An Important Message - An Attempt To Get You To See The Danger That Is Staring Us All In The Face

AlienScience
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

 

I don't know why you think this will destroy America. It is actually the exact thing we need to bring us into the modern healthcare era.

Medicare for all, that will be reality in the future. Instead of insurance premiums, we will get an increased and progressive Medicare tax.

Then we will finally have Universal Healthcare. It's just that since we are America, we are too stupid (or a portion of us are) to go directly to the inevitable and only sustainable solution...that is why we have to go through this painful process trying to save a dying system and then only turn to the real solution when that system has collapsed.

We should have had Medicare for all instead of the ACA.

And a big fat star for you, I couldn't have said it better myself!

President Obama ran into the exact same opposition that prevented Hillary from reforming our "healthcare insurance industry" back when Bill was POTUS, which was the "for-profit" private healthcare insurance lobby. The power of this lobby should not be underestimated, greed is a powerful thing.

Hillary envisioned the U.S. having a universal healthcare system much like those found in the rest of the industrialized world, which are "Not For Profit."

It's very important that people know the difference between "healthcare" and "private healthcare insurance." The later is really nothing more than a tool used to introduce a means by which to generate a "profit" from someone's illness and/or injury.

To the OP; The answer to your question of how to fix this problem is really quite simple, "Eliminate the private, for profit, healthcare insurance industry, at least when it comes to basic healthcare."

If they, (private healthcare insurers) want to provide coverage for elective procedures on a for profit basis, maybe we could leave them room to operate there.

Universal healthcare for everyone is the only reasonable way to provide healthcare for our population and statistics prove that it's not just cheaper, it's better than what we're doing now.

mikegrouchy

edit on 19-9-2013 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)

this would indicate that most of the old people that need to be bumped off, has to occur in the Midwest and florida...maybe they can have vans loaded up with gang members and disperse out to these areas

I, saw something like the OP describes coming way back in the 80's. I was forced to go into the military when I was 21 because I couldn't find a job anywhere, as was the case for many during that recession. While I was in the military learning to kill people and wreck stuff, there wasn't much to do while lying awake in my bunk at night, and it wasn't easy to sleep being all wanged out like I was from all the crazy physical training so I would lie there and think about stuff...I thought about how many people joined the military because they couldn't find employment like I did, I thought about those who were unemployed not paying into the transfer scheme that is social security, I thought about those who were retired still getting full bennies from SS even though there were fewer paying into it with a recession on and unemployment high...But I was just a dopey kid....

There was already a system in place to collect the funds needed to develop a system to replace social security, there just wasn't one developed. The people running the whole mess knew this was coming 40 years ago, and did nothing about it, the medical industry became nothing more than a business for profit like any other business...

I don't have any real answers either, but I do know that the things EVERYONE needs to survive and thrive cannot be left to business to control, because business ends up doing this, causing the mess we are in now. A lot of people would accuse me of being a socialist, but I don't claim that affiliation, I claim affiliation to something that doesn't exist yet, if that makes sense.

Instead of thrashing about between the same old failing business and banking model that caused this we need to come up with something truly new and unique and considerate of all the suffering caused by our greed based way of doing business on this planet.

The old standby to fix economies and drive rebuilding and growth will be war I fear, unless enough people stop fearing the initial agony of going a different direction, agree to stop being selfish, realize there will be a need for assistance in their old age.

All I really know is that there are powerful legal entities in this country that were illegal until 60 or so years after the founding of this country, which are precisely the cause of this, and that was the reason they were illegal here for so long....

I have training in the medical fields also, I never took a job in it because my principles would not allow me to do that to people.

reply to post by Flatfish

Universal Healthcare Insurance as we are having forced on us right now : A pig wearing lipstick is still a pig. Maybe a prettier pig, but still a pig.

Wildmanimal

The issue is, the Insurance Companies Gambled in Derivatives.


The "Profiteers" chose unwisely.



By The way, The Big Bail Out occurred as our last President strolled out of The White House.
The amount of the Bail Out was greater than the cost of building all the roads, bridges, buildings,
dams, and defense war machinery,social programs, and a great deal more,can you even imagine?,
than all money spent from prior signing of the Declaration of Independence to The Emergency
Economic Stabilization Act of 2008.

