95% of our universe is missing RIGHT?

If i entirely misunderstood your point here please let me know...

BurbGirl378
Yes, we ALL have free will.

We barely have that in a theoretical sense and certainly not in any practical sense. Then you may proceed to social conditioning, education and who you were raised by and talking about free will can be dismissed as a rather more absurd notion than our current cosmological model(s).

Every human has the choice as to whether or not to obey The Powers That Be (TPTB).

The closest most people ever get to a sense of the normal conspiratorial 'TBTB' is the 'devil' or some like minded entity but since that misses the mark by the proverbial mile perhaps it should be instructive as to just how able most people are in setting a sensible course in life or to decide what or who they should serve in this or that way.

The only thing you can reliable expect people to do is what other people are doing.

The consequences for not following the 'program' that the TPTB have put into place can be devastating or even deadly.

I have no idea what that means and neither does that 20-30 million people that starve or die of preventable disease each year. What program do they have and who cares if some middle class fool doesn't play ball and has to work at Walmart? I am not sure that you really understand that the people who suffer the most in our capitalist world order are also those that have the very least understanding of what, if anything, the system expects ( or if they are already pretty much dead) expected of them. Would you write a program where the absolute vast majority of the victims didn't know the rules of the 'game' ? That's how nature works and i suspect is a perfectly good reason to suppose the same to be true for the human experience in general ...

The same electrical machines (computers) that use bits and bytes (simple zero’s and one’s) to account for our consumption can also be used to calculate mathematical queries to help us define our Universe.

That is exactly what computers are being used to do... I am not sure what that has to do with our consumption... Do you think that someone somewhere is keeping track of how much ocean or atmosphere we can still pollute without destroying the biosphere?

Just because humans use bits and bytes to define our Universe does not necessarily allow us to arrive at the conclusion that the Universe is produced or controlled by them.

edit on 21-12-2013 by BurbGirl378 because: Add a smiley

I doubt that too and since it seems well within the real of questions the scientific method can't be applied too i suspect there are meta physicists looking for funding...

Stellar

reply to post by Ericthedoubter

What is the proof that we ARE living in a simulated universe. You spend way to much time in "cyber space" and you are losing your ability to function in "real space" so you want to believe you can find a way to control "real space" from your computer keyboard.

We live in a reality of cause and effect. Burning too much carbon into our atmosphere has caused some pretty wicked climate change. This climate change was not pre-programmmed into our reality using a binary code. It was caused by the greed of TPTB. Their desire to amass a fortune to ensure their own attainment of goods harvested from our planet by providing goods harvested from our planet to others in our population. All of this done using a monetary system designed and implemented by humans.

There is a 'grand design' to much that exists in our Universe. Much of it can be understood using binary code to perform mathematical function. It is wonderful and amazing that we, as part of this Universe, have been able to discern these patterns using algorithms.

The practice of Alchemy lead to our determination of the elements included in the periodic table. The practice of mathematical function using algorithms will lead to the further enlightenment of our species.

StellarX
If i entirely misunderstood your point here please let me know...

You seemed to have missed this point: The Greed of the TPTB.

It has been observed and well known by many that much of the worlds starvation in the population is caused by Corrupt Governments who crave power over the masses, and then use that power to serve their own desire to amass wealth. This is not the 'fault' of those who starve in poverty that they did not comply with a 'program', but it is the fault of TPTB in neglecting to provide the necessary goods harvested from the earth to the people they govern.

BurbGirl378
You seemed to have missed this point: The Greed of the TPTB.

Unless you mean to suggest that they are greedy for full control over humanity i don't think i missed the point! Either way the guys who are amassing the wealth are little other than the enforces who don't really know what the bigger plan is but will play their part for the 'wealth' that they do still care for. Also i would not use the word 'negligent' to describe the actions of those trying to control the world even if i guess i could call the actions of the 'enforcer' group that in as much as they are badly 'administrating' some of their areas.

Either way the suffering i have observed seems pretty real to me, and certainly seemed so for the other party, so it do not think it's meaningful to talk about that even if this is ultimately shown to be some elaborate 'illusion'/deception.

Stellar

StellarX

BurbGirl378
You seemed to have missed this point: The Greed of the TPTB.

The closest most people ever get to a sense of the normal conspiratorial 'TPTB' is the 'devil' or some like minded entity...

... who don't really know what the bigger plan is but will play their part for the 'wealth'...

Either way the suffering i have observed seems pretty real to me...

The only thing you can reliable expect people to do is what other people are doing.

Stellar

I apologize for deviating from the 'Normal Conspiracy'. That free will thing must be kicking in, or my algorithm has become corrupted. You are right. There is way too much suffering, and humans don't have to accept this as part of a pre-programmed plan for human existence. The absolute vast majority of the victims don't know the rules of the 'game'. They only know they are without the human necessities of fresh air, clean water, nutritious food, safe shelter, and kind companionship.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder



Interesting, very interesting, it would seam then assuming this is correct that we really know dark matter exists or is this just another part of the program.

