Views From a Former Christian

I grew up a strong believer understanding that the Bible was THE truth, Jesus was my savior, and God was eternal love. Around 20, I attended a family Bible study where I asked, “Is a kind heart like Gandhi currently having his flesh ripped and roasted for not believing in Jesus? Do our finite actions and choices justify infinite unspeakable pain?”

From then on the questions keep snowballing. “Why is it that animals have certain instincts ingratiated within (migration, nest building, pack mentality…), but God who claims he wants us to know him, holds each of us so preciously, and never wants us to lose our connection him, while he requires others to introduce us to a 2000+ page tome where the receiver must be literate, translate its original language properly, interpret its meaning correctly and trust our very souls within the hands of its writers and editors in order to have knowledge of his very existence. He this does rather than embed the knowledge of him and his word within our hearts and minds just as the bird inherently knows how to build its home. There would be no debate or question of ‘is there a god’ or which god, no misinterpretation, no mistranslation. Leaving only the simple question of “will you follow me”. In addition, I always found the demand of mutilated animals upon an altar very peculiar. Yes this is explained as glorification of him and reparation for sin, with Jesus as the ‘last sacrifice’, but why any sacrifice at all? Why does this omnipotent force of love incarnate demand slaughter? Why not repent with reflection on God through prayer and meditation to recalibrate the heart? Why do these demands reflect so strongly with instructions on how to evoke and empower demons and dark entities? Why does God demand the murder of gay lovers who lie with each other in the OT? Why is God okay with slave abuse and why does he refer to his precious creations as property? Why can’t the forgiveness demonstrated in the NT be applied from the very beginning of the OT? Why would Jesus ever say “I never knew you” to any soul? Why am I told to stop bringing up God’s laws and actions in the OT and just focus on his son? I respond the latter with, “If the tree is rotten, why would I consume its fruit?”
I remain on the fence when it comes to the figure of Jesus. I am more a believer in the Gnostic interpretation of him as a teacher. I agree that love and respect of others (human or non-human) as you love yourself is one of the purest truths. But with humanity’s gap of knowledge in the spiritual realm, we are vulnerable to spiritual manipulation by unknown and misleading forces. But we are told to have faith. Faith that when we surrender our souls to this entity, who claims to be our loving creator according to ancient scrolls, we will be provided with actual proof and rewarded after we are dead. The Bible tell us we are separate from the source of all creation and by surrendering our souls can be connected. (I really hope you are beginning to understand my skepticism) I spot some spiritual red flags here but I’m told it’s because he works in mysterious ways. And so, for not making a commitment, for not surrendering my soul, for not having a full understanding of the spiritual realm and choosing to remain being careful about this individual book and its authors, according to this same book, I am condemned to be tortured for all eternity. Not wiped out of existence, flesh mutilated and charred forever and ever and ever.

I can personally say that navigating and interpreting this existence is difficult. There are some who believe we are only one of infinite realities, that we are plugged into an artificial matrix reality or even that we are the universe experiencing itself subjectively. According to the Holy Bible, we had better have it figured out before our personal existence comes to an end, through old age or taken out instantaneously. God’s love and forgiveness is only as long as your life. The universe can be difficult to fully comprehend and pure love understands this. Sometimes it may take several lifetimes to understand that we are all connected and love is one of the purest forces there is. This is especially true when one is born into an environment without love or abused by a servant of God’s church. This is why forgiveness and love should be provided eternally. I feel that not even Satan should be condemned to that place if his heart truly changed. According to God, it’s one shot. Get your life’s answer wrong and your finite crimes turn to infinite pain.