It was at that time, the greatest transfer of wealth in Human History on Earth.

jokei

Same with pensions, with an aging population this is going to snowball. Very simply people living longer is terrible for the economy.

Living longer is NOT the problem.

It is living longer coupled with NOT having enough children.

And even to this day, people shame and embarrass those who do so.

reply to post by Bilk22

You said that very well,the healing professions are seen as business these days-its disgusting-and the insurance companies carry a large part of the blame for this horrible state of affairs.Where my hubby works,its compulsory for employees to have medical insurance+this place uses the top medical insurance company in the country-very expensive.We don't mind because we have children but it takes a big cut from his salary-on the other hand,it is absolutely essential,the cheap state hospitals have really detreriorated awfully in the last 20 years. Its not a chance one can take if you have kids,not if you want to give any patient a decent shot at survival in serious cases.

WeAreAWAKE
So let me see if I understand this. Obama pushed his Affordable Care Act which is going to force people to pay for insurance. Some paying for insurance that they didn't pay for before, others paying more, etc. And the ONLY reason for this is to prop up a dying system and pay for the people making claims today? So we...the ones not yet digging into the benefits...are being raped for money to support those using the benefits. And at a time like this, in this economy we are being lied to that this is a solution when in reality it is a failed effort to draw out the problem and cost us more in the long run?

Pretty tight nutshell with tentatively one small exception. It really isn't going to cost us more in terms of dollars over the long run. If you consider the fleecing of the largest pension plan ever a cost to us, then you're right. What it's going to cost us is more likely our freedom. The economy is going to tank and a new currency system has to take its place. If you're old, you're screwed. Everything you've put into SS and Medicare is a wash. If you haven't wisely invested in your children you're going to find yourself on the street or in a FEMA camp. On the bright side, you won't have to pay off your credit card bills.

I can fix it. Cap profits on medicine and insurance. Easy fix. It's greed that caused the problem in the first place.

As far as the Aca, that has nothing to do with it. Getting the poor medical care is long overdue. As the op said there is no increase in your premiums. Now if the insurance company raises it that's on them just trying to make more and more money but the Obama haters want you to blame the ACA, and the reason for that? Guess. They are beholden to the insurance companies and rich hospitals.

MyHappyDogShiner
reply to post by Flatfish

 

Universal Healthcare Insurance as we are having forced on us right now : A pig wearing lipstick is still a pig. Maybe a prettier pig, but still a pig.

No! What you're having forced on you right now is the "individual mandate to purchase private healthcare insurance," an idea taken directly from The Heritage Foundation and shoved down our throats by the GOP during the ObamaCare negotiations. Remember when "public-option" and "Medicare for all" representatives were denied a seat at the table? Well, that's when the GOP and their "privatize everything attitude" put the lipstick on this pig!

Take the private, for profit healthcare insurer out of the picture and you immediately realize gains in available healthcare dollars by eliminating the cost of advertising, CEO salaries and profit margins. Not to mention the cost of having entire departments whose job it is to find a reason to deny your claim.

In the private healthcare realm, I would wager that less than 50% of the company revenues are actually being spent on healthcare and one of the concessions that the Dems. got during the ACA negotiations was to institute requirements that the private healthcare insurance industry spend a higher percentage of gross revenues on actual healthcare. And they don't like it! .

Obama and his supporters didn't want this version of coverage but the GOP and the private healthcare insurance lobby demanded it, so this is what we got.

Now if you could be so kind as to give our obstructionist republican congressional representatives a call and tell them to get the # out of the way on this one, I'm confident that we can fix this in short order.

Insurers including Aetna and Health Net say narrower networks, made up of hospitals and physicians selected using cost and patient-outcomes criteria, are necessary to keep their exchange plan premiums affordable while still meeting the requirements of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.”

In other words, Obamacare drives up the cost of premiums by requiring companies to cover those with pre-existing conditions, to pay for a number of designated benefits and to limit out-of-pocket spending. So to keep rates in check, insurers are paring down their networks.

