The anti-christ and the media's role in promoting him

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by BlackManINC

 

Interesting thoughts.

Does Satan want to present himself as the naturalistic creator of the human race and the universe or the supernatural creator???

when he performs miracles, would he want them to be recognized as something anyone can do (i.e naturalistic) or something that is special???

My understanding is that he is going to present himself as a supernatural being to be worshipped, so how he integrates evolutionary thought is interesting to speculate on. The directors of the media are going to have a good understanding that they will be promoting Satan, and his miracles are going to be pretty obvious that they are beyond a materialistic explanation...so we'll wait and see how it pans out.

edit on 4-11-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

As discredited as the very idea of a supernatural creator is in the eyes of the world as well as the Bible that also proclaims a supernatural creator behind the formation of all living things, it wouldn’t make sense to go against the current general mind set of the populace that is very much against the supernatural. Satan will tell the world what they want to hear. It doesn’t take rocket science to see where the culture is going looking at all the propaganda as a whole about the origins of life. With evolutionary theory that permeates every aspect of our society, he doesn’t need to present himself as the creator of the universe at all, since according to the theory, no creator is needed for the universe to exist in the first place.

To keep in line with this thinking, he'll likely present himself as not necessarily the creator of humanity, but as the jump starter towards us becoming what we are today. This is called the interventionist theory of evolution, promoted by shows like the ancient aliens TV show and throughout the culture. Since they can’t find the so called “missing links” proving the theory that we all have a common ancestor to some primate, some are now throwing the theory into outer space about our alien origins. This gives Satan a platform to present himself as the middle man, the interventionist that came to this earth and manipulated the DNA of apes to speed up our evolution into modern humans, which also goes in line with this theory called punctuated equilibrium, which means evolution in a hurry.

So you are asking if Satan or the son of perdition would want the miracles he performs to be recognized as something special or something anyone can do? I say both. What the antichrist will pull off will be very special indeed, but it will eventually be promoted as something that we can attain. It all goes back to the same lie Satan told Adam & Eve in Eden, that if they eat this 'fruit' they shall as Gods, currently being promoted in the new age movement. I'm certain this will have a lot to do with the mark of the beast, as anyone that takes it is screwed and will be thrown in the lake of fire for an eternity. The implications of taking it are obviously far more serious than it simply being a tool for economic coercion.

BlackManINC

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by BlackManINC

 

Interesting thoughts.

Does Satan want to present himself as the naturalistic creator of the human race and the universe or the supernatural creator???

when he performs miracles, would he want them to be recognized as something anyone can do (i.e naturalistic) or something that is special???

My understanding is that he is going to present himself as a supernatural being to be worshipped, so how he integrates evolutionary thought is interesting to speculate on. The directors of the media are going to have a good understanding that they will be promoting Satan, and his miracles are going to be pretty obvious that they are beyond a materialistic explanation...so we'll wait and see how it pans out.

edit on 4-11-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

As discredited as the very idea of a supernatural creator is in the eyes of the world as well as the Bible that also proclaims a supernatural creator behind the formation of all living things, it wouldn’t make sense to go against the current general mind set of the populace that is very much against the supernatural. Satan will tell the world what they want to hear. It doesn’t take rocket science to see where the culture is going looking at all the propaganda as a whole about the origins of life. With evolutionary theory that permeates every aspect of our society, he doesn’t need to present himself as the creator of the universe at all, since according to the theory, no creator is needed for the universe to exist in the first place.

To keep in line with this thinking, he'll likely present himself as not necessarily the creator of humanity, but as the jump starter towards us becoming what we are today. This is called the interventionist theory of evolution, promoted by shows like the ancient aliens TV show and throughout the culture. Since they can’t find the so called “missing links” proving the theory that we all have a common ancestor to some primate, some are now throwing the theory into outer space about our alien origins. This gives Satan a platform to present himself as the middle man, the interventionist that came to this earth and manipulated the DNA of apes to speed up our evolution into modern humans, which also goes in line with this theory called punctuated equilibrium, which means evolution in a hurry.

