Why do people worship wealth and the wealthy

Maybe there are people who have accumulated such wealth honestly, but when you dig into their backgrounds, often you find commission of very devious acts, taking advantage of others in criminal ways.

There are numerous sayings in most cultures that suggest as much; great or even significant wealth is more often than not attained by not only working hard&smart but also by stepping on ( or slicing off) some toes.

I have met more than a few wealthy people, and mostly was not impressed.

"Nice' people help out their friends and generally treat their friends and families to whatever excess income they may be gaining trough their hard( and sometimes smart) work. The whole pursuit of wealth accumulation is quite unnatural and takes a great deal of self discipline and very well thought out behavioural patterns that does not prove that you are 'evil' as much as it shows that your capacity for self control enables you to be a real danger to society if you, or others, could manipulate you to act in specific ways.

I don't see the need for the giant mansions and all the toys.

In this day and age, it doesn't take great wealth to live a rich life, or to make great contributions. Most of the people I have met, or read about, who have contributed greatly, did not become rich, as defined above.

You said it.

The problem with wealth accumulation , or even the pursuit of it, is that it can't have any effect but to degrade social cohesion if for no other reason that people simply no longer have to rely on each other for the necessities which once required close cooperation. Social interaction becomes increasing more frivolous and trivial leading to the very real atomization of society with all the consequent ills of people who slowly become less and less able to work together and thus less and less able to properly deal with the concentrated wealth that always seems to stay bound to each other trough their mutual abject fear of the 'lower' class rebellions which their actions keeps on inspiring.

The answer is to organize in self defense and since this is well understood they encourage us to pursue wealth by independent means guaranteeing that only a few will ever join them , since it's a zero sum game, and the rest stay divided trough their divisive struggle for crumbs.

Stellar

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Been thinking on this, Wrabbit, and I think it's in prat due to a fundamental change in attitudes within the nation, both in business and society. Gone are the Henry Fords whose novel idea was to pay his workers enough so that they could afford to buy the cars that they made. Enter in globalization where billionaires may trade in a citizenship for one country to reap the benefits of another country and where they may have homes scattered across the world, both leading to a potential loss in national loyalty. In the 1950's, the tax rates were much, much higher for the well-to-do, which mean giving a significant portion of their income to the nation, though the difference between the stated tax rate and actual effective tax rates (% of income tax actually paid post deductions and etc) differed wildly. Back then, paying a 31% tax rate meant that you had a great accounting firm that helped you avoid a 90% tax rate. These days, the tax rate to avoid is 29%. Making a profit was always the goal but it was also cushioned somewhat with making a quality product that lasted.

As far as attitudes go, the 80's was the "Me" era where just about every value that we had a people seemed to be shredded. Self interest became the number one prerogative thanks to promoted beliefs by Esalen. I and the majority of my friends became children of divorce and latchkey kids whose parents couldn't be bothered that much by them unless they got in trouble. It was all about "Me" and it's not gotten any better. We became a more disposable society and companies that catered to that were able to make more and more profits.

www.epi.org...
The graph is a little confusingly built because it's supposed to have worker pay in there. It's there. When we examined this graph in tax class, the line for worker pay was around 6-7% and fairly flat ("flatlined" with all of its emphasis on death). We spend too much, some gain too much, and all with little respect to our nation and land. We basically became a society that was toxic towards community and that's wholly unsustainable on all counts.

reply to post by StellarX


All excellent stuff StellarX.

What the absolute vast majority of 'people' want ( something like the film) is as far as i can tell essentially the security of their persons and as well as the emotional security resulting from close personal bonds to family&relatives as well as some sense of contributing to larger *tribal* like groupings of relatives and neighbors. Since we now largely live in societies where most of these things have become associated with the pursuit of wealth in the form of independence buying currency it is hard to know when you have 'enough' and when you should start employing it to meet your original needs. [/quote

In this modern era, I don't think the vast majority of people in the develop world want for much of anything, when it comes to basic needs. I think the real problem is a lack of challenge, a worthy pursuit. Consumerism doesn't feel the void for the average intelligent capable person.

This is how I felt as I grew up, and how a great many people I know feel. In our day and age, "boredom is a serious problem."

I agree, people turn to religion, and I think a whole lot of people are looking for a new religion.

reply to post by StellarX

But what sort of self control can be had in this sort of system? The self control not to tell the owner/boss to go #$%$% himself and then to drink yourself stupid over the weekend/beat the wife/gf when she tries to share her expectations?

I would say that is more than going a little crazy.

