30,000 year-old artifacts in Brazil show humans in Americas millennia before previously thought

Brasília (AFP) - It's no secret humans have been having sex for millennia -- but recently discovered cave art suggests they were doing it in the Americas much earlier than many archeologists believed.

A new exhibit in Brazil showcases artifacts dating as far back as 30,000 years ago -- throwing a wrench in the commonly held theory humans first crossed to the Americas from Asia a mere 12,000 years ago.

The claim made by these archaeologists have met with some skepticism. The Brazilian archaeologist is Niède Guidon, (wikipedia), and the debate is over whether her findings are artifacts or 'geofacts' (a natural formation). One thing is certain this site is possibly the largest source of ancient cave art in the Americas.

ETA: link to source:
Prehistoric Brazil artifacts star in exhibit, spark debate
30,000 year old Brazilian artifacts throw wrench in theory humans first arrived in Americas 12,000 years ago

I was just commenting on another thread how there is still much to unravel about our ancient past. It would not surprise me at all if this is correct.

I do have to say, I am curious as to how accurate dating these paintings actually are. I would imagine the soil around it is dated but there may be a way to date the paint itself. Thanks for posting!

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Looks like a few dancing rugs, one of which has a very hairy right armpit.

Either way, the history books need to be revised.

Is there a link to the original article and does it have photographs of the artifacts in question?

The cave paintings look good, but it would be interesting to see the artifacts, so we can make an informed opinion.

ETA:- Thanks for adding the links O.P - Great examples of cave paintings, but alas no artifacts. Very interesting though!!

Thanks for the thread and great catch! I'm just hearing some of this now in anthropolgy and elsewhere. It's amazing ... I'd been raised to believe Native American 'indians' were the first to be here because nothing showed otherwise. As if the whole planet had thousands upon thousands of years of unbroken history, right into South America ...but across the eons, no one ventured to the big hole in the map?

Now I read and learn more like what you share here and look around my homeland...with new eyes. Yes, the last ice age and glacial period pretty well wiped the surface clean of much of anything to see.....but indeed.. there is subsurface and they're finding what one might expect, if habitation did date much much further back.

Very exciting times in some fields! The new saying isn't 'Go West, young man!' it's 'Go Down!'...in some places anyway. (thumbsup)

reply to post by Cobaltic1978


Edited my post to add source links...

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

Nice grab, though I take some exception to the following statement:

A new exhibit in Brazil showcases artifacts dating as far back as 30,000 years ago -- throwing a wrench in the commonly held theory humans first crossed to the Americas from Asia a mere 12,000 years ago.

Fact is, this theory is evolving by the day. Chatter around Monte Verde has been talking 40KYA for some time now, as well. So much for suppression of challenges to the paradigm.

S&F4U!

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


True...

Even when we were digging at Black Water draw with a date of 10k we thought that 30k would eventually be the benchmark for man in the New World. Now even that is being challenged.

Blackmarketeer
[

Yep looking more and more like Verde was right

Anyone for 35,000?

S&F..good article.

I still think that modern humans could have been out of Americas, either north or south. Out of Africa does not sound right, and because I have some neanderthal genetics in me it means that I am not all modern human. I have ancestors going back possibly a million or more years.

At about 25 miles migration per generation if humans were in south america 30,000 bp and came across alaska they would have first entered alaska around 50.000 years ago.

This is unless they came by sea from Europe like the Clovis theory and were boat people as many Clovis sites are near large bodies of water.

users.idworld.net...

It always boils down to the same problem for me when it comes to dating how long man was here or there. Do I honestly accept that with the brain capacity homo sapiens has, did we/she etc simply sit in a cave and stay put for literally tens of thousands of years and the answer is No. We know Neanderthal travelled long distances and certainly homo sapiens travelled over water, the Ancient Indians claim to have flown.

I watched a programme on the Polynesians and their sea faring skills. These people were so intuned with the oceans that they could tell just by the way the water lapped onto their canoes if there was land beyond the horizon.

I think its incredibly difficult for us to even imagine how they travelled simply because today we get into a car, plane or boat etc and we are now totally removed from the skills needed to navigate that they had - I simply plug into satnav if I need to. I am so dependant on technology that my natural earth skills are probably lost to me and would have to be relearned if that was even possible. The only thing is that they and we share the same brain - or at least that's what the books tell us.

I dont question the length of history ancient humans inhabited the new world but its just that deciding on a new date they go back to shouldnt have to rely on one carbon dating test for indeed older matter could have soiled/contaminated the medium inscribed on.

BBC did a program on the subject

"Ancient Voices : tracing the First Americans"

It was speculated that the first settlers of the Americas would have been the Aborigines from Australasia.

Shiloh7
It always boils down to the same problem for me when it comes to dating how long man was here or there. Do I honestly accept that with the brain capacity homo sapiens has, did we/she etc simply sit in a cave and stay put for literally tens of thousands of years and the answer is No. We know Neanderthal travelled long distances and certainly homo sapiens travelled over water, the Ancient Indians claim to have flown.

I watched a programme on the Polynesians and their sea faring skills. These people were so intuned with the oceans that they could tell just by the way the water lapped onto their canoes if there was land beyond the horizon.

I think its incredibly difficult for us to even imagine how they travelled simply because today we get into a car, plane or boat etc and we are now totally removed from the skills needed to navigate that they had - I simply plug into satnav if I need to. I am so dependant on technology that my natural earth skills are probably lost to me and would have to be relearned if that was even possible. The only thing is that they and we share the same brain - or at least that's what the books tell us.

Then why did HG'ers exist - and still do - into the modern era?

reply to post by Hanslune


Sorry you've lost me HG's?

Shiloh7
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Sorry you've lost me HG's?

Hunter gatherers.

reply to post by Hanslune


I expect its a matter of personal choice. If you wish to maintain a tribal life living off the land hunting and gathering without farming then its your choice. Also its only possible to do this in areas where the land is not claimed by some landowner.

People have migrated into cities and today many migrate out lookinbg for a different kind of life, man is adaptable and not all men want the same kind of life.

If you look at life after some kind of huge catastrophy, such as prolonged vulcanic eruption over vast populated areas, this would affect our weather, soil and water then people would likely after a time have to become hunters and gatherers to survive.

Shiloh7
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I expect its a matter of personal choice. If you wish to maintain a tribal life living off the land hunting and gathering without farming then its your choice. Also its only possible to do this in areas where the land is not claimed by some landowner.

People have migrated into cities and today many migrate out lookinbg for a different kind of life, man is adaptable and not all men want the same kind of life.

If you look at life after some kind of huge catastrophy, such as prolonged vulcanic eruption over vast populated areas, this would affect our weather, soil and water then people would likely after a time have to become hunters and gatherers to survive.

Personally, I always figured that the fall of the Mississippian culture was based upon Joe Sixpack deciding that life was better in the bountiful woods than taking crap from the self-appointed higher-ups.

JohnnyCanuck

Personally, I always figured that the fall of the Mississippian culture was based upon Joe Sixpack deciding that life was better in the bountiful woods than taking crap from the self-appointed higher-ups.

Most probably

The Greek city states use to send out colonies containing their malcontents.

If you look at the histories of nomadic, semi-nomadic and settled people they tend to break up or parties leave them to start their own clans or sub-tribes on regular basis, America is a result of such a desire to break away, some cultures suffer or gain from this more than others.

Some HG and other groups have probably remained culturally the same for thousands of years, if not tens of thousands.