This means that a beneficiary may have an insurance policy that theoretically covers a medical service, but could have a tough time finding an appointment or a facility that can provide the service.

Modern Healthcare raises another potential issue: “There also are concerns that narrow-network plans will cause risk-selection problems in the exchanges because lower-priced plans with smaller networks are likely to attract younger, healthier enrollees and drive people with serious health conditions into plans with wider networks. That could force all plans to pare down their networks to survive, thus limiting consumer choice. Then regulators might have to step in.”

Interestingly, one of the arguments that supporters of the health care law have consistently made is that even though Obamacare may make health insurance more expensive in some cases, people will be getting better, more comprehensive policies. But the limitations on access undercut this point.

The response to this, I suppose, would be that somebody who would otherwise be uninsured is still far better off having insurance, even if there are restrictions on its use.

However, it’s also worth keeping in mind that this isn’t the only way that the health care law may affect access. Paul Spitalnic, the acting chief actuary of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, has warned that the law’s cuts to Medicare payment rates could restrict access for the program’s beneficiaries.

Additionally, if the capacity of the nation’s health care system doesn’t increase to meet the demands of the millions of newly-covered Americans flooding providers, then everybody may be experiencing access shock in the form of difficulty making appointments or longer waits at doctors’ offices. But hey let's do something else that no one reads before passage so we can find out what is in the bill..... Great Plan

They have done this to them selfs.
they keep trying to make as much money from health
that the cost has gone over what we can pay.

this is the same for a lot of things.
the Parasite is killing the Host !

mikegrouchy

jokei

Same with pensions, with an aging population this is going to snowball. Very simply people living longer is terrible for the economy.

Living longer is NOT the problem.

It is living longer coupled with NOT having enough children.

And even to this day, people shame and embarrass those who do so.

You nailed it Mike. Amongst so many factors, not the least of which is greed on the supply side, is the simple fact of numbers. For this system to perpetuate, there has to be a stable base of healthy young subscribers. Everyone pining away for Universal Healthcare in this thread cannot grasp or accept this stark reality.
UH, with these demographics, will bankrupt the government just as quickly as an insurance company. Raising taxes won't cover it. Fact is, costs for even a "minor" emergency *far* outstrip the yearly input an individual or even a family provides.
As an example, we pay in ~$450US/mo for our family healthcare. That's what, 5,400/year. We had one incident where our son had to be hospitalized and have a life-saving surgery. Total bill was in the ballpark of 110,000 dollars! If you have kids, you understand that getting out 18+ years later without some kind of story like this is relatively rare.
Even if you count my wife's and my insurance 'input' while we were young and healthy our deficit from this one incident is still enormous. But she and I came from larger families: all our siblings have paid into insurance as well. Some of our siblings have not (and will not) have children. Point is, in the odds larger families are better for insurance systems.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


I agree with much that you say. I am a baby boomer, born 1951. It is my experience with my peers and myself that we think differently from our parents, the WW2 generation, now in their 80's or 90's. I have an old friend dying from cancer now and she chose not to fight with the chemo and radiation and she is not the only one. I have a Living will denying long term care and so does my husband and other of our friends have done same. Most of us make this choice so that we will not lose our homes to medical bills, even with insurance. Also, I think our generation grew up with impending death threats with the first atomic bomb, the Cold War and neighbors building bomb shelters, then in our teens, Viet Nam. Why be afraid of the inevitable.

Of course the insurance companies are profit taking enterprises so what should we expect? A new health care system.

AlienScience
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

 

I don't know why you think this will destroy America. It is actually the exact thing we need to bring us into the modern healthcare era.

Medicare for all, that will be reality in the future. Instead of insurance premiums, we will get an increased and progressive Medicare tax.

Then we will finally have Universal Healthcare. It's just that since we are America, we are too stupid (or a portion of us are) to go directly to the inevitable and only sustainable solution...that is why we have to go through this painful process trying to save a dying system and then only turn to the real solution when that system has collapsed.

