Counter Intelligence

My point is simple. In MKULTRA for example any other nation no citizen would never be allowed to even know this. Just because America tries to have a free press is the only reason this would be discussed at any length. Americas freedoms deliver the darkest aspects of subversive espionage that every other country hides-with the penalty of death for exposing it.
One would expect a paranoid theme from a site like ATS and some of it is warranted. However continuously going back in time and criticizing every single intelligence operator and grouping them all together with some of the more blatant abuses of power is not fair. So, by your estimation, every single CIA operative and FBI agent is guilty of being involved in every single murderous, manipulative and wealth seeking plan ever hatched.

It's just not like that.

What were some of the punishments that occurred for the individuals involved with that? Last I checked, some of them received awards and medals, living out their days in rather comfortable lifestyles. How is awarding the proponents of what was largely viewed as grossly unethical reigning anything in?

Just where in the world do you get brainless accusations like this? Show me evidence that any of this has occurred. You can't because it matters none about the validity of these charges against Americans because the fuel for your paranoia needs no accuracy-just an audience.

The never ending theme here that every single persons is guilty of trying to 'control your freedom' or 'taking away your rights' while never considering (because you don't know, or don't care or both) all the people that have given their life for your freedom.

Just head on down to the local graveyard, find a dead solder's grave, and spit on it because you could care less about America's solders, agents or operators.

They are all out to get you.

reply to post by spooky24


Don't make assumptions about me and thank you for the ad hominems. Resorting to such things, at least to me, means that you're floundering.

It is my opinion that a significant portion of those working in our intelligence agencies are most likely good people with the nation's best interest at heart. In fact, my son has had it suggested to him to go in such a field and I wholeheartedly support him on that because he is a good kid and exactly the type of person that I would like to see in such a field. However, I'm also a bit of a pragmatist and a realist. I sincerely doubt that those are the kind of people that would be put in positions where they would have to do some dirty work. Moral ambiguity for those kind of jobs.

Where did I get such an idea? Well, let's take a look at Sydney Gottlieb, shall we? Sydney Gottlieb was the head of Project MK-ULTRA.

The C.I.A. awarded Mr. Gottlieb the Distinguished Intelligence Medal and deliberately destroyed most of the MKUltra records in 1973. NY Times

So he was awarded a Distinguished Intelligence Medal which was not stripped from him after the Church Committee Report. He also suffered no jail time whatsoever.

Gottlieb's life after the CIA resembled a quest for atonement. With his wife Margaret, he spent 18 months in India running a leper hospital. He then moved back to rural Virginia, where he indulged two longstanding hobbies, folk dancing and goat herding. He devoted his final years to work in a hospice, looking after the dying. The Independent

So here we have a man who headed one of the most infamous and disturbing projects within our country's history. I've read the Church Committee Report on MK-ULTRA and what I read was disturbing. Did you know that, under the MK-ULTRA umbrella, they were experimenting with amnesia drugs on dying cancer patients in hospice? I find that a pretty morally repugnant thing to do with the last few weeks/months of a person's life.

I care very deeply for our soldiers and quite potentially more than you. My grandfather was a former NAF Chief of Staff and a former atomic veteran. I have no blinders on my eyes at all for what our government can do in its pursuit of science, including the deliberate exposure of our troops to radiation in operations such as Crossroads or Upshot-Knothole where the government ignored the issues for about 40 years until they passed the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act in 1990. Do you know how many of those exposed vets died feeling like guinea pigs before they decided to acknowledge it? Let's talk about Edgewood, shall we? I'm not the one who denied them the ability to have any sort of recourse when it turns out that they were experimented upon without their consent (United States v. Stanley, 483 U.S. 669). Stanley didn't have any sort of recompense until 1996. 18 years of legal battles. That wasn't me but you know what? I remember it and will state it. We treat our troops like dirt sometimes and it's intolerable.

I'm also not the one, when facing a cut to the DoD budget, that made the decision to take that cut out of veteran's benefits. I find that deeply disrespectful and repugnant. I actually fight for the sake of our veterans. I want our troops to be treated the way that they deserve. Not like guinea pigs or cannon fodder. As long as we remain blind to what our government does wrong, then these things do not get corrected.

I'm not paranoid. I harbor no delusions and nobody is out to get me. I'm after the ones harming them.

Was poking around on a somewhat related subject and thought these links might be useful in conjunction with the documentary:

Assassination plots: www.intelligence.senate.gov...
Chile: www.intelligence.senate.gov...
Iran-Contra: www.intelligence.senate.gov...

Thanx for the linx Alice.....
I have to mention Dr Ewen Cameron on that MK ultra program....became head of American psychiatry Assoc.....
He managed to pull off some horrible treatments for mind wiping.....psychic driving I think he called it....

stirling
Thanx for the linx Alice.....
I have to mention Dr Ewen Cameron on that MK ultra program....became head of American psychiatry Assoc.....
He managed to pull off some horrible treatments for mind wiping.....psychic driving I think he called it....

Yep, he most certainly was president of the APA before MK-ULTRA. He was also chairman of the World and Canadian Psychiatric Associations as well. He was definitely not some random unknown psychiatrist in the slightest. Cameron's thoughts on the subject of mental health were on the extreme side but, considering the era and context of the times, it's not that surprising that he did reach such prominence. My grandfather was the 509th Composite Group and the secrecy was extreme from what he told me. The big concern was that, now that the world knew that the US had an atomic bomb, that we'd lose hold of that knowledge. Deeply paranoid times and perhaps for good reason. Problem with paranoia is that everybody becomes suspect. Cameron had many thoughts on the subject of hazardous people during the McCarthy Era and that's probably what catapulted him into those positions before his stint with the CIA ever started.

It was called "psychic driving" and it basically wrecked the individual. Some of his patients were unable to care for themselves and many apparently suffered from amnesia, which could've simply been from the trauma of the experience whether it be compartmentalized memories or dissociative fugue. It's almost a pity that he died before what he had done ever surfaced because I think it would've been better if he had fallen from grace in his life time. However, even those who were involved with the project still ended up getting medals and whatnot anyways.