BREAKING NEWS: House votes to defund Obamacare

matafuchs
Why a facade? Now, call you Senators and tell them how to vote. That is what they are there for..not special interests but YOU...the American People. If they do not vote the correct way them vote them out!

Now, now, now....slow down there. This isn't any place for logic, after all.

EarthCitizen07
reply to post by AlienScience

 

Why should nationalised healthcare be mandatory for everyone? If someone has been insured by private firms and they want to continue being insured that way, then why should the government extort you to buy their insurance?

In other words either prove you are insured or buy our insurance. Isnt this the way it works in most countries?

And there is no such thing as 100% coverage. If there is the cost is astronomical and unaffordable.

There is no such thing as "government insurance" in the ACA.

As close as you can get to that is expanded medicare, which is still run through private insurance companies.

In other countries, intelligent countries, there is no concept of "insurance"...private or government. Your healthcare is simply paid for through taxes.

beezzer
reply to post by AlienScience

 

No pre-existing conditions.

I love that one.

I'm going to buy a house, burn it down, then get home-owners insurance!

lolz

This ACA-TAX is just a precursor to a complete government take-over, single-payer style system.

ACA, as it stands, will break the current system, create a Cloward-Piven Scenario, and destroy our already weakened economy.

But cheer the death, the demise of America. Cheer the fundamental transformation of a once great nation. Enjoy your "free" stuff while it lasts.

(rolling eyes)

Your analogy isn't exactly correct.

How about you own a house, you have had home insurance the entire time and had one claim. Then you had some financial problems, so you had to drop your home insurance for a month...and now you can't get covered unless you pay astronomical premiums because of your homes "pre-existing condition"...and even if you do get coverage, they may not deny future claims because they will somehow link your current issue with your "pre-existing condition".

And yes, people will abuse the system...that is what the penalty is for.

And yes, single payer is the end goal...and it will eventually be reality. The ACA will bridge the gap between then and now. It will save some kids, low income people, and people with pre-existing conditions (that you so happily mock). There is no denying that our private insurance system is not sustainable, in any way, the ACA is just making it so we don't live in a society where rich people get healthcare and poor people die until we can get a modern single payer system.

I will cheer that America is moving forward instead of staying locked into their antiquated system. And I'm sorry to disappoint, but I don't enjoy any "free stuff"...sorry I don't fit your pre-conceived mold of who your "enemy" is...you shouldn't let Right Wing media form your opinions of people who have different opinions than you do.

reply to post by Wiz4769


Thank god! I hope it tanks further. In light of prism/Utah ocare seems like it has the potential to become an Orwellian nightmare.

AlienScience
the ACA is just making it so we don't live in a society where rich people get healthcare and poor people die until we can get a modern single payer system.

I'll bet the farm that you'll be wrong about this one. Dead wrong.

We will live in that society. For how long, is the question

AlienScience

There is no such thing as "government insurance" in the ACA.

As close as you can get to that is expanded medicare, which is still run through private insurance companies.

In other countries, intelligent countries, there is no concept of "insurance"...private or government. Your healthcare is simply paid for through taxes.

Obamacare is not mandated national healthcare where both the employer and employee share the cost?

It most definitely is insurance!

And there is no such thing as expanded medicare. Maybe you meant medicaid which comes at additional cost.

Yes it is taxation of sorts. Social Security(which compromises of medicare) resembles ACA.

What I dont get is IF they plan to do away with medicare and medicaid once ACA becomes enacted and standardised. Medicare and Medicaid would be redundant, ie serve no purpose.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


There is no government insurance plan nor government sponsored insurance plan.

There is private insurance that the government may provided individuals with subsidies to purchase if they qualify.

I'll say it again just to be clear, There is no government insurance plan.

Once again we know there needs to be a health care reform, we are saying that this is not the answer...your comparing other countries is not the same, none of those countries has the number of people that the US has. The same plan will not work.

So hopefully they will see this plan sucks and come up with one that will work better for us. Its not like we must accept the only option they put out there, thats why there are options...they need to do their job and come up with a good workable plan.

They need to let the Senate vote. If they vote for it then so be it....but they should get the chance to vote. They will vote it away if they want to keep their jobs.

This is not free or affordable healthcare. A HUGE majority of the people who will be getting it for free or very cheaply were already getting it for free.
It's being payed for on the backs of the middle class who are already suffering as is. Most of their rates are going up, the only places they have gone down are in ther few states whose insurance prices were through the roof before, like NY.
This is just a ruse to divide the middle class from the rich even further.So all that exists in the end is the poor and the rich.

