Is the bible the divine word of god?

zedy63
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

I've heard of the possibility that the bible has been changed or rewritten over the years i don't know if its true or not but the idea has been planted in my head now

It is common knowledge that the books that make up the bible were re writte and mistranslated many times. Even before the romans compiled these books to make the first versions of the bible. There are much older stories from several different cultures which some of the more known stories were derived. Read ( Enkis tablets, epic of gilgamesh, baghavad gita, enuma elish, the illiad, and more. )

Back then, they didnt have the forsight to know that one day we would be able to see all of these stories placed out in front of us to be compared against each other.

reply to post by Woodcarver

thanks i will read them

adjensen
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

You recognize that there is no scriptural support for Jesus condoning "the horrible murders, rapes, slavery, and sacrifices attributed to god", and no scriptural support for him having written the Old Testament, so what's your point? Do you think that Jesus condoned those activities, even though there is absolutely nothing that says that he did, and his specific words, such as "love your neighbour as yourself," say the opposite?

Again... What im asking, is if jesus and god are the same entity then, couldnt the old testament be attributed to jesus?

reply to post by Woodcarver

Thanks seabag. I couldnt agree more. But i am trying to understand the other side of the coin. Those who do believe. And how they rationalise the words to fit their specific denomination.

The majority of the current biblical canon is accepted by Christians and all believe the bible was inspired by God. The rift lies in the inclusion of other teachings more than simply an interpretation disagreement. If you read up on the gnostic gospels and the protestant reformation you’ll see where the conflicts arose. There are many contradicting yet related stories from one gospel to another. One group of Christians decided which gospels held weight and which ones where not to be read. Other Christians wanted to include all of the gospels or a different number of gospels.

The bible isn’t specific about all situations but more of a basic guideline for life IMO, so I can see how people will come to different conclusions. People rationalize…that’s our nature.

Just my $.02

godlover25
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

I believe every word of Holy Scripture to be truly Inspired by God,

I believe Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God,

I believe the Son of God is the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity,

I believe the Son of God condones everything the Father does as well as the Father condoning what the Son does, I believe Jesus was very explicit in establishing this,

and the Old Testament God is the same God of the New Testament, Jesus is the LORD of Old, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Jesus Is, I AM!

I believe you should seek and search for Truth, pray to God, ask Him to reveal Himself to you and give you knowledge and wisdom, understanding, truth and faith,

Don't give up and don't stop looking into the BIble because a few people who don't understand try and ruin it for you,

I repeat, do NOT give up!

Search and seek!

The Truth WILL set you free!

God bless

Hi godlover.

I have seen you in the forums and i know that you believe every word you just said. Thank you for participating. And thank you for your wishes of good will. Merry christmas to you.

You answered my post eloquently, so i know that you have no prob attributing the old testament to jesus and vice versa.

May i ask what denomination you practice?
And if you believe the old testament commandments to the jewish are still relevant to modern christins?

reply to post by Woodcarver

Again... What im asking, is if jesus and god are the same entity then, couldnt the old testament be attributed to jesus?

You already agreed that he didn't write it, so how could it be attributed to him?

Again, I'm trying to understand what your point is -- are you being critical of Biblical literalists, or are you trying to understand them? Your inflammatory statement that "Jesus condones horrible rape, etc" would seem to indicate that you are simply being critical, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Here's your problem -- the number of people who believe that the Bible, as it stands today, is the literal word of God, is very small. Even most Fundamentalists would agree that we no longer have exact copies of what the Bible originally was (though the differences are not significant, theologically,) so the whole "God wrote the King James version of the Bible" argument is a fallacious one. The other problem is that, even for those who attribute to God the behaviours that you decry, there is a theological basis for it, and they have a reasonable argument to present.

Unfortunately, the best ATS members who espouse that view and could defend it are no longer frequent posters and are unlikely to come into your thread to contribute their views, so if your intent is to understand, rather than criticize, I would suggest that you look up a local pastor and go talk to them. They're surprisingly willing to talk about their faith.

Merry Christmas!

seabag
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

Thanks seabag. I couldnt agree more. But i am trying to understand the other side of the coin. Those who do believe. And how they rationalise the words to fit their specific denomination.

The majority of the current biblical canon is accepted by Christians and all believe the bible was inspired by God. The rift lies in the inclusion of other teachings more than simply an interpretation disagreement. If you read up on the gnostic gospels and the protestant reformation you’ll see where the conflicts arose. There are many contradicting yet related stories from one gospel to another. One group of Christians decided which gospels held weight and which ones where not to be read. Other Christians wanted to include all of the gospels or a different number of gospels.