So you are asking if Satan or the son of perdition would want the miracles he performs to be recognized as something special or something anyone can do? I say both. What the antichrist will pull off will be very special indeed, but it will eventually be promoted as something that we can attain. It all goes back to the same lie Satan told Adam & Eve in Eden, that if they eat this 'fruit' they shall as Gods, currently being promoted in the new age movement. I'm certain this will have a lot to do with the mark of the beast, as anyone that takes it is screwed and will be thrown in the lake of fire for an eternity. The implications of taking it are obviously far more serious than it simply being a tool for economic coercion.

What IS your definition of ALMIGHTY? (think very carefully!)

Å99

Christians forget that their own book speaks of great signs, wonders, and miracles being performed in the name of their god, all of which can never be proven to have happened outside of a book.

Ever stopped to wonder that maybe the antichrist has been here all along pointing his finger at others as being the antichrist all while bringing in billions of followers of its own from its "great signs and wonders"?

The greatest trick Satan ever played on the world was making it believe he was God. He has fooled billions into believing his trick already and gains new followers every single day.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
Christians forget that their own book speaks of great signs, wonders, and miracles being performed in the name of their god, all of which can never be proven to have happened outside of a book.

Ever stopped to wonder that maybe the antichrist has been here all along pointing his finger at others as being the antichrist all while bringing in billions of followers of its own from its "great signs and wonders"?

The greatest trick Satan ever played on the world was making it believe he was God. He has fooled billions into believing his trick already and gains new followers every single day.

"How do you inform someone of the dangers of thier own minds to invent a phantasm, that they then project onto what they see in the world around them?...infecting the minds of others to further invent, and so on, and so forth..." Quote Å99

The mind is a wonderful & terrible thing...

Å99

No need for antichrist, humans are the most evil this planet has ever seen...

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

all of which can never be proven to have happened outside of a book.

reply to post by akushla99

How do you inform someone of the dangers of thier own minds to invent a phantasm, that they then project onto what they see in the world around them?...infecting the minds of others

I could provide various lines of evidence for you, for the global flood, for Sodom and Gomorrah's supernatural destruction, for the resurrection, for Jesus still being alive today working miracles, and other things but it is my experience that people don't actually listen to the evidence (i.e take it onboard) even when they have no explanation against what is presented. Such information is off-topic for this thread so it is fairly pointless bringing up dissent on whether Christianity is even true because it is not contributing to the discussion.

3NL1GHT3N3D1, your thoughts about billions following after the anti-christ already has validity to some degree. Most people understand the 'beast from the sea' of Revelation 13 and the harlot of Babylon to be the anti-christ. If you go through biblical prophecy properly you find all the characteristics are met by the Vatican/papal system. If you research behind WW2 for instance you will see the Vatican completely behind it through the most significant ways. While the vatican/papal system is a kind of anti-christ, the actual being who comes impersonating the second coming of Jesus is the dragon (i.e Satan). So you have an aspect of people being deceived throughout the ages through the RCC and then finally with Satan himself, so two key aspects involved (not including the 'beast of the earth', which will just complicate understanding).

Let's try have a constructive discussion than just trying to poke, what seems to be unnecessarily

reply to post by BlackManINC

he'll likely present himself as not necessarily the creator of humanity, but as the jump starter towards us becoming what we are today

Scientists in 2009 said,

At present, thinking about the origin of Life usually ends with a severe headache. The problems to be solved and their interconnectedness are dazzling.
source: Renato Fani, and Vaneechoutte, Mario "From the Primordial Soup to the Latest Universal Common Ancestor," Research in Microbiology 160, no. 7 (September 2009). p.440.

and argument from March 2013 cites the understanding of the irreducible complexity of life is falsifying evolutionary theory despite biology progressing to the molecular level.