The American dream no longer exists.....it's all about survival now.

AlienScience
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Because it isn't worthy of a vote, it is pure party politics. This is all the Republican controlled house has down...pass partisan bills that aren't allowed through committee or allowed to have amendments submitted to them by anyone (so democrats have zero say) and then pass the bill on pure party lines (not a single democrat voted for this in the house).

Also, to defund the ACA at this point without having something to replace it is a horrible idea. Defunding doesn't remove the laws or regulations, all it does is remove the assistance given to low income people to help them purchase the mandated insurance. Without the assistance, they will all still be fined because the law is still law. Also, it would hurt hospitals because they wouldn't be getting assistance either.

If they think the goal is to make the law unenforceable, then what they will be doing is putting a lot of people with pre-existing conditions in a horrible situation as they will all be dropped immediately from their policies and then never be able to get new policies. Kids who are currently benefiting from the ACA and getting desperately needed treatment will be turned away and left to die because insurance companies are no longer forced to cover them.

The bottom line is that Republicans trying to defund the ACA is an immature and cowardly act. If they are actually serious about a solution, don't vote to repeal it or defund it...they should come up with their own replacement plan and vote to pass that.

Since they aren't putting forth a replacement bill, and only voting over and over on repealing and defunding, you can tell they aren't serious and just playing partisan/election politics.

But you guys go ahead and continue to cheer them on.

Though I agree with the sentiment that this is party line BS, I would have to ask why they should replace it at all? Both parties answer to Big Pharma, after all. I believe that the government should not mandate insurance, or even be involved in the topic. The truth is that the insurance companies and Big Pharma are the true enemies to the public. They make it hard for people of low or no income to receive health care. It's a nightmare situation to be sure, but the government getting involved has made it worse. Since ACA was activated, my wife's birth control and nose spray DOUBLED in price. DOUBLED! Now that is NOT what I call "Affordable health care for all!" If the government really wants to help, they should put the screws to the aforementioned entities.

I also agree that the middle class is being squeezed to death. We are "middle class" and we can't justify barely anything anymore. We don't have much in the way of expendable income, much less for pricey drugs or doctor's visits!

How anyone thinks ACA or name I like, Obama Care, will work is beyond me in imagination or possibly delusion. Adding another layer of bureaucracy that produces no medical benefit to the patient onto a system already burdened by bureaucracy cost of private insurance companies who also provide no productive medical benefit make no sense whatsoever.

Doctor Refuses Insurance, Cuts bill 50%

Before, Ciampi charged $160 for an office visit with an existing patient facing one or more complicated health problems. Now, he charges $75.

That's less than most peoples cable or smart phone bills!

Cash and Carry Surgery

The Reasontv video, shown at the Capitol briefing, highlighted some of the most dramatic price differentials, including for a “complex bilateral sinus procedure.” At the Surgery Center, the all-inclusive price is $5,885. At nearby Integris Hospital the price in 2010 was $33,505 – but that did not include either the surgeon’s or the anesthesiologist’s fees.

A good example of what could be done without the overburden of bureaucracy - sure some insurance involvement is needed as not everyone has $5000 plus cash lying around. Its perfect use of "catastrophic" insurance for these procedures.

I feel most have cell phones and cable TV along with internet service and a plethora of other expenditures that they might deem "necessary" but when these take priority over ones healthcare or where they want "free" care provided by taxpayer and government behemoth even though they have all the accouterments of modern society, its a ridiculous expectation and a great demonstration of skewed priorities.

I think many solutions are left out of the discussion, namely gutting all the laws and codes protecting the insurance racket from any meaningful competition. Tort Reform for medical practices (loser pays), Enabling private individuals to form medical co-ops, selling insurance across state lines, forming "free" clinics located in county seats. probably many more but the idea is there is lots to do besides guarantee more government employment, pensions and bureaucracy while adding nothing to actual medical care except higher costs.

The peoples congress has voted within their Constitutional bounds as the body that determines spending. The Senate should take an up/down vote which is their job after-all - if the want to play footsie then yes this will go to committee where they will play politics and strip amendments and send back to the peoples house, all the while playing the blame game. If they took an honest vote in the Senate I might feel otherwise - avoidance is not deliberating merits nor does it construe anything but kick the can.

