows what sold as a flu shot, and again, she is gravely ill...SAME symptoms as my Mother (they live 100s of miles apart btw) her Husband, like my Dad, didn't have the shot and again, isn't ill.

My Sister, being an artheritis sufferer, had the flu shot...and is currently IN THE HOSPITAL, ON AN I.V., O2 so she can breathe, waiting to have her lungs DRAINED, whereas her partner, her young Son who...yes, you guessed it did NOT have the flu shot, are completely fine, no symptoms at all...and these are all people living on top of one another, in the same household.

There is a glaringly obvious common denominator here...everyone who has had the bloody, effing flu shot are very ill, everyone who had not had it are absolutely fine.

What will it take for people to wake up?

reply to post by angryhulk


The reason i posted is the same reason you posted pal. To put across my point of view, you don't like that move along yeah?

My experience is faithfully written as i know it to be, if yours differs fine. We all make our decisions based on experience and knowledge gained, and of course that experience and knowledge is going to be different for different people.

I wasn't insulting any member or any individual in particular, rather putting across in words my suffocating sense of RAGE and utter contempt for this scandal and the way the population blindly go along with what the crooked bastards dictate without the slightest question...if you imagine everything is rose coloured and perfectly above board, get on with it, that's your perogative.

My family are currently very ill due to vaccines, everyone who has had a flu shot this year are either more ill than they have EVER been, with one currently in a hospital bed waiting for lung surgery after getting gravely ill after having the filth pumped into her arm!

But no mate...you carry on, they're professionals with nice, clean white coats and everything.

Every nurse my sister has spoken to in hospital have told her they would NEVER get a flu shot, even if their job demanded they did, they'd rather be on the frigging dole than take one.

And they live the medical world every day of their working lives...the reason i won't debate this is self evident...people are too brainwashed to listen, even when the professionals themselves wouldn't touch the crap with barge pole, they'll still argue the toss...life is too bloody short to argue for the sakeof it in my book, so i won't bother to anymore.

Funny how the Amish people never vaccinate their kids and they never get the childhood diseases our kids get!

And very rarely any of the cancers that our population gets.

reply to post by MysterX


If we're just going with anecdotes I might as well add mine. I work in a pharmacy. This year we have done about 300 flu shots. Of those 300 I know of one person who got sick after receiving the flu shot and they said that it was due to the fact they were getting sick when they received the vaccine. Of those 300 not a one has come in with a Tamiflu prescription despite the fact that my area has been one of the hardest hit by the flu this year.

Now let me also discuss your comment about the nurses. I will preface this by saying I have the utmost respect for all nurses for putting up with their patients and I know a great many who are good at their job. That said I know at least just as many who seem to have no idea what their doing especially when it comes to medication. Now on the other hand every pharmacist (those people have a PhD in knowing how drugs are made and how they work) I know has received a flu shot this year. None of them have had the flu and none of them got sick afterward.

So since anecdotes are seemingly being used as proof in this thread, and since my sample size is larger, does that mean I'm right?

for all those that.....DO.....believe in vaccines....why would you care what these other people do.....warn the once, and let nature take it's course.

DJW001
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

There is a tipping point with vaccines. If enough people refuse to be vaccinated, diseases now thought to be rare or extinct will come roaring back. Don't let some idiot tell you that polio isn't bad.

Of course polio is bad. And before you think I'm one of these anti-vaccination crusaders, I'll point out that I'm not. However I think I kind of understand where they're coming from. And I've got an i dea. It's a really crazy, wild, off-the-wall idea, but I think it just might work:


How about the government starts "giving it to us straight." In other words, tells us the truth about some stuff, that we've been lied to about, for quite some time. That, and especially why doesn't the government finally take a good long collective look in the mirror, get their crap together, and start enacting (and repealing) laws in such a way that protects the little people e.g., the citizen, and at the same time does NOT protect, and coddle the megacorp and the billionaire, at the expense of the "little people" aka "the individual, middle-class citizen."


