Google claims Gmail users have no ‘reasonable expectation’ their emails are private

Well, from the horses mouth of " Do No Evil ":

Source

Gmail users have no “reasonable expectation” that their emails are confidential, Google has said in a court filing.

Consumer Watchdog, the advocacy group that uncovered the filing, called the revelation a “stunning admission.” It comes as Google and its peers are under pressure to explain their role in the National Security Agency’s (NSA) mass surveillance of US citizens and foreign nationals.

“Google has finally admitted they don’t respect privacy,” said John Simpson, Consumer Watchdog’s privacy project director. “People should take them at their word; if you care about your email correspondents’ privacy, don’t use Gmail.”

Google set out its case last month in an attempt to dismiss a class action lawsuit that accuses the tech giant of breaking wire tap laws when it scans emails in order to target ads to Gmail users.

That suit, filed in May, claims Google “unlawfully opens up, reads, and acquires the content of people’s private email messages.” It quotes Eric Schmidt, Google’s executive chairman: “Google policy is to get right up to the creepy line and not cross it.”

I think Google has changed it's definition of what it means to be evil. I think it now means not supporting the government by any means necessary for corporate profit.

Simpson, a long-term Google critic, said: “Google’s brief uses a wrong-headed analogy; sending an email is like giving a letter to the Post Office. I expect the Post Office to deliver the letter based on the address written on the envelope. I don’t expect the mail carrier to open my letter and read it.

I think this hits the nail on the head quite nicely. Google is now fully 100% complicit in domestic and international spying for Governments.

Question is, if they are willing to bend to political pressure, I wonder what private interests are able to get out of Google for the right price?

~Tenth

You know something? My cable company offers 100mbs connection performance with dedicated IP now specifically in a residential/business hybrid for homes. It's designed for people to run their own servers and such. I've been very seriously considering taking them up on it and rather than pay someone $100/month to lease server space as I've done in the past? Why not just build and run my own.

Stories like this make me ask more and more why I don't just do it. If you can run an Apache install for a web server, you can run an install to handle Email as well. Why beg off the big guys when it's literally doable in one's own home for so many of us now? Google and others would LOVE to make people believe that servers are mystical magic boxes it takes much time and arcane knowledge to master and operate.

Bull Puckey!

A teenager with a week's spare time and the focus to sit 8 hours a day could learn to run web and mail on a dedicated home computer with the connection to support it (which has been the problem until recently). Google really SCREAMS out for people to put more time into learning these details and cutting them out entirely for services like Email. Privacy isn't expected...it's DEMANDED...and they've lost countless accounts for business after admitting that on the record, I'll bet.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I realized this back when that google executive basically said that
source

'If You Have Something You Don't Want Anyone To Know, Maybe You Shouldn't Be Doing It'

Which is why I dont use gmail for anything but a spare email addy..

I will be using this Startmail as soon as it becomes available

reply to post by Sharingan


Thanks for the link, I didn't know there was a proper service coming out soon.

As for Google, this makes me wonder more about their other products.

Google Wallet? Is it unreasonable for me to expect you to keep that part of my online stuff private?

What does this mean for Google Glass when it starts uploading your whole life to the internet?

Minority report comes to mind.

~Tenth

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yeah I have a mail server running on my laptop right now with its own domain and everything. It's just for app testing though, but anyone can run whatever type of server they want. Your own social network if you want.

But it's such a hassle so people let Google and Microsoft do the hard work for them. Problem is, when you store your stuff someone else's server well they might be tempted to look at it. If you have anything private encrypt that stuff.

Nothing that is posted on the internet is private. Unless you own ALL the equipment used to transmit, transfer, and receive, this is the case. If anything was private, there would not be copies of your missives accessible for back-up. The only way, this day and age, to ensure that our communications are private and secure is face to face communication in the middle of nowhere, all persons involved naked inside a secure bunker that houses no electronics.

This is just my opinion tho.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


And this right here is the solution. Next up, people need to figure out a way to bypass ISP's and create their own. User driven ISP's with user managed servers are the only way to put a stop to this nonsense since it is obvious that the government doesn't give a @*!#.

I'm sort of dumb when it comes to the technical details of exactly what would be needed to set up an ISP. I know for most internet connections you either need cable, DSL, or satellite but I'm not exactly sure WHY. Where does the wiring go and why? Would there be a way for a person to set up their own ramp to the internet and completely bypass ISP's? Does anyone have a better grasp of the technical hurdles that could offer some insight?

If we can power our own homes off the grid, why not set up our own access to the internet?

reply to post by tinfoilman

It sure is coming to that, isn't it? I think peeking has always happened. Heck, the OLD BBS software had modes where a Sysop/Admin could "drop in" on someone's session and watch in a real time mode. Their typing in real time with every typo and backspace as they made one. That was interesting ....ahem..in theory ..not saying I ever used such a feature or anything... (whistles on.... )

I don't ever recall it being systemic and done by open policy like it is now though. Running our own services/servers may be what it comes down to for a simple sense of basic daily privacy. It still does nothing for an NSA level player who wants to look ...but it at least stops the routine, daily violation of screening and scanning it sounds like everything gets.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


This Canadian community thought it would be a great idea to stop paying outrageous internet costs for services that are largely low cost.

