To the Atheist: A reason Christians get heated when defending their belief.

truejew

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

The 144,000 in Rev are 12,000 racial Hebrews from each of the 12 bloodlines descending from Jacob. We know this because they are identified with the original tribe names. Yes, they are all believers in Christ, but they are all genetically the seed of Abraham.

Not all members of the Church are genetic Hebrews. Spiritually yes, but not genetically.

The Church will never replace Israel in God's unconditional covenant with Abraham.

The 144,000 are saved through Jesus Christ. They are part of the Church. They are not saved by their race or by the law. You need to repent of your racism, antichrist doctrine, and false prophecy.

Wow. Are you purposely trying to provoke me to sin??? Because that is the impression I am getting from you.

I DID NOT SAY THAT THE 144K WERE SAVED DUE TO THE LAW, RACIAL STATUS, OR ANY OTHER PSYCHOTIC DELUSION THAT YOUR MIND CAN FABRICATE.

What I said was that they are believers in Christ. THEY ARE SAVED BY FAITH IN JESUS.

If they are members of the Church, why do they bare the names of the 12 hebrew blood lines.?

I am not racist. I am simply making an observation. You are the one who hates the Herbrew race. You feel that some how God chose you over the Jews who believed in Messiah.

Why do you hate the Hebrews? Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? What the Hell is your problem?

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

Double post

reply to post by truejew


The !44,000 will be Essene, and they are not part of the orthodox church. They stand well apart from it, as they did from the temple.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


You mean the delusional belief that a man in the sky has a "personal relationship" with you is your justification for getting angry when people other than you point out that there's no evidence for a man in the sky? And we non-believers are supposed to just be like, "Oh I understand now. He had an experience and interpreted it in a way that doesn't actually PROVE anything except to him, personally, which by definition is in no way shape or form scientific proof/evidence! Ahhhhhhh.. suddenly it all makes sense."

Well. I know my chocolate cake is actually strawberry flavored because deep in my soul I know it only looks, smells, and tastes like chocolate. The strawberry flavoring told me so! Ok well... it didn't actually tell me anything, but I had a weird experience once and from then on I was convinced - all chocolate is strawberry!

Isn't strawberry so magnificent that it is undeniabley the only flavor?

Anybody..?

No? You say that there's no evidence that chocolate is strawberry?

Fine, be that way. You're going to hell.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

I DID NOT SAY THAT THE 144K WERE SAVED DUE TO THE LAW, RACIAL STATUS, OR ANY OTHER PSYCHOTIC DELUSION THAT YOUR MIND CAN FABRICATE.

If they are not part of the Church, then they are not in Christ. Paul's natural Jewishness did not separate him from the Church. Either the 144,000 are in the Church or they are saved by some other way. Your doctrine thinks that it is by race and animal sacrifices. If you do not agree with your doctrine, come out.

BELIEVERpriest

If they are members of the Church, why do they bare the names of the 12 hebrew blood lines.?

If they are in Christ and saved, then they are in the Church as Paul was. Their natural blood line does not exclude them from the Church.

BELIEVERpriest

I am not racist.

Then why would you teach a doctrine that teaches that Jews in Christ and outside of Christ are more special than Gentiles in Christ?

BELIEVERpriest

You are the one who hates the Herbrew race. You feel that some how God chose you over the Jews who believed in Messiah.

I do not hate the Hebrew race. I stand with Paul and the other natural Jewish apostles in preaching Christ.

I do not teach that God has chosen me over Jews who believe in Christ, only over those who reject Christ.

BELIEVERpriest

Why do you hate the Hebrews?

I do not hate the Hebrews, I just preach Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation.

MagnumOpus
reply to post by truejew

 

The !44,000 will be Essene, and they are not part of the orthodox church. They stand well apart from it, as they did from the temple.

They will be in the Church.

Just as Paul, the other apostles, and the other early natural Jews were in the Church.


Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

You just beat yourself at your own argument. If the old requirement was grace thru faith the new requirement would be grace thru faith. God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow.

