The 28th Amendment...I think it's Time

Ok, I got the idea from a petition sent to Congress. But I have some additions.

1. Congress shall exempt themselves from no law.

My additions:

2. Congress must remove twenty laws for each new law.

3. No elected member of Government shall serve more than two terms.

4. All elected officials will be unpaid for their service.

5. Immediate removal of Electoral College and the two party system.

6. America will pay it's bills.

7. No agency will be funded to spy on Citizens.

These are my suggestions. I would love to hear yours.

Or you could tell me why my Amendments will not work.

That would work if we lived in fantasy land, but there is no way that amendment would ever get ratified in the real world.

rangerdanger
That would work if we lived in fantasy land, but there is no way that amendment would ever get ratified in the real world.

I was opening it for discussion.

I really wasn't planning on introducing a Bill.

I already feel like I live in Fantasyland.

reply to post by whyamIhere

The problem is that they are ignoring all of the amendments anyway.

The only solution is to eliminate most official power and officials. Then we can begin the laborious process of removing most laws and ultimately making lawmaking as difficult as possible.

Good ideas and laudable goals. We don't actually need to change the constitution to achieve them, we just need to start making an effort locally to begin the process of paring back excessive government. Once we get to each of our state legislatures, we can start thinking about how to realistically minimize federal power. This has to be en masse but, leaderless. Focused but uncoordinated.

reply to post by greencmp


Great Ideas...

A bottom up approach may work.

Because what we are doing now is not working.

reply to post by greencmp

I read your post and applauded. Then I read it again.

I completely agree that the problem stems from too much government power. The reason corporations and government have corrupted each other is because the government has the power to do so many favors for business that it is a wise investment for a business to try to get those favors, through whatever means.

Actually, the same thing applies to votes. The government has the power to grant money and favors to particular groups, thereby buying it's votes.

The only aspect I'm not entirely clear on is starting at the bottom and working up. In my fantasy land the vast majority of governmental power would be at the state level and below. By reducing the power of cities and counties would we be proportionately strengthening the federal government?

I think I may have missed your point, but if we can't weaken the federal government would a possible solution be to strengthen the states until they can overrule the Feds?

With respect,
Charles1952

Maybe it's time to get out the geeoteens the gubermint bought!

Like the French did!

charles1952
reply to post by greencmp

 

I read your post and applauded. Then I read it again.

I completely agree that the problem stems from too much government power. The reason corporations and government have corrupted each other is because the government has the power to do so many favors for business that it is a wise investment for a business to try to get those favors, through whatever means.

Actually, the same thing applies to votes. The government has the power to grant money and favors to particular groups, thereby buying it's votes.

The only aspect I'm not entirely clear on is starting at the bottom and working up. In my fantasy land the vast majority of governmental power would be at the state level and below. By reducing the power of cities and counties would we be proportionately strengthening the federal government?

I think I may have missed your point, but if we can't weaken the federal government would a possible solution be to strengthen the states until they can overrule the Feds?

With respect,
Charles1952

This is a very good question and it speaks to your full understanding of what I am proposing.

Yes, in principal it does weaken our local governments but, this is not as detrimental as you might expect.

It is not as though the power that each local district holds is enough to keep it's superior region in check so maintaining them for that reason alone does not make sense.

It is critical that this be a process and that it not ever be considered complete. If each town can begin the unfolding of austerity while incorporating sympathetic informed former officeholders as volunteer consultants, we may continue the advancement in a measured and unstoppable way.

If this is widespread and unorganized it will succeed. The tipping point will be when this austerity movement reaches our state legislatures. At that moment, it is my expectation that the federal government will be both physically unable and politically incapable of heading off it's imminent minimization.

I do not see any other way to proceed that is both possible and peaceful.

reply to post by greencmp

Dear greencmp,

Thank you and please accept my salute.

One other thing which I had forgotten, and which strengthens your point, is the promotion of representatives. By that I mean, that presidents were often governors, or federal representatives. Those individuals were often state office holders, or local congressmen. So by electing those at lower levels who support liberty, the pipeline fills with suitable candidates for higher office.

It will take time, but as you say, it is a possible solution. I hope we have enough time, but if there isn't that will mean that the country will have fallen and we'll be rebuilding from ashes anyway.