In my home town, young men are getting hooked on heroine. Heroine!!!!!!!! That is pursuit of total insanity.

What a surprise that the lizard king's dad was one of the top admirals in the Navy, and a great many of the leaders of the whole druggie hippie movement were closely tied to the military.

Our current education system is about re-establishing a class system. The super rich want to be worshiped.

What would work is a culture that thrives on creativity, building things to last, stable communities, however this doesn't work well for those who lust for wealth and power. This was the message JC delivered, that has been ignored.

Originally posted by mikegrouchy
Here is a picture detailing some stats on the worlds Billionaires.
I figure some of these guys must have some kind of pull.
Isn't it weird that the energy drinks are from Singapore?
Anheuser Busch is now in Brazil. Who knew.

What was your original theory then about how they make their money? I mean if it's not pull ( i presume you mean twisting arms and other limbs out of sockets) then how do you manage to make other people part with their subsistence or large parts thereof?

None in China as they keep putting
their richest in Jail. =(

That is not accurate as this Forbes list includes 100 Chinese Billionairs and i am not sure that they would be allowed to keep their money while in 'jail' or appear on any lists in the first place . As long as you 'play ball' and run your state enterprise the way you are expected to run it without concerning yourself with making plays for more absolutely political power you can make as much money as you like; much like any other country under authoritarian rule really.

www.forbes.com...

My feeling is that America is one of the safest countries in the world
for a wealthy family to live, and I want to keep it that way.

That seems to be case as American society, despite how it's really really over hyped, really do have a aspirational type culture with the very well protect rich serving as quite the example of what can be achieved. The fact that very very few ( less than 1% surely) even aspire to such wealth isn't mentioned when their absurd wealth is defended as par for the course in an aspirational type culture.

As to the question "why do people worship wealth and the wealthy"
Answer me this question, and I will answer yours.
"Why do people worship themselves"

I don't think that they do and i can't see why you would attempt to prove as much? Doesn't the religious sentiments/spiritual aspirations of most people point clearly to them seeking meaning outside of themselves? Only those who have very little or no spiritual/communal life worship themselves or pursue naked self interest and then it seems to me at least only because they can not comprehend alternatives; they are at worse freaks of some psychological development process gone wrong ( probably as result of some childhood trauma) or the result of very specific parental or societal manipulation.

What.
You don't want to be wealthy?

No i do not an neither do the absolute vast majority of humanity. 'Normal' people pursue 'security' and depending on numerous factors this can vary quite wildly between the tandem pursuits of emotional satisfaction( call it happiness if you will; interestingly the US constitution suggest this and leaves out the later) and material security. When there is not much material security to be had the former must often be suborned in the interest of material security but to pursue material things ( in the western context) beyond a nice house and a comfortable retirement ( net worth of say half a million at retirement age presuming paid house etc) is certainly not Christian and in strictly evolutionary terms unnatural at that.

Stellar

Don't hate the player hate the game , comes to mind.

Society ,media and governments are setup to reward the rich . So why blame them for being rich, when that is the goal set forward by most of societies at an early age? Society is marketed to be good consumers which means to NOT be a responsible consumer.

How often do you hear about teachers,doctors,janitors,waiters, normal folks that do good in their community and are held and rewarded as role models? The public gets marketed instead with the Britney Spears, Retardashians, and athletes that have abundant amount of wealth and do extravagant spending instead .

Maybe we shouldn't blame the rich for meeting the goal set forward by the majority of society. Maybe we should change the game (society) and don't worry about the players. Not as easy, but that is the only way to truly change it versus putting the blame on the rich.

BTW , there is nothing wrong with being rewarded monetary compensation and ridiculous vast amount of it. The problem I see is how the compensation is being earned.

Does a corporation make more money by doing away with cancer or does it make more money by treating cancer indefinitely? I say give a trillion dollar bonus to the board of directors of a company that comes up with the cure of cancer and let themselves buy 10 80K sq foot mansions with 10000 foot yachts, they earned it in my book.

The issue is not the vast amount of wealth that one individual earns and wastes but rather how the system is designed to benefit the few versus the many.

Also there is more money to be made by global conflict than their is by peace. Perhaps we should change that to benefit governments and corporations with monetary rewards during time of peace.

Also I hope you don't think socialism and communism is any better or the answer, because its human nature to survive and human nature to be greedy.

So you have to have a type of reward, the catch is creating a reward system that benefits everyone and not just the few . However, don't hate the people for being abundantly wealthy when its society that creates and sets the priorities. In addition its usually the poor , middle class workers that worship the rich.

