Islam is not a religion

Or rather, Islam is not justa religion. A religion, as I understand it, is a set of beliefs and practices pertaining to a deity or deities. Multiple religions can coexist at the same place and time.

However, Islam is more than just a religion. It is an an entire way of life. An entire governmental system like Communism or Capitalism. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists etc can all coexist in the same time and place but Islam as a system cannot coexist with any other system in the same time and place. A government cannot be Democratic and Islamic. Nor can a government practice Capitalism and Islam.

This is just something I wanted to get off my chest. Too many Muslims and non-Muslims alike are mistaken when it comes to the nature of Islam.

reply to post by Octoneo


Isn't this why the Shia and Sunni fight each other - to the death. For me its why Islam is such a dangerous concept and explains the thinking behind the extremists.

I hope that my government will ensure that no man who has gone from this country to fight abroad for Islamic beliefs is allowed back here, no matter what family he has left behind, simply because it is not morally or legally right for a man to slaughter, rape, main and destroy the infrastructure and homes in another country because he doesn't like their beliefs and genuinely believes they deserve every bit of visciousness he can force upon them because they don't share his religion.

I believe it was a Rabbi, a while ago, that said it would be a good idea to rewrite religion for today's world - I remember him stirring all sorts of hissy fits, but I believe he was absolutely correct - for those who need a specific religion or way of life to follow.

reply to post by Octoneo


Judaism was once like Islam is now. They couldn't coexist with anyone. It was their way or get stoned.

Islam has the potential of being a great religion. At least their teachings believe God gave us resources to better ourselves and not live in fear... But...just like Christians, their holy leaders choose to use the religion to control people and not move forward.

Islam is great, the core belief is sound and it does play host to some of the most beautiful people in the world. Alas though, extremists twist and corrupt young peoples minds to go fight in THEIR war. Every religion harbors the power to do great goods or great evils.

That is all! (if this isnt making much sense I do apologize, the pain killers haven't worn off yet)

Whilst I respect your opinion and at no point do I think it has been born out of a racist notion (I just wanted to throw that in there as I am anticipating somebody bringing that up against you) I think you are confused.

I feel you have confused culture and religion.

Until recent history Islam has been no worse at co-exisiting than any other religion. Some would argue that the recent closure of Islam is due to factors that have sod all to do with religion or even culture but outside influences.

Islam has a long history with capitalism, and a small amount of research shows this, they have been merchants and traders for thousands of years, and there are modern capitalist Muslim countries too.

Many Muslim countries have democracy too, take Somaliland, an amazing, peaceful, open and democratic capitalist country that is also majority Muslim that I visited last year.

You may not hear about peaceful co existence and/or Muslim communities that tie in with your view of how a good western democratic society acts but those stories just don't sell.


There are many countries that don't fit in to those constraints that don't have a democracy, that don't have any kind of strong modern capitalist system that AREN'T Muslim, and this is proof that it is down to culture.
In many cases I would also argue that it is down to how 'developed' the country is.

I would like to point out that I live in a city where Muslims and non Muslims both take part in the community, both eat and socialise in the same places, do business together and get along very well. We are all Brummy bretheren whilst each keeping our own traditions and ability to worship how we do or don't want.

We are not the only place where this happens, it has happened in the past too.


And all this from a person (me) that would like to see a world without religion!

In our community Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Bahais and Parsis co-exist. Invite each other to cultural and religious events. No one interferes or dictate rules over the others. It's the crazy extremist bunch who've been trained in fanatical ideology at special schools, that you hear on the news everyday. They're the ones ruining the reputation of decent muslims worldwide.
In our community their religion/culture is no different from others.

thekaboose
Islam is great, the core belief is sound ....

The core beliefs come from a murdering thief and liar who made up visions from God in order to control the ignorant populace into doing his deadly bidding. He ad libbed from Judaism, Christianity and the Zoroastrians .. making up silly fictional stories about bible characters. His stories are easily debunked. How is 'the core belief sound' when the premise of the Qu'ran is nothing but a house of cards??

Islam is anti-progress and enslavement...

everything the conspiracy theorists fear about the United States, it's all right there... a society for the few on top.

reply to post by Octoneo

However, Islam is more than just a religion. It is an an entire way of life. An entire governmental system like Communism or Capitalism.

Most religions have established a way of life. Islam is no different.

You cant call yourself a Christian/Jew/Buddhist/Hindu etc without subscribing to certain doctrines or following a certain diet / ritual practice / legal system.

Well, surprise! Islam is no different.

but if you submit... you can have multiple wives and other freaky rights.

hell you can even stone one of them to death if you wish!

I have a certain sympathy for our western British converts, we don't have many of them here that I have seen.

!!! SUBMIT !!! OBEY !!!

This thread isn't about whether Islam is evil and murderous or whether Islam is a wonderful peaceful religion or not.

It's about whether it has the ability to co exist.

Don't derail the thread by loving or hating Islam.