I believe humanity has only viewed the tip of the iceberg concerning spirit. The energy fields of fear and love do have a resonating effect throughout this reality and this can be scientifically proven. Just research the heart chakra and torsion energy for yourself. Best of all, these Eastern belief systems are subjective! No faith necessary. But I have lost focus of this myself and desired to traverse this new world of material with someone close, like a family member, to join me in exploring this new area. If I can’t convince my family who can I convince? But understandably, they adhere to the Bible as absolute truth as I once did and some strong points would be required to have them to put the book down and question reality for themselves. I have been told by my parents on more than one occasion that I am under the influence of Satan because of my beliefs and because I attempt to point out why I am skeptical of the Bible. A few years back my Christian brother and Christian parents were not talking to each other for over a year and it even came to the point that my brother refused to announce or invite my parents to the birth of their granddaughter. The Bible peaches forgiveness and claims those who surrender receive “the holy spirit”. Being careful of what I surrender myself to, I repealed my baptism years prior. That means they have the holy spirit and I am without. This is merely one example, but what incentive do I have to come back and receive this spirit? What is salvation if you can’t prove there is a hell, it only becomes a word. Why do we not acknowledge psychedelic chemicals (D|M|T) that flood the brain during death and near death experiences? Why can’t we simply love from the heart rather than adhere to the rules and stipulations of love according these ‘holy’ texts, whose followers for ongoing millennia continue to fight over whose interpretation is right? Hurting others hurts us all. Hugs and help feel great! Are we this lost? (con't...)

(cont...) Others have said that I must be sad and angry because they claim I never truly knew God’s love or because I did it all wrong for my first 20 years as a Christian. I am broken because I am told by friends and family that these thoughts are wrong, that I am missing the point, to stop asking so many questions and just have faith, and that no matter what I present to them, I will never convince them about my perspective. I know from my past conviction about Christianity to never again say “I have the truth” no matter how strong I may feel it. There is only information and experience. I will never be able to disprove a single religion, but I am more that capable of using deductive reasoning. That’s 3.85 billion (55% world population) who believe in the god of Abraham and believe I will burn forever. The idea of suicide occasionally arose from the feeling of alienation from the world (most being self-imposed) as I desired to just stop questioning see what’s on the other side, right here and now. But I remember to tell myself “endure, endure, endure” and experience this current existence.

I also feel that religion is artificially perpetuated and used politically to gain and retain power. Divide and conquer is one of the oldest forms of control. So is it not possible for history’s rulers and the rich and powerful to manipulate facts and history to maintain control? Why is it that I get so frustrated when I see corruption, ignorance and just plain stupidity in the world? Because I am genuinely concerned and passionate about not having the world burn by giving away my power and will to the belief that “it’s part of His plan or it’s in His hands”. I am not the one who disassociates from this world believing that Satan is god of this earth (2 Corinthians 4:4), that the tribulation will wipe out the bad stuff and renew everything (Revelation 21) or believing that I am not of this world (John 15:19).

It is not that I continue to ask these questions about God, I have been over with Christianity for years (unless a solid point can be made). Instead I ask the world, "Why do you continue to bow your knees and offer your souls to this demon who calls himself God and claims to be your creator?" The whole world is struggling for answers and solutions but the majority do not like to have their safety blankets tugged on and continue to await a savior.

We simply need each other and the only thing we have power over is the here and now.

Or do I just think too much?

"God is real God is watching"

-The US government.


hmmmm.

Originally posted by 2x Helix
I feel that not even Satan should be condemned to that place if his heart truly changed.

I have been told by my parents on more than one occasion that I am under the influence of Satan because of my beliefs and because.

Your parents speak the truth.

Satan does NOT...

Satan CHOSE his own destination...

He has NO interest in Heaven.

ALL of us choose our own destiny.

Many of your questions are answered in a film I watched recently...

"The Encounter" is about five strangers who find themselves stranded at a mysterious diner with a man who somehow has all of the answers to their problems.

Melisa: But surely no one would choose that if they knew you really existed?

Jesus: Not so, nobody goes into hell blindfolded. In one way or another, I've revealed myself to everyone.

Melisa: But if they could just see you...

Jesus: Not even that would be enough. Look at satan, he stood before me in the very throne room of God. But he thought the beauty and the power bestowed was somehow earned. Gave himself over to pride. Scratch any sin and just below the surface you'll find pride... Source

"I'm a gentleman Nick, I'll never force myself on you or anyone.