The bible isn’t specific about all situations but more of a basic guideline for life IMO, so I can see how people will come to different conclusions. People rationalize…that’s our nature.

Just my $.02

I am well read in many theologies, and again i agree with you.

Why do you think some cannot see that they are merely rationalising? Is it merely indoctronation? ( which i think is most likely) Or just a lack of the ability or motivation to look further into the thousands of other systems?( the mere number of dif denominations is what led me to be skeptical at a young age. I never believed in god and was never pushed in that direction luckily)

reply to post by Woodcarver

Who here thinks that every word in the bible is the divinely inspired words of god? Old and new testament.

The words are divinely inspired from the human mind, the imagination. However this does not require a god as it is portrayed in christian biblical texts. Sumerians believed in an anthropomorphic polytheism or the belief in many gods in human form and what was written about them could also be considered divinely inspired. It all depends on the context any one person adheres to or willingly accepts as the truth.

Do you think god and jesus are one and the same? If so then does jesus condone the horrible murders, rapes, slavery, and sacrifices attributed to god in the old testament?

Again the OT was still mixed with the Summerian adaptations which is why there is a contrast of angry gods and later in the NT a more mellow narrative focusing on just a few main characters.

Do you think the hundreds of commandments given to the jewish people in the old testament are still relevant to modern christians?

Not really. In the Twenty-first century the current western ideologies are very alien to what was expected by the people in the OT.

If you dont believe that every word in the bible is divine revelation, Then how can you tell which words are divine, and which are to be seen as metaphor, or symbolic?

The metaphors and symbolism contribute to the considered divinely inspired texts.

Are you allowed to interpret that for yourself?

There has been a rich history of interpretation of what is written in the christian bible, and for a variety of reasons both good and bad. It is allowed because that is the freedom of consciousness.

How do you rationalise all the inconsistancies?

There are many well documented evidences of tampering with the words with many reasons for doing so such as to change the context of meaning or to rid of particular passages altogether. Currently there are many modern bibles which differ in many key aspects with attempts to 'correct and clarify' various meanings. And in doing so have made corruption of the original presentation.
Together with the many language translations over the centuries things have tended to fall out of place or misunderstood.

reply to post by Woodcarver

Again... What im asking, is if jesus and god are the same entity then, couldnt the old testament be attributed to jesus?

They’re not the same entity…

Are you confused about the Holy Trinity?

There is God the Father, God the Son(Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit (either).

Jesus and God are two distinct people.

Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by Woodcarver

I am well read in many theologies, and again i agree with you.

Why do you think some cannot see that they are merely rationalising? Is it merely indoctronation? ( which i think is most likely) Or just a lack of the ability or motivation to look further into the thousands of other systems?( the mere number of dif denominations is what led me to be skeptical at a young age. I never believed in god and was never pushed in that direction luckily)

Most people are born into a religion. At some point we question what we've been told and seek answers for ourselves. It isn’t until we each seek our own spiritual answers (typically a little later in life but not always) until we each individually form a solid belief system. Typically that belief will be shared by many and you will find your place within one of the world’s religions.

What makes you think most people don’t understand they are rationalizing? There is a reason we use the word “faith” rather than “fact”. No religion can provide 100% certainty that their word is divine or absolute. We all rationalize.

adjensen
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

Again... What im asking, is if jesus and god are the same entity then, couldnt the old testament be attributed to jesus?

You already agreed that he didn't write it, so how could it be attributed to him?

Again, I'm trying to understand what your point is -- are you being critical of Biblical literalists, or are you trying to understand them? Your inflammatory statement that "Jesus condones horrible rape, etc" would seem to indicate that you are simply being critical, but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Here's your problem -- the number of people who believe that the Bible, as it stands today, is the literal word of God, is very small. Even most Fundamentalists would agree that we no longer have exact copies of what the Bible originally was (though the differences are not significant, theologically,) so the whole "God wrote the King James version of the Bible" argument is a fallacious one. The other problem is that, even for those who attribute to God the behaviours that you decry, there is a theological basis for it, and they have a reasonable argument to present.

Unfortunately, the best ATS members who espouse that view and could defend it are no longer frequent posters and are unlikely to come into your thread to contribute their views, so if your intent is to understand, rather than criticize, I would suggest that you look up a local pastor and go talk to them. They're surprisingly willing to talk about their faith.

Merry Christmas!