It's really easy to speculate that the government is "up to something" or even "up to no good" when we've been lied to so often, for so long. It is even easier to speculate this when we have seen them, continually, over the course of years, and decades (my entire 30+ year life span so far) lie and make excuses, and set up the law so that the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. In other words, stack the deck and rig the system in favor of the "haves" and disfavoring the "have nots."


IMHO if the government actually proved, by their actions that they had the "little guy's" best interest in mind, and weren't secretly pulling all the strings to help out their wealthy cronies, I can almost guarantee you, 75% of conspiracy speculation would die out.


As it stands, looking at current events, and history, and the government's track record, people have REASON to believe that the government would sell them out, and screw them over, just to help some jerk at the top get a little bit richer.


Stop giving people good reason to believe in a skewed, unfair, dishonest, corrupt system, and perhaps they'll stop seeing it that way.


Funny idea, right?




tl;dr


You know that one friend, or acquaintance who has lied or told tall tales, or exaggerated so many times that you have difficulty believing what they say, no matter how plausible?

Yeah, that's pretty much the government.

And the media.

And even science, to a degree. Too many scientists "bought off" with funding by the government, or special interest groups, creating a situation where a "scientist" has incentive to come up with results that promote a particular view. Especially with health-related subjects. There's too much money to be made in that area, for true scientific objectivity.


We really need to overhaul our entire (governmental, media, economic, scientific) system, if we want to make any true progress, as a species.

Here's the way I look at it. My babies were not vaccinated. I waited till they were a year plus to start them. Then they were staggered over the course of a year. The first year of their life there is minimal contact with folks outside the immediate fam. If Uncle Joe had whooping cough we wouldn't visit Uncle Joe. Simple.

Newborns are not equipped to handle half their body weight in vaccinations the first 5 days of life. I am willing to bet that a majority of the MMR/Autism debate stems from newborn vaccination. My kids are ok, gods willing.

reply to post by Grimpachi


The woman in the photo looks suspicious and just a tad seedy. I dont trust that she contracted all that unless she was injected with them.

As for the photo of the baby with chicken pox, LOL. Poor baby but it looks more like infantigo infected chicken pox or something because all of us kids got chicken pox as children and we had a few spots, small here and there and nothing like that propaganda picture shows. Miserable yes, itchy you bet, but liveable and over soon. We also suffered from the Mumps, the worst part of that was being severely laughed at for the swollen jaw area. We really did laugh our way through mumps.

reply to post by Snarl

... any CT worth his salt worries about that.

AHHHHHHH, HAAAAAAA !

Actually you fielded that very well IMO. I was just doing my Bill Murry.
I don't doubt that everything you are saying is true.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


300 people going out into the community to spread the illness. Good money for the big pharma.

reply to post by antar


Let's ignore the fact that other than Flumist the flu vaccine uses a dead virus and cannot be spread. Instead, let's focus on the fact that you agreed that vaccines prevent the recipient from contracting the illness. So you agree that vaccines work?

BlastedCaddy
Here's the way I look at it. My babies were not vaccinated. I waited till they were a year plus to start them. Then they were staggered over the course of a year. The first year of their life there is minimal contact with folks outside the immediate fam. If Uncle Joe had whooping cough we wouldn't visit Uncle Joe. Simple.

Newborns are not equipped to handle half their body weight in vaccinations the first 5 days of life. I am willing to bet that a majority of the MMR/Autism debate stems from newborn vaccination. My kids are ok, gods willing.

edit on 4-1-2014 by BlastedCaddy because: 1st amendment right

Exactly, we spread ours out for our son. We felt that if there is a link between vaccines and autism, it is more like due to provoking too much immune response too soon or too often over anything in the vaccines, themselves. Your immune system can be just as dangerous to you in the wrong circumstances.

Sure would like to see her post her medical records along with all these claims rather than expecting us all to simply believe her word. How do we know she really had all those illnesses and this isn't just another propoganda piece by Big Pharma? She seems to know a lot of sick people, probably a bit more than the average Joe, I would assume. I've never met anyone with all those diseases, yet she experienced them all and she knows countless others. Okay then.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I call BS... My mother never had me vaccinated, and I am rarely ever sick... Funny, that this 'article' has included just about every health practice that the 'authority' does their best to stamp out.