Bottom line: concentrate on how the reward is earned and not on the abundant amount of the reward one individual gets. Either wise your more concerned with envy than really fixing society.

Originally posted by DaRAGE
And how much is that?

Some people think a good life is just owning a home and raising a family.

I would exchange the 'owning an home' for a general sense of security/stability and a general acceptance in society; people want to feel that they are part of society and it's practically impossible to find a substitute for this sense of belonging. On the personal front a husband that wont leave you for something more exciting when he 'makes' it in this competitive world or a women that stays with you despite what you know she knows about you and raising a family in the meantime. I would say this group constitutes 95% or more of all people with the fast majority being to a great degree satisfied with much less than this.

Others think a good life is having millions and mansions and expensive top of the line cars.

Many in the west aspires, meaning they are not trying and wouldn't know how to do it anyways, to this sort of thing and small percentage that makes it to this point largely makes it there as result of serving functions in some kind of state or private corporate machinery that pays them far too much money for doing things that they would probably not do if they understood the full implications. Basically they are 'selected' for in school and given many advantages to excel once the testing reveals that their personality profiles are suitable for work in the corporate/governmental and or military industrial complex. A small but significant percentage breaks into these positions by personal ambition and ability but given the drive and personality profile THAT takes this group isn't often a threat to the status quo as they after all soon have much to lose as well.

Either way if we look at the spending habits of this group they are no happier or satisfied than the other group as the generally try to earn more and more and generally keep wasting it on what is hard to describe as other than more expensive toys which never seem to fill the void created by knowing yourself to be 'different' than the large majority.

Others think a good life is having a huge sprawling corporate empire and being able to influence politics and change in the world.

These 'guys' do not as far as i can tell think that it is a 'good life' . For varying, and normally distressingly strange reasons, these types think that the only way to function in our world is to try and control&change as much of it as possible to your view of it and we should be afraid of their influence for both reasons. As wealth accumulation is generally a zero sum game ( largest fungible is the various costs associated with labor) great wealth is in the long run only built on the large scale expropriation of land from whoever used to live there. Certainly great wealth can be had in society were technology is advancing so quickly ( people like gates and other tech billionaires are too a great extent exceptions) but if you look at the general billionaire ( or on the way there) you will find someone that is earning his wealth trough the underpaid sweat&toil of those who do not have the education and independence of action to do very much about their situation.

But in summary whatever the flaws of the vast majority of humanity they would be PERFECTLY happy with a small piece of land ( sufficient for subsistence living ; that may include ipads and flat screen tv's btw ) and quietly raising a family there.

The point of the post is however that we should not confuse the misguided 'wants' of a tiny minority of humanity with the real ,and i think legitimate, ambitions of the vast majority.

Cheers
Stellar

It's the same thing that drives one to worship a king or queen, even a deity. Desperately living life through them. They symbolize a kind of life, most people want for themselves. The ability to truly affect the world and have virtually unlimited resources to do as you will.

For some people, the wealthy symbolize everything they want in their own lives. As the gap between the wealthy and the poor widens, and our wallets become thinner, worship will be replaced with Hatred and Anger.

Aristocrats shaking in their boots as the angry mobs throw rocks at them and kick them out of town...

reply to post by interupt42


I don't hate the game, or the player, but I do see when the game is screwed up, and recognize dirty players.

The system, and the game are always changing, and right now, the rules are heavily in favor of those who have accumulated large amounts of wealth.

The Brittany Spears of the world don't bother me, or the rest of the celebrity figures. As a kid, we all want that, but most of us quickly learn to see the downside. Fame and fortune also comes with a loss of privacy, and freedom. I have had enough of a taste to say, no thanks.

A large percentage of people don't grow out of that. Celebrity worship is very common, and a great many celebrities love the limelight. There are a lot of people who not only worship celebrities, but wealthy people in general. I would like to say it is due to lack of intelligence, but it is not.

Society doesn't create this system. Mostly, the way that celebrities and wealth is created is through illusions. It is the same concept with religion, and the establishment of nobility. Lots of hype and BS, and very little substance.

People buy into this for lots of reasons. We all want to believe in something better. We like the idea of the dream life, more than the reality of actually living it, but there are also darker reasons.

Many people want to be the king, and control the world, and tell everyone else what to do. Many people want to be told what to do. I suspect that most of the people who want to be king, also want to be told what to do, if they aren't the king.

There is a desire for structure and order by a very large percentage of the population, maybe a majority, that insists that everything is tightly controlled. This, in my opinion, is the biggest reason why people worship wealth and celebrities, it is a sign of order, and control for them.