What is point in doing science...

KrzYma

Faith and faith healing is tangibly real:
www.youtube.com...

Einsteins relatively gives us the ability to have literal 6 days of creation...

This is the same kind of reasoning as the guy had claiming UFOs will come in to London in October.

I am sure he also can "scientifically" deduce that his fantasies are actually scientifically accurate by taking some scientific view and bending it until it fits even the most bizarre belief.

Of course, I can also say that Einstein's relativity makes it likely that "creation" took 86152 years, 98723 million years, or a second. Or it happened in an instant. What's the point? Using relativity to "prove" that the bible is right. Kinda laughable.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


there is no longer male or female, freeman or bond, for all are one in christ jesus.

from that i assume, very obviously, that it means slavery is void as you can't be one in christ jesus if you're a slave. and since there is no longer a bond, how can you have a slave??? and you can't have inequality of sexes, if you're one in christ jesus. i mean if it was any more obvious, it'd get up in their faces and scream it loud enough so they could hear it

KrzYma

OneManArmy

SuperFrog
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Please tell me you did not place words moral and religion in the same sentence?!

What is so moral about religion, or better - how does religion teach you about morality?

"Thou shalt not kill"

"Thou shalt not kill" ???
look the vid in my post above

Listen, Im not a Christian. I can see the immorality of PEOPLE, you dont need to point out human nature to me, I have also read the bible and its full of tales with a moral ending. I just pointed out a single religious moral.(As I was asked to).
What people do and what the Bible says are 2 different things.
Our law descends from canon law. (Religious morality)
Does everyone obey the law? Of course they dont.

My point...30 years ago we didnt have pop videos with half naked girls sprawling themselves over materialistic fluff targeted at prepubescent to adolescent girls and boys.
Go back 100 yrs and it was immoral to expose the female legs.

Whats changed is that science has come along and taken it upon itself to make the Bible a "laughing stock" only believed by "gullible fools". The Bible isnt literal, its metaphorical. Which is why its so open to interpretation.
It is simply a collection of the oldest "wisdoms"(texts) compiled into a book.

All I was saying is that as take up in the religion diminishes, so does knowledge of those ancient moral and human lessons written within.
Just because the wisdom was old, that doesnt make it any less wise.

I think that not even that long ago(50 yrs) many more people took heed of the bibles morals in the way they lived their lives than they do today. And please Im sure I dont have to provide any evidence for that as its plainly evident.

Ultimately... Does religion make people try to be better people? YES UNDOUBTEDLY.
Does it make ALL people try to be better people? Of course not, what does?
Does it make some people judgemental and self important? Without a doubt.

The morals remain the same, what people do with it is up to them.

reply to post by undo


Link for you:

Myth: Equality is a Christian Principle and is Based on Christianity

First, here is the biblical passage in question:

But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. So that the law is become our tutor [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now faith that is come, we are no longer under a tutor. For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one [man] in Christ Jesus. And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:24-29)

For most of Christian history, there was no "universality of human dignity" in political and social contexts. Some were serfs or slaves who had no power or dignity; others were aristocrats and nobles who wielded tremendous power and had much dignity. The passage in question comes from a section of Galatians written to explain the "purpose of the law" — not civil law, but Jewish religious law. There is neither "Jew nor Gentile" because all who accept Jesus are now equal before God and there is no single tribe constituting God's chosen people. There is neither "male nor female" because circumcision is no longer required. There is neither "slave nor freeman" because there are no slaves of God, just disciples.

The simple fact is, this "radical Christian notion of equality" has not traditionally been applied to legal or political matters; on the contrary, Christians have gone out of their way to insist that it only applies to spiritual matters — this "equality" is one the exists only before God and not necessarily before the state, the king, the judge, or the law. This interpretation is generally agreed upon by authoritative and standard commentaries.

Your bible quote falls short of what you are trying to say.

well paul is not my favorite biblical writer, sorry to say. he also thought women should be silent in the church, even though jesus took a woman right up front in the synagogue and had her speak to the men who were furious that he had done so. the first people to proclaim the gospel, were women. jesus was waaaay ahead of his time. it is not my fault, or his, that paul had his own ideas about such things.

It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Proofs are examples of deductive reasoning and are distinguished from inductive or empirical arguments; a proof must demonstrate that a statement is always true (occasionally by listing all possible cases and showing that it holds in each), rather than enumerate many confirmatory cases. An unproven statement that is believed true is known as a conjecture.

