Lets End the Fantasy of "being employed" or Having a Career in America

Originally posted by Brotherman
reply to post by supremecommander

 

IDK I can't fathom using all of the money I had to start a business without having any real knowledge and everything else required to run a business. I am sure the simple solution is to hire someone that knows better but if you don't have the capital or a solid plan then you are doomed to fail no matter what kind of wishy washy optimism one may have, you do not have to believe in the ocean to drown.

For those with no capital or attributes to make you a successful entrepreneur I do not suggest starting your own business until you get the resources and proper knowledge and education to make you successful.

My friend who makes the office furniture spent one hundred dollars as an initial investment, without knowing that he was starting a business. It does take 10s or 1000s to start up a traditional brick-and-mortar retail business, which is why I do not recommend doing so.

One statistic that you failed to mention is that the average business owner whose business is worth more than $500,000 has started at least 3 previous businesses that failed.

It is an incredibly hard thing to get a business into a long-term successful operation.

On the other hand, I have had a business fail. But when it went out, I still got to keep the company car, the tools, office equipment, etc that we had used up to that point. It lasted long enough.

You can give me a hundred reasons not to start your own business.
And all I can say in response is, "It just might work."

But for the one who is ready to risk it, it's really all that needs to be said.

reply to post by tovenar


My whole point is, is that if you dont even have a house a cell phone a car etc etc etc which so many ppl do not it is not a good idea to take what you have to start something up especially if you lack the skills knowledge abilities or decent plan to make it work.

reply to post by Brotherman


I hear you; I simply disagree.

I have a lot of friends in the Mexican immigrant community. They routinely start businesses, often with absolutely nothing. And I mean nothing.

A lot of their "success" are totally unimpressive to the majority US culture. But it is rewarding enough for them that they keep doing it.

Did you know that the number 2 profession of millionaires in the U.S. is "owner of a janitorial services company"? Almost all of them are immigrants or 2nd generation Americans. Janitorial services has very little overhead--the product is almost entirely labor. It DOES require major people skills to motivate the people you'd hire to do the actual cleaning work. A woman I know who has maybe 20 people working for her still cleans some office every week, because someone didn't show up for work. Yet she is a millionaire, in the sense of having a net worth of more than a million dollars.

Now, you probably don't want to be a millionaire if it means scrubbing other people's restrooms; but that reflects your own personal limitations, and not a broken-ness of the economy as a whole.

And yes you could found your own janitorial services company. Prove me wrong.

reply to post by tovenar


I think soaring unemployment rates, rising poverty, and homelessness in America tends to disagree. Besides, in my area the temp agency dominates the cleaning sector. If it is so simple why is their so many jobless, so many homeless so many living in poverty? Is it because they are just lazy and setting the bar to high? I can agree to disagree with you respectfully.

In case some are interested:

10 Easy steps to start a janitorial business

I know things in this country are bad when I firmly believe that Putin is more concerned with his people than Obama is with the average American. Obama IS concerned with those that aren't legal citizens, and those too lazy to work, and people like Al Sharpton, but the average middle class family can go to hell, as far as Obama is concerned.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Maybe we should immigrate to Mexico and start a cartel cleaning business, I hear it is great this time of year and they have a lower incarcerationn rate in America by almost half!

40 Statistics About The Fall Of The U.S. Economy That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe If you know someone that actually believes that the U.S. economy is in good shape, just show them the statistics in this article. When you step back and look at the long-term trends, it is undeniable what is happening to us. We are in the midst of a horrifying economic decline that is the result of decades of very bad decisions. 30 years ago, the U.S. national debt was about one trillion dollars. Today, it is almost 17 trillion dollars. 40 years ago, the total amount of debt in the United States was about 2 trillion dollars. Today, it is more than 56 trillion dollars. At the same time that we have been running up all of this debt, our economic infrastructure and our ability to produce wealth has been absolutely gutted. Since 2001, the United States has lost more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities and millions of good jobs have been shipped overseas. Our share of global GDP declined from 31.8 percent in 2001 to 21.6 percent in 2011. The percentage of Americans that are self-employed is at a record low, and the percentage of Americans that are dependent on the government is at a record high. The U.S. economy is a complete and total mess, and it is time that we faced the truth. The following are 40 statistics about the fall of the U.S. economy that are almost too crazy to believe...