Good proposal. Thank you.

With respect,
Charles1952

I'd add that when you enter public office all you and your immediate family's holdings are liquidated into cash except enough to provide shelter for them and at the end of your term(s) you get back the value of your "investment" so its in your interest to make sure the economy always improves or you'll be living in a cardboard box at the end of your term as if the economy tanks so does your "investment".....nothing motivates a person like their own personal money being at stake

charles1952
reply to post by greencmp

 

Dear greencmp,

Thank you and please accept my salute.

One other thing which I had forgotten, and which strengthens your point, is the promotion of representatives. By that I mean, that presidents were often governors, or federal representatives. Those individuals were often state office holders, or local congressmen. So by electing those at lower levels who support liberty, the pipeline fills with suitable candidates for higher office.

It will take time, but as you say, it is a possible solution. I hope we have enough time, but if there isn't that will mean that the country will have fallen and we'll be rebuilding from ashes anyway.

Good proposal. Thank you.

With respect,
Charles1952

That is another great feature of the bottom up approach.

While it always seems to be nigh the end, we always seem to survive. This situation is no different, if anything I believe that coming so close to the edge will provide the necessary motivation for us to proceed. What else are we going to do during this artificial recession anyway, right?

Our problem, people who believe in liberty, is that law and politics itself is anathema to our way of life and is to be avoided unless we have no other solution. I think we can agree that we have no other solution so, endless hours of chipping away in town meetings, arranging recall elections and filing suits is truly an irritating requirement but, entirely possible and undeniably necessary.

God speed, brave litigant!

Maxatoria
I'd add that when you enter public office all you and your immediate family's holdings are liquidated into cash except enough to provide shelter for them and at the end of your term(s) you get back the value of your "investment" so its in your interest to make sure the economy always improves or you'll be living in a cardboard box at the end of your term as if the economy tanks so does your "investment".....nothing motivates a person like their own personal money being at stake

The beauty of what I am suggesting is that, by removing the official powers themselves before removing the officeholders, we simultaneously protect against corruption and cronyism since no such authority will exist to misuse. Once that goal is achieved there is little point in maintaining those official positions.

The only guarantee of official solicitude is incapability.

Thank you for the great additions to this thread.

I have a question on the bottom up approach.

If we were going to initiate this system, what is the first step?

whyamIhere
Thank you for the great additions to this thread.

I have a question on the bottom up approach.

If we were going to initiate this system, what is the first step?

Basically, at whatever level you currently have influence over.

If you are a homeowner, it would start with your town hall and property tax administrators or departments of public works. There are no sacrosanct offices that should avoid consideration.

If you have children, your public school administrators and teacher's unions. Don't worry about having good teachers, they will always teach. Worry about the thuggery of the unions themselves as that is their most infamous MO. Thankfully teacher's unions are still the least violent of the lot.

As an interested single renting citizen, you can assist your neighbors with their attempts and just be another body at the town hall meetings to stand in solidarity.

1st Protects freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of the press, as well as the right to assemble, right to protest, and petition the government September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

2nd Protects the right to bear arms September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

3rd Prohibits the forced quartering of soldiers during peacetime September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

4th Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and sets out requirements for search warrants based on probable cause as determined by a neutral judge or magistrate September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

5th Sets out rules for indictment by grand jury and eminent domain, protects the right to due process, and prohibits self-incrimination and double jeopardy September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

6th Protects the right to a fair and speedy public trial by jury, including the rights to be notified of the accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

7th Provides for the right to trial by jury in certain civil cases, according to common law September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

8th Prohibits excessive fines and excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

9th Protects rights not enumerated in the constitution September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

10th Limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text

11th Makes states immune from suits from out-of-state citizens and foreigners not living within the state borders; lays the foundation for sovereign immunity March 4, 1794 February 7, 1795 Full text

12th Revises presidential election procedures December 9, 1803 June 15, 1804 Full text

13th Abolishes slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime January 31, 1865 December 6, 1865 Full text

14th Defines citizenship, contains the Privileges or Immunities Clause, the Due Process Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, and deals with post-Civil War issues June 13, 1866 July 9, 1868 Full text

15th Prohibits the denial of suffrage based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude February 26, 1869 February 3, 1870 Full text