We should have had Medicare for all instead of the ACA.

nothing we do currently, as a society globally, will work, nothing. do you know why?


simple, people don't care about each other and with that information you can cross out everything and anything you think will work, because unless people care about each other, there will always be animosity, corruption, lies, deceit, yada yada yada until yet another plan fails just like what you described would fail.

until enough people begin to care about themselves and others, we are looking at a hard reset globally and i'm thinking many will not survive it.

i see people conversing on these issues, including myself, while normally missing the most important point, don't bother thinking anything new will work, when our core, our roots, are rotting.

I like Ron Paul's solution to the problem. He says:

"...There is only one solution that will lead to true health and true freedom: making health care more affordable..."

"... Ron Paul believes that only TRUE (emphasis mine) free market competition will put pressure on the providers and force them to lower their costs to remain in business. Additionally, Ron Paul wants to change the tax code to allow individual Americans to fully deduct all health care costs from their taxes..."

To read his solution (also discusses natural cures, big pharma corruption, etc.) in its entirety, click this link:

www.ronpaul.com...

reply to post by intrptr



The new drugs and operations have to be tried and tested on someone!!
You will cling on to life when the man with the scythe starts looking for you.

reply to post by Flatfish

Oops, I left out the word "mandatory"...

OK, Mandatory Universal Healthcare Insurance, still a pig in lipstick, I don't suppose it was quite what they meant by "Promoting the General Welfare"when they wrote that constitution thingie.

Never mind being forced by law to do business with something or other

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

We need 90 nutrients. Every cell in our body has a mineral coefficient. 90 ESSENTIAL nutrients. For each nutrient deficiency there are on average 10 diseases. 10x90=900 diseases that can be prevented and fixed with plant derived nutrients.

Your attached to the medical dictatorship that the founders talked about. Let it go. The places where people live the longest are the ones that are the furthest away from medical help. Truth is this medical tyranny just treats people there is no law to actually fix the problems.

Get off this whole model. Move into holistic preventative and the total fixing of medical problems at their root source which ALWAYS comes down to nutrient deficiencies.

"Anyone who does of natural causes dies of a nutrient deficiency disease." - Nobel prize winner in medicine Joel Wallach

They put 12 nutrients in baby formula and wonder why so many of them die compared to other cultures. Sudden infant death syndrome is from there NOT being selenium in the formulas. Vets fixed SIDS in cows in the 1940s by just making sure they had a little selenium in there food.


"The University of Arizona Medical School took 1300 people, put them on 250-500 mcg (micrograms) Selenium, and for 10 years they looked at them for skin cancer. And it didn’t help skin cancer, we know that, because Selenium doesn’t work for skin cancer. Zinc, and Beta Carotene and Vitamin E works for skin cancer. What they found out serendipitously, they weren’t expecting this, it just sort of popped out of the study, they were able to reduce esophageal cancer by 71%, they were able to reduce prostate cancer by 69% fellows, better than two thirds, they were able to reduce colon and rectal cancer by 64%, almost two thirds, they were able to reduce lung cancer, whether you smoked or not, by 48%, and ladies, in a parallel study from the University of California by the great Dr. Gerhardt Schrauser, he said you can reduce your risk of breast cancer, depending on the type of breast cancer, by 50-85%, by taking 250 to 500 mcg (of Selenium) everyday." -Wallach's Health Encyclopedia


Get ALL 60 minerals, 16 vitamins, 12 amino acids, and 3 EFAs in exact ratios every day to support a North American lifestyle which includes depleted soils, unprecedented levels of nuclear radiation, chemical spraying, chemical additives, and over 200 deadly chemicals in the water supply just to name a few.

Hopefully this wakes people the **** up and they'll realize that all these DRUGS are just destroying the bodies' natural ability to absorb nutrients, thus making the body unable to fight disease and adding worse diseases on top of the diseases trying to be addressed.

reply to post by Flatfish

Don't disregard the fact that those insurance companies are corporations which have to perform for their investors, considering that, where exactly do the issues arise?, maybe those corporation thingamabobadooles were unlawful in the U.S. for some reason or other till 1819.

Banks, Corporations, Hmmm....?.And now they have personhood and freedom of expression too, paying to influence political campaigns too.

Gee Whiz, we be in trouble.

Nullification through civil disobedience might work, after it gets painful enough for a majority to stop arguing and agree on anything....