So a few million dollars and some hard work, and as you'll read they offer a service that is better than any other incumbent speed wise as well as price wise. So, self serve options for like minded communities or groups of people separated by vast distances is certainly feasible.

~Tenth

Can anyone recommend an email server that is up and running at the moment?

Seen the startmail one posted above but is there any others that would'nt be 'as' bad as gmail?

Originally posted by Lady_Tuatha
Can anyone recommend an email server that is up and running at the moment?

Seen the startmail one posted above but is there any others that would'nt be 'as' bad as gmail?

startmail will also be charging money for their e-mail service, which is unfortunate. I guess if you care about privacy enough it would be worth the cost. I can't see how else they could fund their project if they are as secure as they claim, since they couldn't generate income from invasive advertising policies.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Tit for tat

I think it would be obvious that the relationship existing between a government and a corporation in capitalist society would be and is a two way street. Corporations pressure government for changes and in turn, government pressures corporations for information.

It sure would be a shame if all that political access some corporations enjoy was suddenly removed.

The question becomes can you do anything about it. If you want to continue enjoying your relatively “cost-free” services and programs, one should expect a company like google to respond as it did.

The lack of awareness is a major issue and the lack of public interest in reading the fine print is an issue. Promoting awareness is the first step in my opinion and let people make informed decisions.

If you don’t care about your correspondence or searches being monitored then go ahead. Just be aware that a list exists with your name on it.

Yes well, when someone does come along and try to "do no evil", we all know what happens to them, now don't we?

COUGH*Lavabit*COUGH

So basically, do evil and be in business. God Bless the USA!!!

So, are they coming out with this publicly, as a show to the government, so they don't get shut down like Lavabit and the other one that chose to close?

Will any of them be able to actually stand up to the government?
This is just getting ridiculous.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


Here is an article with some nice information and a few alternatives on the 2nd and 3rd pages.. May be worth checking out.

Link

Last week, FBI raids on Freedom Hosting and child porn distributors took down Tor Mail, a secure email provider for users of the Tor network. A few days later, secure email provider Lavabit, which had previously provided whistleblower Edward Snowden with an email address, closed its doors. Its owner left a cryptic message stating he’d been forced to choose between betraying the American people and shutting down. It’s possible that Snowden wasn’t the target — a search warrant for child pornography was executed against [email protected] on June 10 — but it’s possible that the two cases together had an impact on the decision to shut down the service. The day after Lavabit closed, Silent Circle announced it would also discontinue its own secure email client. With multiple vendors dropping out of the race at the same time that consumer interest in secure email services is heating up, what are your options?

reply to post by MDDoxs

The lack of awareness is a major issue and the lack of public interest in reading the fine print is an issue. Promoting awareness is the first step in my opinion and let people make informed decisions.

This is 90% of the problem. If people were aware not only that their data is being saved and combed through, but for what reasons and how, I think we'd see a major shift in public opinion.

As it stands though, the beltway makes sure we only spend about 4 minutes a week on real issues, and the rest of time wondering why Justin Bieber spit on a fan.

~Tenth

I'm just now getting rid of yahoo mail because they updated to a new version that freezes more than water in alaska in the middle of winter.....sooooooooooo slooooooooow

And was getting ready to transfer over to gmail...... But knowing google/gmail is NSA's little BEEATCH!!!!! What other options are there seriously???

I don't want to deal, nor do I have time to, mess with my own sever, firewalls, encryption, etc...would rather just have an email service that does not get on it's knees for US GOV/NSA

Well, basically, any "service" that is open (edit:meaning currently in use), is complying. No way is ANY email service safe, NONE... period assume it's all being watched because ... it IS. It's just, Google is the big guy in town and gave lots of lip service to doing no evil. So yeah.. whatever AOL, MS, Yahoo, Verizon, Optimum, (insert other ISP and/or email provider here) pick your poison, they are ALL poison!

But basically, any service that is open and running... is wide open for snooping. And any that does claim to be "secure" is either lying, or compromised in some way. Otherwise, it will not last. Because you can bet they will not let something they cannot pry into, stay alive for very long.

Until the people, en masse DEMAND legislation to allow for individual digital privacy (not that it will ever happen i LOL at the pipe-dreaminess of it all) ... nothing is going to change.

Hi, email fans.

I did not had the choice but to use G00gle mail, because of my internet provider.

But for privacy, I am not to much concerned because I leave NOTHING on the site !
I do it by using POP, to download/upload my mails.

I configured G00gle and Thunderbird to DOWNLOAD ALL my mails on my hard disk, and
to delete all that has been downloaded and/or delivered to destination !

Sooooo there is nothing to spy by anybody. . .all folders are empty !

Blue skies.

Google claims Gmail users have no ‘reasonable expectation’ their emails are private

Ive just about had enough of these orwellian creeps.

This piece of news needs to be repeated and distributed far and wide.

A court order should force Google to have a pop-up for everyone who signs up for a Gmail-Account. The pop-up should read: "Don't expect your emails to be private!".