But in more recent years, there is a growing realization that a molecular approach to understanding evolutionary dynamics is insufficient, that evolutionary biology’s more fundamental challenge is to address the unresolved problem of complexity
source: Robert and Pross Pascal, Addy, "The Origin of Life:What We Know, What We Can Know and What We Will Never Know," Open Biology 3, no. 3 (March 2013). p.4

I think you are right about trying to sell himself as the jump-starter of humanity but as the quotes show, the latest in science basically can not conceive how even evolutionary theory can produce life so it is a very hard sell to even them who will be demanding some proof and seeing that he does not have the power to produce life, he will be unable to deliver.

it will eventually be promoted as something that we can attain. It all goes back to the same lie Satan told Adam & Eve in Eden, that if they eat this 'fruit' they shall as Gods, currently being promoted in the new age movement

I tend to agree with you here as well. From my research on the NAM it appears that the promise of ascension and DNA upgrades will be the elusive but promised carrot that drives the hate towards those that won't accept the beast's mark. The dissenters will be painted as causing the trouble and holding up planetary development so it would be in the interests of humanity to have them 'disappear' as Alice Bailey suggests.

Swills
reply to post by PrimeLight

 

The creation of Superman was influenced by sci-fi & religion. So it wasn't only Jesus who helped influence the Jewish creators of Superman but probably Moses as well.

It was both Moses and Yeshua. Moses was an archetype of Yeshua, all the Hebrew prophets before Christ were. The symbolism between the two is mind boggling. However Moses wasn't give as the Light to men to lead them out of Darkness. Moses did however write about Yeshua, according to the Lord.

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

all of which can never be proven to have happened outside of a book.

reply to post by akushla99

 

How do you inform someone of the dangers of thier own minds to invent a phantasm, that they then project onto what they see in the world around them?...infecting the minds of others

I could provide various lines of evidence for you, for the global flood, for Sodom and Gomorrah's supernatural destruction, for the resurrection, for Jesus still being alive today working miracles, and other things but it is my experience that people don't actually listen to the evidence (i.e take it onboard) even when they have no explanation against what is presented. Such information is off-topic for this thread so it is fairly pointless bringing up dissent on whether Christianity is even true because it is not contributing to the discussion.
Let's try have a constructive discussion than just trying to poke, what seems to be unnecessarily

How 'bout this...how 'bout you face head-on the question I posed? If you know yourself as much as you would like to think, you could answer the question very easily, but that would mean admitting you had the mind of a child that scares itself and others with a unique ability to concretise ideaforms and thoughtforms - handed to you by generation upon generation of childish minds that have forgotten ONE...important...detail...

Now...bend an adult mind and explain how a fictional rival fits into the concept of Almightiness...this will answer the OP question and leave you with a more than sheepish grin at the folly of inventing something that could not (in reality) have ANY skerrick of a chance at even forming the idea to challenge AN ALMIGHTY GOD...or...you do not believe that God is Almighty enough, or, your concept of Almighty has holes in it that admit a rival because you cannot think like an adult...got it? What is your role in promoting a fictional character?

Å99

reply to post by akushla99

What is your role in promoting a fictional character?

I will refer you to this post as an example of people who poke and their opinion turns out to be backed up by nothing. Please view my interaction with that person on the 1st page of that thread and some of your thoughts may be answered (some will require other specific info). You will notice that after the info I provide I get no response back. Most people can't be bothered reading in depth, haven't read what I have, don't have access to the academic journals or doctoral theses I cite. If you have a deeply entrenched position against mine I could show you fairly quickly with a few arguments here or there that support my view and are authoritative but you probably have many complementary strands of thought that would still hold you to that position even if your specific points are shown as contradictory to rationale. I would rather someone be interested in understanding my position and ask what have you read that has made you come to that conclusion. I would rather suggest some books for you to read because I am not convinced that the antagonistic format of a forum is conducive to constructive learning. Through my time hear I can not recall a clear instant where someone holding to an important view has changed their tune while being presented with all kinds of facts from many people. I think people discovering info for themselves rather than being told, no matter how good, producing lasting results. There is no point me starting a discourse if we are merely talking to brick walls. I don't enjoy wasted effort...