16th Allows the federal government to collect income tax July 12, 1909 February 3, 1913 Full text

17th Establishes the direct election of United States Senators by popular vote May 13, 1912 April 8, 1913 Full text

18th Establishes prohibition of alcohol (repealed by Twenty-first Amendment) December 18, 1917 January 16, 1919 Full text

19th Establishes women's suffrage June 4, 1919 August 18, 1920 Full text

20th Fixes the dates of term commencements for Congress (January 3) and the President (January 20); known as the "lame duck amendment" March 2, 1932 January 23, 1933 Full text

21st Repeals the Eighteenth Amendment and prohibits violations of state laws regarding alcohol February 20, 1933 December 5, 1933 Full text

22nd Limits the number of times that a person can be elected president: a person cannot be elected president more than twice, and a person who has served more than two years of a term to which someone else was elected cannot be elected more than once March 24, 1947 February 27, 1951 Full text

23rd Provides for representation of Washington, D.C., in the Electoral College June 16, 1960 March 29, 1961 Full text

24th Prohibits the revocation of voting rights due to the non-payment of poll taxes September 14, 1962 January 23, 1964 Full text

25th Codifies the Tyler Precedent; defines the process of presidential succession July 6, 1965 February 10, 1967 Full text

26th Establishes the right to vote for those age 18 years or older March 23, 1971 July 1, 1971 Full text

27th Prevents laws affecting Congressional salary from taking effect until after the next election of the representatives. September 25, 1789 May 7, 1992[1] Full text







i think its time for them all im tired of one by one being taken away

reply to post by whyamIhere


1. No more Ammendments that Conflict with the first 22 Ammendments

reply to post by whyamIhere

I wrote a (unpublished) novel that ended up beautifully mirroring those politics (apparently we share a brain. Apparently you've had it all this time. That explains so much).

I realized after the fact that this is probably why the novel was a post-post apocalyptic novel (I don't even like that genre, it was a real anomaly that 'wrote itself'). Because apparently on some level, some part of me felt the only way such hope could be present is if we burned it down and started over.

Actually the story was primarily about a) a culture with a big focus on men as the cornerstone of family, and young men are assigned a jyra (an older consort) at 17, and b) a young man who is a soldier and his life events. It just so happened to be in that particular world (the Ozarks, actually) and timeframe (94 years after what they call Night).

I thought later, though, that it probably did sum up some tragic irony that I cannot even write fiction about a better world without killing 2/3 of it off first apparently.

On the bright side, my disney-girl pollyannic tendencies make it the most cheerful post-apocalyptic novel ever LOL. There's probably something wrong with that...

Any person holding an office title found guilty of corruption or using the office to get rich should be put to death including police officers !!!

whyamIhere
Ok, I got the idea from a petition sent to Congress. But I have some additions.

1. Congress shall exempt themselves from no law.

My additions:

2. Congress must remove twenty laws for each new law.

3. No elected member of Government shall serve more than two terms.

4. All elected officials will be unpaid for their service.

5. Immediate removal of Electoral College and the two party system.

6. America will pay it's bills.

7. No agency will be funded to spy on Citizens.

These are my suggestions. I would love to hear yours.

Or you could tell me why my Amendments will not work.

Your laws make the problem of politicians selling out to corporations 7000 times worse.

Lets start with term limits, if a politician cannot stay in congress as a career they're going to use their time to set up a job afterwards. Give contracts to a company, preferential treatment, get a nice job with them when you leave office. This is made even worse by the idea of congress being unpaid. People have to support themselves, if their job isn't supporting them they're going to take bribes left and right just for basic sustenance.

We can disagree on the Electoral College, I happen to think it's a good system. It and the two party system are separate issues though. We cannot have a law abolishing a two party system because that will just lead to a one party or three party system. In order to actually fix this we need campaign finance reform that can give a voice to smaller parties. The issue here though is that the media is in the pocket of the two major parties. I don't know the solution to this problem.

Not spying on citizens doesn't matter. The UK will just spy on us and give us the data instead.

If you want actual congressional reform I'll point you to my idea. It wasn't popular but it's the sort of reform that would actually work. Congress will never vote against itself and making draconian laws doesn't work out, either against the public or against the government.

Do away with money altogether!

With the internet, Humanity can become Hive like!

Does a Hive use money?