Netherlands is closing 19 prisons due to a serious prisoner shortage.

This is not a pro-druguse thread.

A decline in crime in the Netherlands left so many prison cells empty that in 2009, the Dutch justice ministry announced that it would close eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. Last week, the Dutch government announced revised plans to close 19 prisons, according to a Dutch TV station.

Source

now.msn.com...

Very interesting in my opinion. Budget cuts and well, some people might have lost their jobs, although at the end the ends justifies the means, why keep running a prison on the expense of the tax payer, when there are no criminals to fill it.

Of course, one of the reasons lies in the soft drug policies, although the low incarceration rates have nothing to do with drug users not being locked up as the amount of drug users is significantly lower in Netherlands than in other EU countries or North America. For example, there are nearly two times less cannabis addicts, 4 times less coc aine addicts and three times less heroin addicts per capita in Netherlands compared to United States. Forbidden fruit nearly always tastes better, I guess.

I believe one of the reasons lies in the no need for soft drug business. Most money for the organised crime comes from the drug business, although it dries up when there is no need to go to the black market to try something. Most small time criminals start as a drug dealer, although its not worth it if the need is lower. After all, a very large amount of the drug business money comes from the soft drugs, as most people are smart enough not to try anything very addictive.

Also the policy that differs a lot from many other countries is using prisons rather as a rehabilitation than a punishment, same goes for drug addicts. A lot of drug addicts want to although are not able to, either mentally or financially to quit on their own, so the government provides free-of-charge rehabilitation for them. At the end it is cheaper than locking them up, also it loses the desperation of many drug users to go and get some money for next dose, often by illegal means. If there is an option to quit, many use it.

I am personally not supportive at all towards any kind of such drug use, personally never used, never will, although as these policies have proven themselves to be more effective than the current policies in other EU countries. I believe in the rehabilitation rather than punishment, as at the end such means have far more positive means on the overall state of the society. Also a lot of money spent on fighting the drug-related crime could be rather used on strong anti-drug campaigns and rehabilitation programs for the drug addicts to help them return to the society as a normal citizen rather than a desparate/angry person trying to find a way (any way) to earn some money for coming over the strong withdrawal effects he/she has nearly no control over. Quitting is tough, I know it as a smoker, and I would not even manage how hard it would be to quit something stronger.

I know this thread went to the drug topic, although this is one of the reasons on the lower incarceration rates in Netherlands and one of the reasons which lead to closing the 19 prisons. Maybe something to learn for many governments, including mine.

Obviously they dont have enough nonsensical, pre-crime, bureaucratic laws on the books to support a prison-industrial complex economy.

They should really get moving on that if they wish to achieve the greatness that America has achieved.

Maybe America can pick up there slack so to speak!

I hear they are in the market for some extra Gaol cells. : LoL

That is so out of sync with my experience as a 'Merican, that I had to read the title twice to comprehend it. "Prisoner shortage" took a while to compute...

Haha, Our government isn't going to like that decision.. ( Belgium )
We have a prison shortage, and our government tried to make an agreement with the Netherlands to use theirs to put our prisoners lol.

Well Belgium should communicate with Netherlands, talk it out come to some compromise and use them. this world is so wasteful. ready built prisons and they are to be shut down, and next door needs prisons and they will have to build new ones if they need some that bad,.... how stupid is that... eu my ass

Have you seen what the Netherland prisons look like inside? They actually treat people with dignity, and have come to find out that approach tends to work better then a punitive system like we have in the US.

My friend has recently moved to the Netherlands and he is (after a month) already trying to persuade me to move.

The guy in question is without a doubt the most loyal Briton i know, so i was VERY shocked to hear him say what he did about the lovely flat lands

Nice people, low crime, drugs under control, low violence, good polices reasonable weather the list goes on.0

Wow ?

They close because of the massive budget cuts. Not because of a lack of prisoners...
They hand out more work duties and ankle braces, for a home arrest.

Only because they don't want to pay the personal, that control the system.

Prisoners are also sharing cells, while there are alot still empty, it's just a waste.

The whole idea is to cut a few million Euro. A tiny drop of the billions they plan to cut anyway.
A dumb idea too. People with house arrest also need surveillance.
Wholoecommunities will be damaged because their towns got payed by the prison system or indirectly by it.
Lots of jobs will be lost.

It's a crime.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


"Have you seen what the Netherland prisons look like inside? They actually treat people with dignity, and have come to find out that approach tends to work better then a punitive system like we have in the US."

Apparently the Cells if you care to call them such are larger than my current flat and have adjoining living area, some even have en suites! I wonder what room service is like?