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by akushla99

 

What is your role in promoting a fictional character?

I will refer you to this post as an example of people who poke and their opinion turns out to be backed up by nothing. Please view my interaction with that person on the 1st page of that thread and some of your thoughts may be answered (some will require other specific info). You will notice that after the info I provide I get no response back. Most people can't be bothered reading in depth, haven't read what I have, don't have access to the academic journals or doctoral theses I cite. If you have a deeply entrenched position against mine I could show you fairly quickly with a few arguments here or there that support my view and are authoritative but you probably have many complementary strands of thought that would still hold you to that position even if your specific points are shown as contradictory to rationale. I would rather someone be interested in understanding my position and ask what have you read that has made you come to that conclusion. I would rather suggest some books for you to read because I am not convinced that the antagonistic format of a forum is conducive to constructive learning. Through my time hear I can not recall a clear instant where someone holding to an important view has changed their tune while being presented with all kinds of facts from many people. I think people discovering info for themselves rather than being told, no matter how good, producing lasting results. There is no point me starting a discourse if we are merely talking to brick walls. I don't enjoy wasted effort...

edit on 6-11-2013 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

Here Einstein...I'll condense it for you into one simple question (which I've already asked)...

What IS your definition of ALMIGHTY?

Å99

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Take your time...it may be a trick question...
Let the word ALMIGHTY echo 'round in your head for a bit...

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


You are misunderstanding the purpose of why God will allow the antichrist for a time. The event is allowed to draw this creation to an end by dividing the world's population up into two distinct groups. How people react to the false Christ will determine their destiny, it is like a final test. You critique the actions of a God who you seemingly think submits to a lesser creation (i.e Satan) usurping Him, thus thinking he is not God and ridiculous. The whole premise of your critique is based on faulty assumptions and lack of background information. For me to correct your assumptions and provide you with background info you would believe requires heaps and heaps of info for you to read.

There is no point me talking about the specifics of the nature of the war in Heaven, the purpose of man's creation, if you have no foundation of evidence for supernatural creation or the existence of Satan ect ect. Any definitions or statements I provide that rely on these background understandings will be dismissed and misunderstood. A definition of 'Almighty' is not going to give you any useful info to work from. You are not asking a useful question for understanding the nature of a Christian prophecy about a earth closing supernatural deception IMO.

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by akushla99

 

You are misunderstanding the purpose of why God will allow the antichrist for a time. The event is allowed to draw this creation to an end by dividing the world's population up into two distinct groups. How people react to the false Christ will determine their destiny, it is like a final test. You critique the actions of a God who you seemingly think submits to a lesser creation (i.e Satan) usurping Him, thus thinking he is not God and ridiculous. The whole premise of your critique is based on faulty assumptions and lack of background information. For me to correct your assumptions and provide you with background info you would believe requires heaps and heaps of info for you to read.

There is no point me talking about the specifics of the nature of the war in Heaven, the purpose of man's creation, if you have no foundation of evidence for supernatural creation or the existence of Satan ect ect. Any definitions or statements I provide that rely on these background understandings will be dismissed and misunderstood. A definition of 'Almighty' is not going to give you any useful info to work from. You are not asking a useful question to understanding the nature of a Christian prophecy about a earth closing supernatural deception.

I'm not misunderstanding anything...