Source

We are in the midst of a horrifying economic decline that is the result of decades of very bad decisions. 30 years ago, the U.S. national debt was about one trillion dollars. Today, it is almost 17 trillion dollars. 40 years ago, the total amount of debt in the United States was about 2 trillion dollars. Today, it is more than 56 trillion dollars. At the same time that we have been running up all of this debt, our economic infrastructure and our ability to produce wealth has been absolutely gutted.

I point this part out as it states "...is the result of decades of very bad decisions" I was not even alive yet when these decisions were being made, yet we/ I have to deal with them. The charts linked are pretty self explanatory, I still maintain this is not exactly the conditions one with nothing should embrace in to start a business. Furthermore, I tend to see lots of these start up businesses everyone talks about being based on services, hospitality, and all that neat stuff is flawed because without industry and manufacturing creating real tangable products there is nothing of value and money will run out. About businesses around here from the source provided:

#19 Small business is rapidly dying in America. At this point, only about 7 percent of all non-farm workers in the United States are self-employed. That is an all-time record low.

kind of reminds me of this:

Oh Brotherman, what a nice thread to let me vent in. This is a topic I have some experience in. S+F sir!

I have been contracting in the tech industry in Washington state for about 14 years now. The whole 1 year contract then UI then look for work and contract again works for me as an artist; I just want a mindless job that gives me time to paint and pays the bills until the art finally can (hopefully).

My first contract was for microsoft in Redmond, working for a huge agency that staffed thousands, and made easily 100% markup on my hourly wage and offered optional mediocre healthcare at a lousy cost, and i started around $15/hr with options for TONS of OT, and a raise every 6 months based on evaluation. There were so many people there making tons of money and it showed, but it wasn't the contractors doing the majority of the work. The very last contract there they were starting to outsource their testing to china.

5 years later I worked for cingular and they were even worse, the agencies out there were making more, jobs payed great, but the work was a JOKE. Nothing made sense and the product was essentially hip hop answertones, what!? AT&T bought them out right before I actually bailed on my contract once I realized how underpaid I was. They were outsourcing their testing to china as well as india, and hired many unskilled, underpaid workers with work visas locally. My first month at that job I heard more car alarms going off because disgruntled ex-workers were keying manager's cars. The most popular car in the lot at that time was either a humvee or dodge monster truck. My agency was violating so many moral and legal codes I had to leave.

Then I went on to contract for few other mainstream agencies outsourcing to giants like MS, or at least in business because of that crappy operating system. Most of these agencies outsourced to other countries, mostly india and china.

Currently I am in probably the worst contract I've had yet, making less than my very first contract (no insurance/benefits/option for FT), working for one of the richest companies yet, and rhymes with bugle. I think I might know why they are so rich. The majority of grunt work is done by outsourced and underpaid contractors.... ME! The image of the average employee at this company is that of someone overpaid and treated like a king. This is entirely not the case in the current scheme at this sweatshop. I work in a cubicle environment worse than I've ever experienced. The hardware is inadequate and mistreated, the management is disfunctional and clueless, the internal app is confusing clunky and has no documantation. They have no idea how to process a bug or truly communicate in an effective manner, and they have bizarre policies that are updated as frequently as their unstable software. They are HEAVILY dependent on outsourcing to india.

This industry is going in a bad direction fast and I am focusing as much energy as I have on my art and other skills that apply to a real world (like cooking, farming). I am not burning my bridges but seriously this tech job industry well is drying up fast.

Contracting agencies made out like bandits from day one, guaranteed.

reply to post by Aliquandro


I can totally relate to you on the art angle. That is what I really want to be doing, and what I spend almost every hour awake, when I am not doing menial crap like work. When I am not working or making art, I am usually snapping a million photos to use for reference images and textures, beats paying for them

Also the sinking wages, I am making less now than when I started in the construction industry some 13 odd years ago with no experience. It is surreal. In hindsight I probably should have begged my neighbor to fire his assistant and hire and train me as a plumber

Maybe we should immigrate to Mexico and start a cartel cleaning business, I hear it is great this time of year and they have a lower incarcerationn rate in America by almost half!

reply to post by Brotherman


I'll do you one better. Why not go to Mexico, then sneak back across the border, disguised as illegal aliens, and get free health care, free college for our kids, free welfare, and all the other goodies Obama is handing out to illegals.

