Mysterious Nano Structure Discovered by ChemCam (Sol343)

We can write it off as a trick of the light, image obfuscation, or a natural feature. Heck we can even come up with those old classics: swamp gas, rocks etc. etc.

What we cannot do is convincingly dismiss this unique discovery by the ChemCam instrument on MSL Curiosity on Sol343, that appears to show a small five or six-spoked wheel of-sorts lying in the Martian dirt:



The original picture can be viewed here:



Here is an annotated version:



It is notable that this particular object of interest has not been seen previously, though the presence of nano-material has been the subject of some discussion. It is not clear if this "nano-wheel" can be confirmed, as no other photographs covered the exact location. (See mars.jpl.nasa.gov... for all of that Sol's ChemCam pictures)

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I'd like to see what you see, but I think it's
time to get some glasses, 'cause all I see
are rocks and shadows. Sorry.
.

reply to post by snewpers


Yup, I agree. You need glasses.

reply to post by Blister


Awesome find. Thanks for posting this.

I was staring at it for a bit trying to see if maybe it could be a trick of the eye so to speak and just can't seem to figure it out. It sure does look a wheel thingy of some sort.

Also, if you look slightly above it and to the left, I see what looks like a partially uncovered one under the dirt. Looks like it may be bigger too.

However, maybe it's just shadows and such playing tricks eh?

reply to post by Blister


Nobody wants to see an unambiguous and unequivocal artifact in our solar system more than I do. But you've got to stop trying to make something of all these rocks. I see what you see; I just don't think it bears up to further examination.

Don't get me wrong: It's not just you. There are seemingly thousands of hopeful sleuths out there finding "artifacts" among the rocks. But sometimes a rock is just a rock. In fact, so far, it's apparent that all the rocks have just been rocks.

I say again, if there's anything there to see, NASA's going to make sure we don't see it. They deliberately search out the least interesting, most crushingly boring, and most embarrassingly barren places to land, specifically so that there will not be anything to see. And if it were there to be seen, you can be absolutely sure that they'll be sure we don't see it....

reply to post by Cherry0


Hi Cherry0,

Yeah same here. I wasn't sure what I saw the first time. I had to take another look before I could believe what I was seeing.

Now, if this is a natural feature or phenomena (such as a trick of the light) then, wow! It is a fantastic and amazing coincidence that Curiosity was right there, right then to get the picture. It is possible, but, I'm not sure the odds of nature throwing up a miniature spoked wheel thingy at semi-nano-scale is a feasible assumption.

If it is natural, then that is pretty amazing too. My natural assumption is that the object of interest is what it appears to be: a tiny spoked wheel of some sort. I also suggest that the surface of Mars may be littered with these things... the chances of photographing them though are low due to their being the equivalent to a needle in a haystack.

Awaiting a response from the ChemCam team at Los Alamos - will wait patiently for their response, if any.

reply to post by Ex_CT2


Fortunately, I seem to hold the folks at NASA, JPL etc., in slightly higher esteem than your good self. Sure their information policies are questionable, but to suggest they doctor the pics, only land where there is nothing of interest, or with hold the truth is as laughable as dismissing what these pictures show right in front of your eyes.

Just my opinion. Thanks for you highly valued input.

reply to post by Blister


Uh, yeah. Clearly my input was not that valued.

Have you looked at Mars? There are millions of interesting places they could have dropped their toys, and everything in sight would have been more interesting than miles and miles of desert and rock. They're not looking for anything interesting; they're playing games.

I sincerely hope your trust in NASA is not misplaced. Maybe sometime in the next thousand years they'll find something of interest. Maybe during that time they'll start looking in interesting places....

reply to post by Ex_CT2


And I suppose you'd be the first to complain when their $3 billion dollar machine lands on a boulder and is stranded before it even starts...

Originally posted by BlisterWhat we cannot do is convincingly dismiss this unique discovery by the ChemCam instrument on MSL Curiosity on Sol343, that appears to show a small five or six-spoked wheel of-sorts lying in the Martian dirt:

I am trying Blister, I really really am. I just don't see it. Not that I do not want to see something. I am totally game for that.

Nano? This is really a billionth of a meter in resolution and scale? The rocks all look big and crumbly to me like it is milliscopic. Here is an example shot of diamond cut and etched nano-material from one of the CA-photoscopes in my labs:


Ehhh, I am just not sure.

But keep at it man... I will listen.

reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic


Hey, many thanks for the reply. I agree, perhaps the use of the word "nano" is overworking things slightly...

However, I do maintain that the object seen is so unique and out of place that is does warrant study all of its own. Nowhere, has any camera on Mars seen anything even vaguely synthetic as has been highlighted.