There's no 'allowing' of anything except what goes on in between your ears...unfortunately, that mechanism is a creative mechanism capable of spinning a story, contained in a book which has some 700,000 words, was 'written' by 40 different authors over the space of about 1500 years...thats a hell of a lot of editing, compiling, 'fact' checking, re-editing, altering, updating, translating, rewording, resentencing, resequencing etc...and more than enough time to make sure the story is somewhat consistent...this from an almost completely plagiarised 'document'...the only faith YOU would need, was the faith to believe that in not ONE of those ministrations over 1500 years did anyone tell a lie...feel confident about that?

Adjunct to this, your interpretation of this mangled piece of writing would need to be pretty accurate to make the kinds of claims that y'all make...in this case, the anti-christ/satan character...because all good drama needs an anti-hero...

Å99

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


"You are misunderstanding the purpose of why God will allow the antichrist for a time. The event is allowed to draw this creation to an end by dividing the world's population up into two distinct groups. How people react to the false Christ will determine their destiny, it is like a final test. You critique the actions of a God who you seemingly think submits to a lesser creation (i.e Satan) usurping Him, thus thinking he is not God and ridiculous. The whole premise of your critique is based on faulty assumptions and lack of background information. For me to correct your assumptions and provide you with background info you would believe requires heaps and heaps of info for you to read." Quote JesuitGarlic

...and how's about you stick to what you know for sure...instead of telling me what I know, don't know, do not understand, what I haven't read, or have read...that way, what you're saying won't sound like pronouncement from an authority you shouldn't be assuming...K?

Å99

reply to post by akushla99

thats a hell of a lot of editing, compiling, 'fact' checking, re-editing, altering, updating, translating, rewording, resentencing, resequencing etc...and more than enough time to make sure the story is somewhat consistent...this from an almost completely plagiarised 'document'

Wallace calculates some 20,000 New Testament (NT) manuscripts exist, 12 dating second-century and 124 within 300 years of NT composition. [Daniel B. Wallace, "Lost in Transmission: How Badly Did the Scribes Corrupt the New Testament Text," in Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament, ed. Daniel B. Wallace (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 2011). pp.28-29.]

The external patristic quotations alone are enough to reconstruct almost the entire NT directly, an overwhelming case for Gospel reliability. [There are over one million quotations of the NT by early church fathers in their commentaries and letters. Ibid. p.28; Bart D. Ehrman, and Metzger, Bruce M., The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration, 4th ed. (New York: Oxford University Press, 2005). p.126]

Relative to the next best attested writing from antiquity, Homer's Iliad, with 2200 extant manuscripts, its prolificacy, an order of magnitude less than the NT manuscripts, yet its reliability is considered 95% certain. [Wallace, "Lost in Transmission: How Badly Did the Scribes Corrupt the New Testament Text."p.30 footnotes; Patrick Gerald Lake, "Plato's Homeric Dialogue: Homeric Quotation, Paraphrase, and Allusion in the "Republic"" (Dissertation, Fordham University, 2011). p.11]

Bart Ehrman however cites the 300,000-400,000 manuscripts text variations charging the NT message equivalent of that at the end of a 'telephone game'. [Daniel B. Wallace, "Lost in Transmission: How Badly Did the Scribes Corrupt the New Testament Text," in Revisiting the Corruption of the New Testament, pp.31, 40.]

Wallace makes clear this misrepresentation, explaining the real significance of variants, "not one variant covers major doctrinal issues" nor "change[s] any cardinal belief of Christians". [Ibid. pp.40-43. The majority are spelling errors or scribal fatigue, next most numerous are synonym use, providing same meaning from translation, a low variant proportion arises from the inflected nature of Greek language where translation sometimes result in slight differences in sentence emphasis but essential meaning remains preserved, finally, least numerous are those impacting text meaning accounting for less than 1% of all variant types; J. Ed Komoszewski, Sawyer, M. James, and Wallace, Daniel B., Reinventing Jesus (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregal Publications, 2006). p.215]

Kenyon's synopsis, "the true meaning of every doubtful passage" is "practically certain", "this can be said of no other ancient book in the world". [ Frederic Kenyon was Director of the British Museum and a leading ancient manuscript authority; Frederic G. Kenyon, Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts, 4th ed. (New York: Harper, 1958). p.55]

So is your opinion implying the Bible is unreliable of any worth....nope

over 1500 years did anyone tell a lie...feel confident about that?