Again.... You are missing the point. I do not believe in jesus or god. But there are people who do.

Look at the post by god lover. He/she does attribute the old testament to jesus because they do not differentiate between the two. Most christians do not differentiate the two. I am not a christian. But i am trying to understand the other side and how one comes to these beliefs.

The previous post should have been much longer and well written and thought out. For some reason the rest of my reply did not post. And I cant remember what I wrote. That BLEEPS me off.

reply to post by seabag


So im assuming you are a christian? If so what denomination do you ascribe to? If any? And why?

reply to post by Tindalos2013


Try doing a reload/backpage and retrieve what you wrote...sometimes you can c/p what got truncated and put it in a new 'post' (just say "continued from previous post"). This happens sometimes, I'm not sure why.

reply to post by Woodcarver

Who here thinks that every word in the bible is the divinely inspired words of god? Old and new testament.

I don't, but it appears that you are only inquiring of the people who do.

That said, I'm an "Agnostic Deist" - as in: I don't know if there's a 'God', but I'm inclined to think that there is an "Overforce" (heh, just made that up) that is emanated in everything we 'see' in the Universe.

I think science is letting go of "strict materialism" and is recognizing that the "paranormal" is just as bona fide as any 'theory.'

From the time I was a little girl reciting the Nicene Creed, I had problems believing it...
eventually I left the Episcopal church - because I just couldn't wrap my head around the 'I believes'. I didn't, and still don't, 'believe' the creed.

Nevertheless, I think it's possible that IF there was actually a Jesus, AND he actually recuperated from his dismal demise, it might well have been "mind over matter" as the Ancients and Gurus tell us.

But, no. I don't think the Bible is anything more than Men's ideas of things they didn't understand. Kind of like the "King Arthur" legends. The stories are just too similar across the known history of our current status as "civilization."

Anyway, back to the corner to read.

Wishing all of ATS the best of the season,
~wild

seabag
reply to post by Woodcarver

 

Again... What im asking, is if jesus and god are the same entity then, couldnt the old testament be attributed to jesus?

They’re not the same entity…

Are you confused about the Holy Trinity?

There is God the Father, God the Son(Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit (either).

Jesus and God are two distinct people.

Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

www.biblegateway.com...

I do understand the belief of a holy trinity and how they are separate but the same, but how that is anything but confusing is beyond me. I think the whole trinity idea came to be the explanation for genesis' statements of "let us make man in our image and likeness" which comes from the early sumerian concept of the living gods making man from earlier forms of homonid.

reply to post by Woodcarver

But i am trying to understand the other side and how one comes to these beliefs.

Again, your best bet is to talk to a Fundamentalist pastor about it, because the argument is a theological one, not a simple matter of belief (well, what you're looking for is the theological answer, I presume.) I suspect that most literalists take that position as a belief, not because they have logically come to that conclusion through the study of theology.

Dust off your phone book, look up the local Baptist or Fundamentalist non-denominational church and offer to take the pastor out for coffee to answer your questions.

Woodcarver
reply to post by seabag

 

So im assuming you are a christian? If so what denomination do you ascribe to? If any? And why?

It’s irrelevant but I am currently a non-denominational Christian.

I no longer ascribe to the beliefs of any particular denomination because my personal search for answers is incomplete. I’m not much of a conformist and I’m not good at the sheeple role either! My relationship with God is a personal one.

If the Bible is the divine word of God, one might suppose that it could have been written better and with more valuable insight.

@Woodcarver --- ''if jesus and god are the same entity then, couldnt the old testament be attributed to jesus?'' __________________________________________ Jesus and God are not the same entity. Jesus makes it clear in his teachings and he never claimed to be God.

reply to post by Woodcarver


Depends what your interpretation of Di and vine are.
di-
A prefix that means "two," "twice," or "double." It is used commonly in chemistry, as in dioxide, a compound having two oxygen atoms.

vine:
a : a plant whose stem requires support and which climbs by tendrils or twining or creeps along the ground;


Consider all you college de-(greed) and successful in this New World System ensnared permanently.
In order to see the gods and not be manipulated by them you must be one or at least think like one.
DE- DE
abbreviation for
(Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (formerly in Britain) Department of Employment
de- de1, De before a vowel, d', D' [də]
of; from: occurring as part of some personal names and originally indicating place of origin

greed- greed (grd)
n.
An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth:
1. excessive consumption of or desire for food; gluttony
2. excessive desire, as for wealth or power.



Well of course you think I'm an idiot and crazy.