AlienScience
Also, to defund the ACA at this point without having something to replace it is a horrible idea.

Oh?

Its called Private Practice, it STILL exists.

reply to post by Wiz4769


Well they do seem to look like doing something, but rest assure that the big insurance mobsters are paying the whores in congress to stop any changes.

Now States are trying on their own to stop the implementation, I know because here in GA they are working on it and so in Florida.

With so many states facing deficits the expansion of the Medicaid will be very costly to the state tax payers even with Obama offering incentives, because the bill will be passed to the those that pay taxes still, those that do not pay taxes do not have a worry in the world.

AlienScience
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

 

Because it isn't worthy of a vote, it is pure party politics. This is all the Republican controlled house has down...pass partisan bills that aren't allowed through committee or allowed to have amendments submitted to them by anyone (so democrats have zero say) and then pass the bill on pure party lines (not a single democrat voted for this in the house).

Also, to defund the ACA at this point without having something to replace it is a horrible idea. Defunding doesn't remove the laws or regulations, all it does is remove the assistance given to low income people to help them purchase the mandated insurance. Without the assistance, they will all still be fined because the law is still law. Also, it would hurt hospitals because they wouldn't be getting assistance either.

If they think the goal is to make the law unenforceable, then what they will be doing is putting a lot of people with pre-existing conditions in a horrible situation as they will all be dropped immediately from their policies and then never be able to get new policies. Kids who are currently benefiting from the ACA and getting desperately needed treatment will be turned away and left to die because insurance companies are no longer forced to cover them.

The bottom line is that Republicans trying to defund the ACA is an immature and cowardly act. If they are actually serious about a solution, don't vote to repeal it or defund it...they should come up with their own replacement plan and vote to pass that.

Since they aren't putting forth a replacement bill, and only voting over and over on repealing and defunding, you can tell they aren't serious and just playing partisan/election politics.

But you guys go ahead and continue to cheer them on.

I have a replacement pan....how about not "requiring" people to purchase a service they don't need,for example health insurance.
I can not afford to fork out to pay this retarded crap....let me die of natural causes.

What's better, to die happy, of natural causes, or die broke and unhappy, while being compliant with the law?

Forcing people to buy insurance is EFFING stupid, everyone who can afford it has it already, making a law requiring people to buy it does not make it any more possible for them.

Your an elitist fool if you think requiring me to purchase something I cannot afford to buy, makes it any more possible for me to shell out the money for it.

If this idiotic "philosophy" worked, why not just pass a law requiring everyone to make $80,000 a year minimum, then they would already have the insurance to begin with.


Lets see here....EU basically universal health care for everyone, not one single individual mandate to buy it.....Canada same thing, no individual mandate, Russia, same thing, no mandate..............How many countries you want me to name here?

Many countries have actual "universal health care", there is only one that is now requiring their citizens to buy it "or else".......


This entire debate is based in idiocy, if you cant see that, well I submit your views are based in the afore mentioned idiotic debate.

EarthCitizen07
I like mandatory healthcare just like I like mandatory car insurance. Too many low income people cannot afford private insurance and there also careless wealthy people who spend their money elsewhere and become a burden to the state welfare system that ends up picking the tab. No hospital can refuse you treatment but then they either take you to court to collect or they pass the buck to state welfare.

I am not sure I like obamacare the way it was written though, and I also hate the timing of it. They couldnt have picked a worst time to introduce nationlised healthcare when small and medium sized business is struggling to survive. A bigger payroll is one more burden for them. At some point the camels back breaks and they go out of business. This is the reason they HAVE to hire illegals in many cases.

In other words I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. Yes its necessary but not now and not in this form.

This IS NOT "nationalized health care" this is the health care version of a shotgun wedding. A very huge difference.

AlienScience
reply to post by Wiz4769

 

Do you understand the changes the ACA will make?

From your paranoid ranting, I would bet you don't. Do you still believe in death panels and free abortions for everyone? Do you still believe healthcare costs are rising even though there have been many reports of cots going down?

There is no legislation ever in the history of mankind that is going to provide 100% benefit with zero downsides for everyone...it is simply impossible.

No pre-existing conditions, no denying children, and capping out of pocket expenses are alone worth the entire legislation. But people need to remember that non of these are possible unless we have close to 100% coverage. If people continue to go without insurance and end up going into the ER for treatment that the hospital has to write off, non of this works.

So please inform me, what does the ACA change that you are dreading?