If it is natural, then that is exciting all by itself! I look forward to finding more of these tiny things in future, though I am sure it will not be every day, week or year that we see them, sadly. But, fingers crossed.

Originally posted by Blister
reply to post by Cherry0

 

Hi Cherry0,

Yeah same here. I wasn't sure what I saw the first time. I had to take another look before I could believe what I was seeing.

Now, if this is a natural feature or phenomena (such as a trick of the light) then, wow! It is a fantastic and amazing coincidence that Curiosity was right there, right then to get the picture. It is possible, but, I'm not sure the odds of nature throwing up a miniature spoked wheel thingy at semi-nano-scale is a feasible assumption.

If it is natural, then that is pretty amazing too. My natural assumption is that the object of interest is what it appears to be: a tiny spoked wheel of some sort. I also suggest that the surface of Mars may be littered with these things... the chances of photographing them though are low due to their being the equivalent to a needle in a haystack.

Awaiting a response from the ChemCam team at Los Alamos - will wait patiently for their response, if any.

Yes, it's pretty neat. I mean, I see what you see for sure, just not sure what it is. I won't jump to any conclusions either but I'll stick around for any updates!
Thanks again. It's a cool lil' mystery.

Originally posted by Blister
We can write it off as a trick of the light, image obfuscation, or a natural feature.

OK done.

What we cannot do is convincingly dismiss this unique discovery by the ChemCam instrument on MSL Curiosity on Sol343, that appears to show a small five or six-spoked wheel of-sorts lying in the Martian dirt:

Wait, you just said we could write it off as a natural feature? Then you say we can't dismiss it, wasn't that dismissing it?

I see what you're looking at, though I only see a partial circle on the left. Inside it reminds me a little of a starfish or sand dollar, but I see the shape of a cow in the clouds too, but that doesn't mean there's really a cow in the clouds or that my pareidolia in the rocks has any significance other than pareidolia itself.

Any idea what the diameter of that partial circle is? I'm not looking for anything exact, but order of magnitude maybe?

reply to post by Blister


I'm sorry, but you're seing things. There's a vaguely circular shape, but definitely nothing "revolutionary" or "unprecendented". You and others on ATS make is look like the Curiosity team have no idea what they're doing, and need guiding from the public.

Given ChemCam's field of view, the "nanoscale" is more like millimeter scale: www.jpl.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Not sure on the dimensions. It is a very critical factor in analysis, but to be honest in this case what we have to work with is only a guess right now. Hopefully, LA enters into comm and we can find out.

At first assessment I would put the diameter of the object of interest at between 10-15 mm. That is surmising though - not based upon science. Of-course that makes the object anything but "nano" scale.

It is important to note that the Remote Micro-Imager (RMI) has an onboard image processing system:

Remote Micro-Imager (RMI) The heart of the RMI instrument is the flight qualified CCD and associated electronics which were developed for Smart-1, Rosetta, and Mars Express. The 1024 x 1024 pixel CCD has been qualified to an operating temperature range of -120 to +30ºC, and a survival range of -150 to +50ºC. In the flight-qualified set-up, it consumes 1.5 W, and has 10 bit/pixel resolution. The software allows exposure times between 2 milliseconds and 8 seconds, and has an algorithm for auto-selecting exposure times by taking images at four different exposure times and selecting the image that minimizes saturation and maximizes the pixels with greater than 25% of the dynamic range.

Source; www.msl-chemcam.com... 20does%20ChemCam%20work?&step=2#.UfjD9UpzXDc

My understanding of RMI is that it does not manipulate any image, rather it uses an algorithm to decide how to take a picture in the best way possible. Hopefully that precludes the pics in the OP from being the product of manipulation.

Click here for more information.

I'm with the majority of posters about the op. It is certainly interesting but I honestly do not think NASA would let us see an image of an old hubcap on mars. Unless they are filming in some desert on Earth...

But seriously, it has to be petra.

I'm saying petra because everyone else says rock and I think we need to spice it up a bit. It's Latin for rock by the way lol.

Also, I am surprised ATS does not have some geologist big cheese floating around to shoot down these like other threads are shot down... with authority.

Like this:

reply to post by Blister


I suggest you look at his posts he has a far greater understanding of this subject and digital imaging than you do

I think Ats needs a dedicated curiosity rock pictures sub forum, I personally have nothing against these threads, and am always curious why they get so many negative replies, this is ats afterall not the national geographic forum.

OP, nice find, it does look odd...not sure why the guys above can't see it...

reply to post by Blister


Ill play,

Me thinks me sees a petrified starfish.