Considering that there is empirical evidence for Jesus still existing, performing miracles, and having authority above the latest Satanic guise of the alien abduction phenomena, I would say the essence of His character is perfectly intact as well as the promise of eternal life.

I would recommend you read Miracles: The Credibility of the New Testament Accounts and Ali en Intrusion
hundreds of first hand testimonies of Jesus stopping the phenomena of alien abductions part way through. CE4 research witness accounts

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

The immense complexity at the molecular level technically should put away the entire theory of successive upward evolution entirely, as even Darwin said himself. Because of this, more scientists are becoming skeptics of the traditional view of evolution.

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species

This could indeed produce some problems for the anti-christ. However, there is a way he can get around the inevitable skepticism. I now realize how important the scripture below really is to this subject. The Bible states that the anti-christ will honor the "God of forces", meaning that nature is God or that God is a force of nature and the very substance of the universe which is pantheism, also a core doctrine of the New Age movement.

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. - Daniel 11: 36 - 38

It’s quite obvious to me just from looking at this one verse alone that the anti-christ, as I suspect, will want to put the God of the Bible or the supernatural out of the picture altogether and keep everything within the realm of nature. The Gaia hypothesis also teaches that nature itself is God, is self-regulating, was always present, and recycles itself. Its like reincarnation applied to the universe. This is called the oscillating big bang theory in evolution. So understanding the pantheistic implications, the idea that God is a force of nature, that nature itself has infinite intelligence all by itself, you’ll begin to see that even with irreducible complexity, he could still let himself off the hook by claiming that life had to be complex at the molecular or bacterial level for life to "evolve" to begin with.

The miracles he will perform will still be reduced to some "scientific” or natural explanation, and henceforth, to the world, turning a stick into a snake would be akin to turning a primate into a human. This, yet again, is where punctuated equilibrium or evolution in a hurry will come in. I'm not claiming that my scenario will turn out to be 100% on point, but I'm certain I'm pretty close. He will exalt himself as God, just not a supernatural one. There is a very good reason why one of Pauls final warnings to Timothy regarding upholding the faith had to do with what is pawned off as "science". Even in his days they were debating the evolutionists concerning the origins of life.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. - 1 Timothy 6:19-21

reply to post by BlackManINC


From the sounds of it, you seem like you've come across Walter Veith's Genesis Conflict series and as well possibly material from Steve Quayle and Tom Horn. Is this right?

reply to post by waverlyhills

you lost me when you said Star Wars was one of the first films to introduce people to the occult.

True...
The Wizard of Oz
Bedknobs & Broomsticks
Mary Poppins

And for TV:
Bewitched
Dark Shadows

...just to name a few.

I loved them all, btw. Yet, I never wanted to delve into the occult because of them!

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by BlackManINC

 

From the sounds of it, you seem like you've come across Walter Veith's Genesis Conflict series and as well possibly material from Steve Quayle and Tom Horn. Is this right?

I have read some articles and watched some videos from Steve Quayle and Tom Horn to an extent but I haven’t read any of their books. I never heard of Walter Veith, he seems like an interesting guy that is right up my alley. I guess I'm not as heavy a reader as I thought, definitely not one of the most on this site. I just came to my conclusions from just analyzing a fairly small amount of material from all perspectives and after a while in seeing some consistency in the grand scheme of things, simply comparing the material to what’s actually happening, the agenda became very clear to me. It especially became crystal clear when I finally came around to extensively researching the theory of evolution and its true origins going all the way back to Babylon, which also happens to be the place where the mystery religion of Nimrod, Tammuz, and Semiramis started, the inspiration of pretty much all false religions.