- Wikipedia

So if Science knows it is wrong, and Religion is nothing but conjecture; the logical conclusion is that EVERYONE INVOLVED IS WRONG.

OneManArmy

KrzYma

OneManArmy

SuperFrog
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

Please tell me you did not place words moral and religion in the same sentence?!

What is so moral about religion, or better - how does religion teach you about morality?

"Thou shalt not kill"

"Thou shalt not kill" ???
look the vid in my post above

Listen, Im not a Christian. I can see the immorality of PEOPLE, you dont need to point out human nature to me, I have also read the bible and its full of tales with a moral ending. I just pointed out a single religious moral.(As I was asked to).
What people do and what the Bible says are 2 different things.
Our law descends from canon law. (Religious morality)
Does everyone obey the law? Of course they dont.

My point...30 years ago we didnt have pop videos with half naked girls sprawling themselves over materialistic fluff targeted at prepubescent to adolescent girls and boys.
Go back 100 yrs and it was immoral to expose the female legs.

Whats changed is that science has come along and taken it upon itself to make the Bible a "laughing stock" only believed by "gullible fools". The Bible isnt literal, its metaphorical. Which is why its so open to interpretation.
It is simply a collection of the oldest "wisdoms"(texts) compiled into a book.

All I was saying is that as take up in the religion diminishes, so does knowledge of those ancient moral and human lessons written within.
Just because the wisdom was old, that doesnt make it any less wise.

I think that not even that long ago(50 yrs) many more people took heed of the bibles morals in the way they lived their lives than they do today. And please Im sure I dont have to provide any evidence for that as its plainly evident.

Ultimately... Does religion make people try to be better people? YES UNDOUBTEDLY.
Does it make ALL people try to be better people? Of course not, what does?
Does it make some people judgemental and self important? Without a doubt.

The morals remain the same, what people do with it is up to them.

yes, sure, you are right, religion did some good to people. Except for those who were killed for offending it, or had a different religion, or...
And there was this other kind of humans, who used religion for they own good

Not to kill is actually a logic thought and not some law from above.
You don't need religion this days to be a good human... or ever needed!!

Religion is just slavery.

I know your meanings are good, so are mine. I don't kill, robber or rape. I'm not doing it because of my religion I haven't.

I say, abandon religion, be free....

reply to post by undo


lol,,
maybe Paul needed ""Diversity Training"",,sorry ... "")

reply to post by SuperFrog


Do you have something against using the word "the"?

PollyPeptide
It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Proofs are examples of deductive reasoning and are distinguished from inductive or empirical arguments; a proof must demonstrate that a statement is always true (occasionally by listing all possible cases and showing that it holds in each), rather than enumerate many confirmatory cases. An unproven statement that is believed true is known as a conjecture.

- Wikipedia

So if Science knows it is wrong, and Religion is nothing but conjecture; the logical conclusion is that EVERYONE INVOLVED IS WRONG.

and so then, who is right?
be honest. i'm not easily fooled.

PollyPeptide
It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Neither of these totalities are true. Science describes the universe around us, eventually we will get to a point where we know enough about the universe that our science will be correct and cannot be proved wrong. Religion can be proved right, all it needs to do is produce an act of the divine. Just because one is unlikely to show up doesn't mean it cannot be proven correct.

undo
well paul is not my favorite biblical writer, sorry to say. he also thought women should be silent in the church, even though jesus took a woman right up front in the synagogue and had her speak to the men who were furious that he had done so. the first people to proclaim the gospel, were women. jesus was waaaay ahead of his time. it is not my fault, or his, that paul had his own ideas about such things.

Regardless of who said it or not, it is biblical text and therefore upheld religiously. As I've demonstrated with my followup post about the bible passage you quoted, this passage is the only one in the New Testament that speaks about slavery. It doesn't exactly denounce it either.

Krazysh0t

PollyPeptide
It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Neither of these totalities are true. Science describes the universe around us, eventually we will get to a point where we know enough about the universe that our science will be correct and cannot be proved wrong. Religion can be proved right, all it needs to do is produce an act of the divine. Just because one is unlikely to show up doesn't mean it cannot be proven correct.

what if the divine is related to this
listen very carefully so you grasp the full meaning of what he's saying

KrzYma

Not to kill is actually a logic thought and not some law from above.
You don't need religion this days to be a good human... or ever needed!!