Glad your sitting "high on the hog", but here is a news flash for you.....MOST FOLKS ARE POOR!!!!!!

Over half the country lives in poverty, meaning most don't have the means to buy this, making a law requiring them to do so doesn't change the facts.

Whats that old saying about blood from a turnip, or stone even for that matter?????????

Most of the working people of this country are at below or just above the poverty level, meaning they have exactly as much, or a little less, or barely more, than the .gov agrees they need just to live. This isn't living well, or living great, this is barely even living, without a lot of the stuff you take for granted.

You can pass a law requiring a man to pay any amount for anything you want ( apparently ). This does not mean the man can or will be able under any criteria to do so though.

Use your head, Over 60% of the working populous is barely making it right now, so "forcing" them under threat of IRS threats penalties and even jail, is going to make them magically appear in the middle class?

Your entire view is messed up guy......go ask some of the poor people in your town what they think....just so you know, they are the majority of folks not driving cars made in the last 10 years, or wearing new cloths, or sporting an Iphone.

You may even have to go to the side of town you and your friends always make fun of, because it is so run down and dangerous..............just saying....if your position held any merits, it wouldn't be so ridiculous.

EarthCitizen07
The benefit of national healthcare is that government buys insurance at the highest volume and thus has leverage keeping the premiums low. Think walmart and home depot for a moment. The government is negotiating on behalf of millions of americans, rather than each american negotiating on his own behalf in a one vs one with HMOs.

Most countries HAVE NHS so it cant be that bad. Outside of the USA big pharma sells medicine in bulk to the respective NHS and then the government subsidises the cost to the insured which translates to really cheap healthcare.

I think the whole NHS system was intentionally setup to fail from the beginning in USA. The republicans sabotaged it. Thats why 20,000 pages were needed that none read.

edit on 20/9/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

..........!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!!!!!


Wait did you just honestly try to say walmart has or even gives health insurance that is worth buying!!!!!????


LOL AHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL ROFL AHAHAHAHAHAhahaha....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA>>>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA>>>AHAHAHAHAHAhahahAhahaAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walmart is known for having one of the worst by far health insurance programs in the entire country tardo!!!!!

Here is one problem with the current system that I hope the ACA will end up fixing. Right now, I do not have insurance. If I was to have a stroke; I would live out the rest of my days in the hospital. Why? Because the hospital cannot refuse me care. On the other hand any rehab facility will reject me because I can not pay for rehab. Thus, I will be stuck at the hospital getting less quality rehab while everyone who has insurance will be stuck with a higher bill. This has been shown to happen on one of the news programs. One woman who was originally from Poland had to be sent to Poland because that is the only way the hospital could get her into a rehab facility!! The current system is majorly broken.

Also, today I want to pick up my prescriptions for high blood pressure. I have two medications that usually cost $4 a piece. When my prescriptions were rung up, the lady said $26. I said "What" they are usually $4 a piece. The lady says "Wait a minute. Let me look up your records." She begins to type into the cash register keypad. When she is finished; she announces: "That will be $8". I said; "What happened". The lady then explains to me that because my prescription needed to be refilled; the prescriptions got a new number and the price had not been transferred to the new prescription code. I get the drugs at $4 dollars since the pharmacy is in competition with Walmart among others. THE LADY SAID THE INSURANCE COMPANIES FORBID THEM TO EITHER TELL ME THAT I MUST POINT OUT THE OLD RATE OR GIVING ME THE OLD RATE BY THEMSELVES. I MUST BE SHOCKED AND QUESTION TO GET THE USUAL RATE OF $4. THIS STINKS TOO.

reply to post by marg6043


Yup, the Georgia Insurance commissioner determined that Exchange representatives must pass Georgia's Insurance examination before they can advise consumers on Insurance matters. What a concept.

Guess no free Obama Phone types need apply.............for the feral government employment racket that's set up in other localities outside of Georgia.

I hear the test is difficult and takes quite the effort to pass meaning if this crap stands at least we'll have educated folks giving guidance, unlike other states that will allow any shmuck to do the job.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07



In other news "On Thursday, Home Depot became yet another company that announced it would shift part-time workers to the government-run healthcare exchanges. In addition, a company spokesperson conceded that full-time employees, though they will still get health benefits, would pay more due to an increase in costs next year. "

www.breitbart.com...


Just gets better and better all the time...who you gonna use to announce how great they are at health insurance next...North Korea????