Nick, what would be more unjust and unfair, for me to steal you at the moment of your death and force you to live in my presence and in my will for all eternity.

Hell on the other hand is a place where you'll be completely free from all of my "though shalt nots"... FOREVER."

reply to post by 2x Helix


Good post OP! Welcome to fold of liberated XChristians. What's that smell? Ah, fresh air!

All religious indoctrination is child abuse perpetuated and perpetrated over and over again across generations by people who never asked the questions you did, or were afraid to consider the answers.

Congratulations on getting out of the evil fairy tale that is biblical propaganda.

If the bible had been truly written by 'god', it would contain helpful references to such mysteries as germs, or lightning, or the nature of the universe. Since it does not, it's relatively easy to conclude the bible was written by seriously uninformed humans, not the omniscient.

All the rest is analysis paralysis. Let it go.

You might want to watch the science fiction movie 'Man From Earth' by Jerome Bixby available on Netflix to get a handle on how the Jesus myth might have started and become so convoluted. A simple wise man urging people to become more kind and spiritual and whose teachings were corrupted by power-brokers for their own purposes.

...i see you are on the way becóming one, 2xH

and a solid one, too -
having battled with all the legitimate questions.

Dont worry.
regards

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by 2x Helix

 

Good post OP! Welcome to fold of liberated XChristians. What's that smell? Ah, fresh air!

I'll second that.

"Why do you continue to bow your knees and offer your souls to this demon who calls himself God and claims to be your creator?"

You already know the answer to this question. Each individual has to come to the conclusions, you, I, Windword, and others have come to, on their own. We can't do it for them. All we will do is strengthen their resolve. My own family is still in shock that I am a heathen.

Fresh air indeed.

reply to post by 2x Helix


I can relate to your post in a major way. While I know we each have our own unique story, what you wrote sounds a lot like something I would have written when I was around 20. I'm 28 now. I grew up in a similar environment, went to church and educated entirely in a Christian private school. I accepted the Lord into my life as a child and was baptized at age 9 in the Jordan River. By 17, I was literally going to the bathroom and crying during Bible classes. I was frustrated because my mind was flooded with thoughts like the thoughts you've expressed in your op. I was having an extremely hard time coming to terms with what I had always believed, the general worldview held by my Christian peers and family. And it was painful. When I was 20, I vividly remember telling my mom I was not a Christian.By 21, I was trying to let go of God when I realized he wouldn't let go of me.

I basically told God I wanted to know him, understand his word and believe in his love and be known by him. I don't know how to explain it, but the Holy Spirit came to me. I started reading the Bible and it was as if I was reading it for the first time. Understanding came to me.

You are free to seek truth far and wide. Do not allow others, family included, tell you who God is

Why can’t the forgiveness demonstrated in the NT be applied from the very beginning of the OT? Why would Jesus ever say “I never knew you” to any soul? Why am I told to stop bringing up God’s laws and actions in the OT and just focus on his son? I respond the latter with, “If the tree is rotten, why would I consume its fruit?”

Israel is meant to be a light unto the Gentiles. The Jews and Israel exist to show that God's word is true, as spoken by the prophets, so it will be.

And so, for not making a commitment, for not surrendering my soul, for not having a full understanding of the spiritual realm and choosing to remain being careful about this individual book and its authors, according to this same book, I am condemned to be tortured for all eternity. Not wiped out of existence, flesh mutilated and charred forever and ever and ever.

You are free to seek truth far and wide. Do not allow others, family included, tell you who God is or what is spiritually required of you.