Religion is just slavery.

I know your meanings are good, so are mine. I don't kill, robber or rape. I'm not doing it because of my religion I haven't.

I say, abandon religion, be free....

I agree with you, like every "great idea" in history, a few with power have used it to keep their power.
Abandon religion, but dont abandon doing the right thing. Liberty for all, as long as that liberty doesnt infringe the liberty of others. Liberty under a fair and just legal system, without corruption and human greed, and that has nothing to do with religion.

People dont NEED religion to stay on the straight and narrow, but it helps.
You dont need to go to church and listen to a priest telling you his interpretation of the bible to hear the stories.
You just need to pick it up and read it and make of it what you will.

The sad thing is, as long as there is man, there is greed and corruption. Religion has nothing to do with that.

undo

PollyPeptide
It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Proofs are examples of deductive reasoning and are distinguished from inductive or empirical arguments; a proof must demonstrate that a statement is always true (occasionally by listing all possible cases and showing that it holds in each), rather than enumerate many confirmatory cases. An unproven statement that is believed true is known as a conjecture.

- Wikipedia

So if Science knows it is wrong, and Religion is nothing but conjecture; the logical conclusion is that EVERYONE INVOLVED IS WRONG.

and so then, who is right?
be honest. i'm not easily fooled.

Nobody?

reply to post by undo


I can't watch videos at work, so I won't be able to listen at all carefully or not.

undo

Krazysh0t

PollyPeptide
It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Neither of these totalities are true. Science describes the universe around us, eventually we will get to a point where we know enough about the universe that our science will be correct and cannot be proved wrong. Religion can be proved right, all it needs to do is produce an act of the divine. Just because one is unlikely to show up doesn't mean it cannot be proven correct.

what if the divine is related to this
listen very carefully so you grasp the full meaning of what he's saying

If you don't mind, I will create a new thread about this video ?

I love to brake his argumentation apart

may take me some time but please let us talk about it after I've created the new thread.
(I will edit this and tell you the name of my thread later)

did it
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Krazysh0t
reply to post by undo

 

I can't watch videos at work, so I won't be able to listen at all carefully or not.

okay.

it's the double slit experiment.
you're familar with it?
it was discovered that the detector wasn't solidying the photon probability wave into photon particles
but the conscious action of the detector recording the data.

and god said, let there be light, and there was light.

undo

PollyPeptide
It is important to note that the fundamental principle behind science is that IT CAN ALWAYS BE PROVED WRONG. That, right there clearly states that science KNOWS it's wrong. So to say science is right, goes against science. On the other hand, Religion CAN NEVER BE PROVED RIGHT.

Proofs are examples of deductive reasoning and are distinguished from inductive or empirical arguments; a proof must demonstrate that a statement is always true (occasionally by listing all possible cases and showing that it holds in each), rather than enumerate many confirmatory cases. An unproven statement that is believed true is known as a conjecture.

- Wikipedia

So if Science knows it is wrong, and Religion is nothing but conjecture; the logical conclusion is that EVERYONE INVOLVED IS WRONG.

and so then, who is right?
be honest. i'm not easily fooled.

No one is right, that's my point. No one has ever been right. Science has NEVER been 100% correct, which means it isn't right, and Religion can't provide the proof it needs to show that it is 100% correct. If NO ONE can provide ABOLUTE PROOF, then NO ONE IS RIGHT!

And we will never get absolute proof. I'm wrong. You are wrong. Niel Degrass Tyson is wrong. Einstein was wrong. The Pope, he's wrong too. You're kids, their friends, your neighbors... Face it, NO one knows wtf is really going on. That's why we continue to observe.

reply to post by undo


Yes I am, though I'm not seeing it. Maybe I need to watch the video to get his reasoning. It's fine though, I never tried to imply that science and religion are mutually exclusive. There could very well be a creator who made the universe and everything in it, but the likely answer as to how is science. He is using the laws and theories of science to develop the universe. This doesn't sit well with religious people because it further breaks holes in their idea that the universe was created for mankind. Like that even makes sense, create an infinite universe with all this cool stuff and stick the sole point of creating said universe on a tiny rock in the backwaters of some inconsequential galaxy. If God exists, I'm sure He can't be bothered to meddle in our (humankind's) day to day happenings and He effects things on a universal scale.