I would consider it a privilege to do some bird in there nation! LoL

Such a lovely respectable nation.

Pretty laid back folks over in Holland-Its a great country on many levels.
I cycled all over it a few years back,Ok I did get a bike nicked in Amsterdam,but that was my own fault.
Great place though,very chilled out cops I thought-but helpful too if you needed any directions or help.

The UK could take a few tips from the Dutch IMO.

Has anyone found the official statement to the later revision where they plan to shut down 19 prisons? All I've found is this being regurgitated across news blogs/sites without any official sources mentioned.

I spent 6 mths in Den Hague last year and what a lovely time I had. The only trouble I experienced was with drunken british tourists. God I was so embarrassed to be a Brit then. The dutch are a lovely people and every where I went I was met with kindness and politeness. Closing prisons down? It seems that their system works. Maybe other countries could try their approach as our prisons in the UK are at bursting point.

They closed 19 prisons? How many did they leave open and why do they have so many freaking prisons? Their country is tiny. Minuscule. Their population is what, 17 million? If they were a U.S. state they would rank 43rd in square miles. Sounds like they had a ton of prisons.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
Wow ?

They close because of the massive budget cuts. Not because of a lack of prisoners...
They hand out more work duties and ankle braces, for a home arrest.

Only because they don't want to pay the personal, that control the system.

Prisoners are also sharing cells, while there are alot still empty, it's just a waste.

The whole idea is to cut a few million Euro. A tiny drop of the billions they plan to cut anyway.
A dumb idea too. People with house arrest also need surveillance.
Wholoecommunities will be damaged because their towns got payed by the prison system or indirectly by it.
Lots of jobs will be lost.

It's a crime.

So you see how news can be misinterpreted

We have a waiting list now for the prisons. Some three years after your crime (when you work hard to live a life withut crime) you can still be put in prisons or get an ankle brace

The big ""crime"" here is closing all those prisons. We do live in a low crime place, but with all the criminals waiting years for a place inside, I think we will have a lot more crime in the coming years.

Of all the budget cuts we had to face in the last years, this is the most ridiculous.
.

reply to post by notsosunny


The worsd thing is, this is just an idea of a politician with a view. Years from now they realize multiple people in a cell causes problems. The system needs a make over, costing millions again..

Statistically almost all crime statistics are still getting lower, but as long as we get less to spend over and over agsin. People will start to earn money with other means and other reasons will make people do things to get money too. I suggest they won't break them down just yet....

Originally posted by Senduko
Haha, Our government isn't going to like that decision.. ( Belgium )
We have a prison shortage, and our government tried to make an agreement with the Netherlands to use theirs to put our prisoners lol.

Before you know it some country or others main import and business model is going to be a new world prison country.

All countries might dump their prison populations in one place, a huge prison that used to be a country..maybe that's what the US gov has in mind with all these 800 fema camps?

America really might become the worlds prison planet after all.

Charming thought eh?

Originally posted by Senduko
Haha, Our government isn't going to like that decision.. ( Belgium )
We have a prison shortage, and our government tried to make an agreement with the Netherlands to use theirs to put our prisoners lol.

Yeah lol , i Live in the South of the Netherlands , Close to the Belgium Border , the Jail in my City ( Tilburg ) houses belgium Inmates , and has a Dutch and Belgium Flag waving outside

Originally posted by Biigs
My friend has recently moved to the Netherlands and he is (after a month) already trying to persuade me to move.

The guy in question is without a doubt the most loyal Briton i know, so i was VERY shocked to hear him say what he did about the lovely flat lands

Nice people, low crime, drugs under control, low violence, good polices reasonable weather the list goes on.0

After several visits to holland (one school bike ride, the rest all 'recreational' weekend breaks) I have considered retiring to Amsterdam. Every time I've been it's been the most peaceful trips I've been on. People are friend (even the police) the streets seem tidy and overall just seems a lovely place to live. Being only 28 though I've got a long way to go before I retire .. The world will be a different place by then

Originally posted by jjkenobi
They closed 19 prisons? How many did they leave open and why do they have so many freaking prisons? Their country is tiny. Minuscule. Their population is what, 17 million? If they were a U.S. state they would rank 43rd in square miles. Sounds like they had a ton of prisons.

That's why they go by per capita data, so going by number of people incarcerated per 100,000 people a country has then the US leads the world on a staggering 716. Netherlands is a mere 82.

So per 100,000 people, the US has almost 9 times the amount of prisoners.

Your point about size is meaningless, they didn't have a "ton of prisons" at all.