"My son, if you accept my words
and store up my commands within you,
turning your ear to wisdom
and applying your heart to understanding—indeed, if you call out for insight
and cry aloud for understanding,
and if you look for it as for silver
and search for it as for hidden treasure,
then you will understand the fear of the Lord
and find the knowledge of God.
For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
He holds success in store for the upright,
he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
for he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
Then you will understand what is right and just
and fair—every good path.
For wisdom will enter your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
Discretion will protect you,
and understanding will guard you." Proverbs 2

Why can’t we simply love from the heart rather than adhere to the rules and stipulations of love according these ‘holy’ texts, whose followers for ongoing millennia continue to fight over whose interpretation is right?

God's love does not expire upon death. His love endures forever. And no one, absolutely no one, has any business saying what is the "right" interpretation of the Bible.

This is what it says:

"The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
'For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?' But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Corinthians 2

All the best to you.

very sweet what you wrote

thank you 2x helix


most kindly

...i see you are on the way becóming one, 2xH and a solid one, too - having battled with all the legitimate questions.

reply to post by Lone12


I do agree

kindly

TextThe whole world is struggling for answers and solutions

reply to post by 2x Helix


heartache

Originally posted by 2x Helix
Others have said that I must be sad and angry because they claim I never truly knew God’s love or because I did it all wrong for my first 20 years as a Christian. I am broken because I am told by friends and family that these thoughts are wrong,

You are NOT broken because you abandoned your faith....LOL..see you actually have a guilt feeling...which is kind of sad.

You are broken because you believed ridiculous indoctrinations for 20+ years which (as per their nature) CAN NOT and will not EVER "answer" any meaningful questions. It's a belief. It's "something someone tells you".

You cannot experience God's existence and the truth of it all by listening to the words of your 70 year old preacher in a cold, dusty church. God won't jump out between bible pages just by reading the bible. God wont "come to you" just because you go to Church every Sunday at 10am.

You have been lied to for a good part of your life and THIS is why you are sad and broken.

Understanding the lies and the inability and actually unwillingness of the church to really EXPERIENCE spirituality and to really start to "understand" in some way about the truth of it all is a good thing. So...you should not be broken but rather celebrate you are off the chains and intellectual/mental/SPIRITUAL !!!! restraints the church imposed on you for decades.

Only with that freedom and finally being allowed to see you will be able to find "god" or "the creator" or whatever its/his/her name is. You know that already, this is why you made your decision. STOP with your guilt. You already know what is right and not, there is no reason for guilt.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Just because a person may not want to go to heaven to worship a spirit claiming to be a "god" for all eternity, that does not necessarily mean that they want to be tortured for all eternity.

Threatening violence for not doing what you are asked is NOT called freedom. Freedom is being able to choose free from threats from others.

If I want to choose pancakes or waffles for breakfast, no one is threatening to torture me for all eternity. THat is freedom and choice. Now if I want to choose a religion and they start threatening with eternal torture then that is manipulation and threatening not a pure free-choice for control of others.

It's not the questions we ask, but the way they are answered that we seek. We want a scientific answer that can be observed with our 5 senses, but comes without the faith.

reply to post by NoRulesAllowed

Understanding the lies and the inability and actually unwillingness of the church to really EXPERIENCE spirituality and to really start to "understand" in some way about the truth of it all is a good thing.

Text

unwillingness?

that is not a very kind statement, you just made.."how can those ones .= "the church"....just as much as = yourself ..experience His so Gorgeous Love...if that Love is not shown them.?..by no fault of their own...when He is is so longing to....but only because Evil...blocks His Love...

why blame..."church"...or Him?...why not put the blame where it really belongs... with Evil

reply to post by Sole3


He makes some *willing* whom He loves very much..but those ones know why...it is because He loves very much, equally so, those whom are incapable of being willing...through no fault of their own...that is His Love

reply to post by Sole3


kindly

bless

reply to post by Sole3


the point is...I too was *unwilling*..because of Evil....until He did persuade me...so sweetly..so gorgeously.. His World...

the Guilt...is Evil's attempt to ugly attach Evil to Him, what does not belong to Him (in Him is no Darkness) ...I'm very sorry for Him...that Evil has distorted Him...to humans..

knd regards

reply to post by 2x Helix

wow apostasy is becoming a routine.