The hardware is inadequate and mistreated, the management is disfunctional and clueless, the internal app is confusing clunky and has no documantation. They have no idea how to process a bug or truly communicate in an effective manner, and they have bizarre policies that are updated as frequently as their unstable software. They are HEAVILY dependent on outsourcing to india.

reply to post by Aliquandro

Are you sure you're not working for the US government? The environment sure sounds like it,

reply to post by liejunkie01

The only way for it to get better is for people to stand up together and make their voice be heard. But i think that is pretty much a pipe dream no because of the greedy selfish nature that we have become used to.

That and the fear of being sprayed and beaten to death by a cop.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

The hardware is inadequate and mistreated, the management is disfunctional and clueless, the internal app is confusing clunky and has no documantation. They have no idea how to process a bug or truly communicate in an effective manner, and they have bizarre policies that are updated as frequently as their unstable software. They are HEAVILY dependent on outsourcing to india.

reply to post by Aliquandro

 

Are you sure you're not working for the US government? The environment sure sounds like it,

I posted who I contract for, If you research any of my posts you'll clearly deduce I do not work for the gov, but test broken garbage for huge IT industries while I try to get my art on... sir I am sorry if I come across as a gov shill I am merely a disgruntled software test contractor (gov seriously??), now please do not derail this thread.

reply to post by Aliquandro


I think he was making the point about the government being disfunctional and clueless.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Aliquandro

 

I think he was making the point about the government being disfunctional and clueless.

Since I've never worked for uncle sam I don't make the connect, but I thought that's why the internet invented emoticons for the inferred crap, right?

Sorry if my BS $14/hr job for one of the world's richest companies makes me slightly defensive

Bottom line in life, people that know what they are doing makes anything look easy. What I do may look easy, but yeah, it really is not easy. I have seen what floors look like when amateurs install and sand them, it is not pretty at all. I have seen what tilework looks like when done by amateurs, it's not pretty. I have seen what framing looks like when done by amateurs it's not pretty.

I guess it can really be like that with any job out there. I am a master at wood flooring, and at tilingwork, and it took years in each trade to reach that level. I have had situations in floor sanding, where I went and resanded, stained and finished jobs that I did years before(not because the job was crap, but because they wanted to change colors). The difference is night and day. I learned many little tricks that made everything go easier etc.

The problem with amateurs in the construction business, it might be a year or two down the line before you start seeing problems with the work. By that time, the company might not even exist anymore, and if they do if no warranty exists in the contracts, you are prettymuch screwed. You hire a master tradesman to do some work, that work will be solid ten years from the time work was done, you hire an amateur, then two years later you might be hiring someone to fix a mess.

Look at my last post above and hit the link follow the resources linked there even you are going to see a trend that is not for weak stomach people, if you follow the trends you may get a better Idea of how it is going to pan out

LOOK the idea of careers in America is dead

I don't want to even link you to related info like married men in the 30's being 18 being at 67% versus married men today being less then 18% this info alone is very telling about whats to come the career is over

This is slightly amusing

TI posted who I contract for, If you research any of my posts you'll clearly deduce I do not work for the gov, but test broken garbage for huge IT industries while I try to get my art on... sir I am sorry if I come across as a gov shill I am merely a disgruntled software test contractor (gov seriously??), now please do not derail this thread. ext

reply to post by Aliquandro

Whoa there.
You took my comment the wrong way. I wasn't serious. I was jokingly commenting that the environment you described sounded like a typical government installation, where just about everything is old, doesn't work right, and no one cares. IT WAS A JOKE. Sorry you didn't get the humor.

I think he was making the point about the government being disfunctional and clueless.

reply to post by TKDRL

Thanks. I'm glad you got my humor. I just responded to him, with as much, before I saw your explanation. Thanks. I guess I'll have to add the emoticons after such humor in the future.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Someone already pointed this out to me, it's easier to understand intended humor when you use some characters to convey it. no harm no foul

This is a terribly touchy subject for some, it has affected me greatly and I know the resentment shows. There are no more careers in my industry, none, just temp jobs. The only real careers in the tech field are managing all the overseas labor remotely it seems, oh or you can always just go to work for the recruiters and make your dirty money.

Oddly enough its been good inspiration for painting lately.