HairlessApe
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

You mean the delusional belief that a man in the sky has a "personal relationship" with you is your justification for getting angry when people other than you point out that there's no evidence for a man in the sky? And we non-believers are supposed to just be like, "Oh I understand now. He had an experience and interpreted it in a way that doesn't actually PROVE anything except to him, personally, which by definition is in no way shape or form scientific proof/evidence! Ahhhhhhh.. suddenly it all makes sense."

Well. I know my chocolate cake is actually strawberry flavored because deep in my soul I know it only looks, smells, and tastes like chocolate. The strawberry flavoring told me so! Ok well... it didn't actually tell me anything, but I had a weird experience once and from then on I was convinced - all chocolate is strawberry!

Isn't strawberry so magnificent that it is undeniabley the only flavor?

Anybody..?

No? You say that there's no evidence that chocolate is strawberry?

Fine, be that way. You're going to hell.

edit on 20-9-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

You see this is what pisses us off. You get on here with no respect what so ever. Prove to me the belief is a delusion don't just speculate because you cannot fathom a being on a higher fractal than you. I'll give you one piece of evidence that its not me be delusional, but rather the opposite I am being quite rational.

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

You just beat yourself at your own argument. If the old requirement was grace thru faith the new requirement would be grace thru faith. God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow.

No, I believe salvation is by grace through faith. Repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are actions of faith which brings the grace of God. A person who refuses repentance, baptism, and the Holy Spirit does not have faith in Jesus Christ.

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

You just beat yourself at your own argument. If the old requirement was grace thru faith the new requirement would be grace thru faith. God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow.

No, I believe salvation is by grace through faith. Repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are actions of faith which brings the grace of God. A person who refuses repentance, baptism, and the Holy Spirit does not have faith in Jesus Christ.

You are arguing against Scripture again. Salvation is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Jesus himself said this, are you calling Jesus a liar?

reply to post by truejew


Key word is "actions". Actions are works. Work does not save. Faith ALONE saves.

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

You just beat yourself at your own argument. If the old requirement was grace thru faith the new requirement would be grace thru faith. God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow.

No, I believe salvation is by grace through faith. Repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are actions of faith which brings the grace of God. A person who refuses repentance, baptism, and the Holy Spirit does not have faith in Jesus Christ.

You are arguing against Scripture again. Salvation is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Jesus himself said this, are you calling Jesus a liar?

When asked, "what shall we do?", Peter said repent and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Paul says salvation is by grace through faith. You seem to think that Peter and Paul contradict each other and you prefer to follow Paul. I choose to say that Peter and Paul both spoke by the Holy Spirit and what Peter taught is true salvation by grace through faith. Jesus taught the necessity of repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by truejew

 

Key word is "actions". Actions are works. Work does not save. Faith ALONE saves.

Faith and action cannot be separated. Noah had faith in God. His faith caused him to follow God's words in building and entering the ark. Noah was saved by God's grace through his faith. Actions were part of his faith. If Noah did not build and enter the ark, then he lacked faith in God and would not have received God's grace. He would have died with everyone else. The same is with the command to repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Spirit. Do you have faith in Jesus Christ to "save yourself from this untoward generation" through repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit as Peter preached? Or will your lack of faith in Jesus Christ cause you to be lost?

reply to post by truejew


Wrong again. Noah's faith motivated his actions. Faith alone comes first. Action before faith is action divorced from faith and is therefore vanity.

Peter said repent (change your negative attitude about Christ) and be baptized (with the Holy Spirit). He never mentioned water baptism. He spoke this at pentacost, when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Read the context.

Acts 2:38

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

But hey, just ignore me, like you said, Im just a good for nothing Antichrist. What do I know?

BELIEVERpriest

 

Wrong again. Noah's faith motivated his actions. Faith alone comes first. Action before faith is action divorced from faith and is therefore vanity.

Peter said repent (change your negative attitude about Christ) and be baptized (with the Holy Spirit). He never mentioned water baptism. He spoke this at pentacost, when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit. Read the context.

Acts 2:38

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

But hey, just ignore me, like you said, Im just a good for nothing Antichrist. What do I know?

I am correct. Noah would have died if it was not for his faith actions and it does not make sense for Peter to mention baptism in the Holy Spirit twice like you claim. The rest of the book of Acts agrees that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ refers to water baptism.