As I pointed out in my first response to this thread it can co exist. Even though I feel the core of Islam (and all major religions) is rotten and violent, it can co exists, live with capitalism, democracy and peace.

Many Islamic countries are far behind western countries both in equality, justice and peace (not that we are even close to those things), but that has little to nothing to do with religion, proof of this is the non Muslim countries that are no better off.

Despite the fact that I strongly dislike Islam (and other religions) I will continue to live in peace with thee strong Muslim community where I live for as long as I can.

sk0rpi0n
You cant call yourself a Christian .... without subscribing to certain doctrines or following a certain diet / ritual practice / legal system.

why can't a Christian call him/her self a Christian unless they are 'on a certain diet'?
The Catholics fast on 'meatless Fridays' during Lent. That's a discipline that they can choose to
follow. And if they choose not to follow it, they are no less catholic or christian.
So explain exactly about how all Christians have to be on special diets otherwise they
can't call themselves a Christian.

why can't a Christian call him/her self a Christian unless they engage in 'ritual practice'?
Catholics, Episcopalians, Orthodox .. they have ritual practice in their worship ceremonies in
their respective churches. And yet, if they didn't attend the worship ceremonies, they would
still be considered Catholics, Episcopalians, and Orthodox Christians. So how exactly is it
that all 'Christian can't call themselves Christian without engaging in 'ritual practice'??

why can't a Christian call him/herself a Christian unless it's part of their legal system?
Christianity is not part of the legal system in the USA. So are you saying that not a single
Christian in this country can call him/her self a Christian because we have secular rule of
law? That's absurd.

Here's the topic .... Islam is a governmental system.

Octoneo
Islam is more than just a religion. It is an an entire way of life. An entire governmental system like Communism or Capitalism.

reply to post by b14warrior


everything is possible... they are no going to coexist in the direction the world is going, they need to get with it! give their women rights and what God wants of everyone "freedom"

we've been thru this in my nations own history... is it the republicans and hardline conscious Christians who led the fight against slavery... it is beautiful that we have overcome.

what they have there even in the so called moderates is disgusting!

b14warrior
This thread isn't about whether Islam is evil and murderous or whether Islam is a wonderful peaceful religion or not. It's about whether it has the ability to co exist.

.... and to see if it has the ability to co-exist you must look at what it preaches and puts into practice. Being inherently violent and misogynistic and intolerant of people worshipping God differently then they do, it has proven on it's own that it can't peacefully co-exist.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

SisyphusRide
but if you submit... you can have multiple wives and other freaky rights.

hell you can even stone one of them to death if you wish!

I have a certain sympathy for our western British converts, we don't have many of them here that I have seen.

!!! SUBMIT !!! OBEY !!!

Let us not forget that it wasn't all that far back in history that Christians were using the bible to execute others
in similar ways.

Yet further proof that it's more about cultural development.

Our leaders have just learned how to control and commit atrocities in a more acceptable way.

FlyersFan

.... and to see if it has the ability to co-exist you must look at what it preaches and puts into practice. Being inherently violent and misogynistic and intolerant of people worshipping God differently then they do, it has proven on it's own that it can't peacefully co-exist.

Yet somehow I live in a mixed community with a large Muslim population and we all mix and get along.
There are many other places that are the same.
I was accepted when in an Islamic country last year, as was my wife (who did not cover hair or shoulders).
There have also been many examples of co existence in history, just because you haven't seen it, only proves that you don't know about it.

Again, not supporting any religion here.

reply to post by b14warrior


I could care less... take it up with the Romans or the Pope!

oh that's right, my nation already did...

SisyphusRide
reply to post by b14warrior

 

everything is possible... they are no going to coexist in the direction the world is going, they need to get with it! give their women rights and what God wants of everyone "freedom"

we've been thru this in my nations own history... is it the republicans and hardline conscious Christians who led the fight against slavery... it is beautiful that we have overcome.

what they have there even in the so called moderates is disgusting!

Well, it was Christians that started it. Almost all white westerners at that time were Christian so it's pretty much pointless saying they were Christian.
It's the equivalent of me boasting that the British abolished slavery before the States, it's pointless as we were partly the cause in the first place. Not quite sure why you are mentioning the Republicans, not really got anything to do with the debate.

'What they have there even in the so called moderates is disgusting' you say?
No more disgusting than what Christians have done in the name of Jesus and God in the past.

There are other regions around the world that have just as poor human rights records that aren't Islamic, so do they need to develop or else? And or else what? Nuke em? Because that is a whole different debate.

Sorry, there are other points in you posts but I can't really make them out as you English is not so good.
I do apologise if English is you second language.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


If you think only Catholic Christian committed atrocities then you need to go and do a history course.

Anyway, I wasn't pointing it out for you to apologise or to rip on Christians, it was to prove that things change, countries develop.

Either way, as I have already proved, there is co existence.

reply to post by b14warrior


then we will finish it!

enslavement is going down...