The bending of light because of gravity was proved in around 1922 as part of Einstein's theory of relativity. Have we been able to get it down so accurately as to take into account dark matter?

Also if energy can not be made or destroyed where is all this extra energy coming from?

reply to post by Volund


Thanks so much for getting back to me of that. It is so nice too know that I am not alone with these weird thoughts, well at leas weird to the main stream.

reply to post by mbkennel

These stoners as you call them have PHD’S.

I have heard that the film the Matrix has something to do with this idea but sorry I have never been able to get past he first ten minutes with out being board out of my mind by such nonsense.

reply to post by BurbGirl378


“Yes, we ALL have free will.”

Not that long ago I came across a very interesting question. Which was:

What was your biggest mistake?

I gave it some thought as every body has made mistakes, taking the left fork in the road rather than the right etc, at which point I realised that all my major mistakes had lead me to where I am today. Without them I would not be at this point.

Coincidence well may be prewritten perhaps.

As a species we have travelled into the future, ok only by parts of a second but still that could be considered proof of concept. Therefore the future exists. If it exists has it be per-determined?

reply to post by winofiend


“And op, how do you quantify 95% of infinity”

Not Possible.

If a same bird goes to the mountain once every thousand years to sharpen its beak, when the mountain is no more a day on infinity will have passed.

This is how I think of infinity.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


“Our species is a joke. Why and how we exist does not matter to us. What matters to us are the size of Kim Kardashian's tits and how many celebrities went publicly gay bashing this week.”

Sorry I have very heard of Kim Kardashian's or wonderd about her I assume TIT size. Are they good, I like good as in pleasing to the eye big doesn’t really work for me. Having said that think Madalin Smith in her day.

What you say certainly work for the vast majority thank goodness for ATS.

reply to post by Ericthedoubter


“There is NO WAY to prove that we aren't living in a simulation universe.”

That is why I like the concept. But people do get upset about he whole idea.

If we are we are always have been always will be.

reply to post by MAC269

Not upset. Just not inclined to change one's worldview.

Prove unicorns don't exist. Will it change anything even if you can?

reply to post by Phage


Dear Phage

Thank you so much for your 2 cents worth.

Yes that is my point as I see it, it changes for us little, however I would still like to know. After all it just about is the ultimate question the meaning of life and everything. Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy.

However asking this question really dose upset some folk specially the religious.

reply to post by MAC269

42...

What was the question?

reply to post by Phage


No it was the white mice.

Thecakeisalie
When scientists talks about this '96 percent', they are talking about mass. Only 4 perecnt of the universe's mass can be attributed to stellar objects-stars, planets, gases, etc and the rest of it is attributed to dark matter, which is still mostly a mystery.

Mass is only a small part of the 96%.

The 96% is mostly energy (73%) and only 23% mass (dark matter).



I will answer the OP question with another question:

What did people breathe before oxygen was discovered?

The oxygen was never missing, we just hadn't figured out what it was before its discovery. It was always there. Likewise, whatever causes our observations of dark matter and dark energy is there, but like oxygen before its discovery, we just haven't figured it out yet. I suspect we'll figure it out eventually, but the answers aren't coming easily.

It's probably got nothing to do with the Matrix idea.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Dear Arbitrageur

It is so nice to hear from you.

Sorry I was not me who brought up the matrix I could never get passed the first ten minuets.

Maybe you are right but apparently and this is according to the Boffins. It is statically more likely that we are part of a computer program running in our not to distant future than not.

Also as someone pointed out earlier we will not get an answer to that unless the computer programmer lets us.

All this also relates to experiments where if someone is watching you get different result than if they are not. Things that are not there until you start looking for them.

Is there some computer nerd working feverously to keep up with human development?

Also this idea allows everything to work. Religion, an omni present GOD. Just not quite the way they think.

I just quite like the idea because it makes you think.

MAC269
Maybe you are right but apparently and this is according to the Boffins. It is statically more likely that we are part of a computer program running in our not to distant future than not.

I've read some of what the boffins wrote about it, and then I've also read what the popular media has to say about what the boffins wrote.

Would it surprise you to learn that the media representation of what the boffins actually said isn't entirely accurate? Not only in this case, but many others as well. They don't really say it's likely, at least not that I've read.

The papers I've read said they tried to disprove it and were unable to or something like that, but I would add that they have also been unable to disprove that there is an invisible dragon living inside my garage.

So I don't interpret their papers to mean that the computer program is any more likely than the invisible dragon in my garage. But if you would like to cite a specific scientific paper that you think indicates otherwise, feel free to link it and I'll read it if available and try to interpret what I think it really says...which isn't always easy to interpret, if you're not a boffin in that particular specialty.

I don't know why people argue in these threads or elsewhere because 99% of us have already made our mind up before we enter the thread.

The question brought forward by the OP confuses me too much. I can't produce anything intelligable. Maybe I could foam at the mouth.

At any rate, far as I'm concerned, anything is possible. Maybe the PHD's are right. Maybe they're right and wrong. Maybe this is all just a dream. Maybe tomorrow all the rules change. Maybe we'll wake up and not know anything changed.