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

You just beat yourself at your own argument. If the old requirement was grace thru faith the new requirement would be grace thru faith. God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow.

No, I believe salvation is by grace through faith. Repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are actions of faith which brings the grace of God. A person who refuses repentance, baptism, and the Holy Spirit does not have faith in Jesus Christ.

You are arguing against Scripture again. Salvation is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Jesus himself said this, are you calling Jesus a liar?

When asked, "what shall we do?", Peter said repent and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Paul says salvation is by grace through faith. You seem to think that Peter and Paul contradict each other and you prefer to follow Paul. I choose to say that Peter and Paul both spoke by the Holy Spirit and what Peter taught is true salvation by grace through faith. Jesus taught the necessity of repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism.

You like quoting peter, but when I quote Jesus himself who is peter to argue(although I agree with priest it is baptism of holy spirit so he isnt arguing).

John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Why didn't Jesus say believe in the one he has sent and be baptized?

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

truejew

ServantOfTheLamb

The Church is God's only chosen people. Jesus Christ is the only way to God. The law does not save.

Okay here you say the law does not save.

The thief on the cross did not die under the New Covenant. He died under the law and before baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

So we both agree the law doesn't save. So how do you think the thief was saved? He wasn't baptized, but we know he went to heaven.

edit on 20-9-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

The thief was saved by grace through faith, which during the days of the law, did not include water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

You just beat yourself at your own argument. If the old requirement was grace thru faith the new requirement would be grace thru faith. God is the same today yesterday and tomorrow.

No, I believe salvation is by grace through faith. Repentance, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit are actions of faith which brings the grace of God. A person who refuses repentance, baptism, and the Holy Spirit does not have faith in Jesus Christ.

You are arguing against Scripture again. Salvation is only obtained by faith in Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Jesus himself said this, are you calling Jesus a liar?

When asked, "what shall we do?", Peter said repent and be baptized and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Paul says salvation is by grace through faith. You seem to think that Peter and Paul contradict each other and you prefer to follow Paul. I choose to say that Peter and Paul both spoke by the Holy Spirit and what Peter taught is true salvation by grace through faith. Jesus taught the necessity of repentance, water baptism, and Spirit baptism.

You like quoting peter, but when I quote Jesus himself who is peter to argue(although I agree with priest it is baptism of holy spirit so he isnt arguing).

John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Why didn't Jesus say believe in the one he has sent and be baptized?

I do not agree with your teaching that Peter taught a different plan of salvation than Jesus. Jesus said that baptism was necessary in John 3. To believe in Jesus includes being baptized into Christ.

ServantOfTheLamb

HairlessApe
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

You mean the delusional belief that a man in the sky has a "personal relationship" with you is your justification for getting angry when people other than you point out that there's no evidence for a man in the sky? And we non-believers are supposed to just be like, "Oh I understand now. He had an experience and interpreted it in a way that doesn't actually PROVE anything except to him, personally, which by definition is in no way shape or form scientific proof/evidence! Ahhhhhhh.. suddenly it all makes sense."

Well. I know my chocolate cake is actually strawberry flavored because deep in my soul I know it only looks, smells, and tastes like chocolate. The strawberry flavoring told me so! Ok well... it didn't actually tell me anything, but I had a weird experience once and from then on I was convinced - all chocolate is strawberry!

Isn't strawberry so magnificent that it is undeniabley the only flavor?

Anybody..?

No? You say that there's no evidence that chocolate is strawberry?

Fine, be that way. You're going to hell.

edit on 20-9-2013 by HairlessApe because: (no reason given)

You see this is what pisses us off. You get on here with no respect what so ever. Prove to me the belief is a delusion don't just speculate because you cannot fathom a being on a higher fractal than you. I'll give you one piece of evidence that its not me be delusional, but rather the opposite I am being quite rational.

Prove to me that Leprechauns and Unicorns don't exist. According to the literature they would both be of a "higher fractal" than myself.

I'm following your EXACT logic by asking you to do this - EXACT.

The fact that your belief in god is valid to you than leprechauns are does not mean it is to the rest of us. Would you seriously RESPECT someone's belief in leprechauns? You MIGHT accept it, if it was a societal norm to do so, but to RESPECT it would require something "special."