Archbishop Tutu 'would not worship a homophobic God'

reply to post by theRhenn

We should love no mater what the affliction of another.

Wait. "Affliction"?

We should love all sinners, even if we shy away from the sin.

"Sinners"?
Brainwashed much?

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Not a sin according to the Arch bishop.

He must never have read the old testament.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by theRhenn

 

We should love no mater what the affliction of another.

Wait. "Affliction"?

We should love all sinners, even if we shy away from the sin.

"Sinners"?

Brainwashed much?

edit on 28-7-2013 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Yes.. Affliction.

Yes.. Sinners. Why is that a wow factor? Are you beyond letting others believe what they think is right? Or.. Would you rather bunch all of the people like me and put them outside your circle.. Or your world.. Or your country? How does that make you any different from me?

No.. Not at all.

I choose to believe this freely. It doesn't matter to me what you consider it. it's your opinion and mine is that you're wrong. How hard is that to understand?


Let me spell it out for you...

According to MY bible.. The very thing that defines the belief in the God people claim to follow today... Defines Christianity and most religions today... That noted the words of Jesus Christ... You know.. That book that is the genisis of at least 2 major world faiths...

.... SAYS it's a sin. Any other religion that claims to be christian, or followers of that same God, that does not believe that homosexuality is a sin... IS WRONG. They just assume write their own bible and have made up their own religion. They are not the same, nor should they be using the same bible if they choose to omit what they want.

Why would you use directions to build a robot if you omit some of the directions? oh wait... because you "think" you know how it goes. Well.. often that robot will be incomplete, or end up not working or just broken all together.

I dont understand how this is even questioned.

reply to post by theRhenn


It's none of your damned business what people do in their private rooms - and you're not supposed to "judge" others as "afflicted" for the way they are - or to call them "sinners" just because YOU don't think the same way they do.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by theRhenn

 

It's none of your damned business what people do in their private rooms - and you're not supposed to "judge" others as "afflicted" for the way they are - or to call them "sinners" just because YOU don't think the same way they do.

Actually, Christians believe that we are all sinners, so calling someone a sinner isn't (necessarily) judging them.

However, this point of theRhenn's

Any other religion that claims to be christian, or followers of that same God, that does not believe that homosexuality is a sin... IS WRONG.

is incorrect -- there is nothing in the Bible that says that being a homosexual is wrong. The sin in the act of sexual gratification outside of marriage, same as it is for heterosexuals. A celibate homosexual is not sinful, in the eyes of every flavour of Christianity I'm aware of (apart from the "we're all sinners" bit above.)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Are you a catholic?

"tutu" is a devil and he knows it.

because he created on purpose a complete Suggestive lockdown in his own statement.

"homophobic" itself is already a useless phrase: excluding any mercy.
but "homophobic God" is a monster statement

- first put someone into a corner by using suggestive statements
and then play hero by the False heroism of the "i will never worship a god like THAT ??? "

well done Tutu.
You lackey of the Dark.

apart from the Fact that it is a Most Pathetic attempt to get Friends with the people of the world,
using the chewed out topic of ' homosexuality ',
which has become a Chisel anyway, to Break Open any possible Life people could find by God ;
because the homosexuality topic is used for that similar to the auschwitz one :

"disagree: and we will expell you ".
Said, ofcourse, always by those few, who have the largest mouth.

...tutu and his cheap tricks... *spit*

why that hero dont say " i will never worship False Priests " ? like my own boss that pope ?
or "i will never worship a God who condamns False Shepherds"?

ofcourse he wouldnt. Cause he himself IS one.

reply to post by Lone12


Wrong he is saying it because in Africa homosexuality is illegal still in many countries and many gay folk are murdered because of it and also because he understands gods true message, love.
Tell me are you a catholic or?

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Lone12

 

Wrong he is saying it because in Africa homosexuality is illegal still in many countries and many gay folk are murdered because of it and also because he understands gods true message, love.
Tell me are you a catholic or?

*grin* no love i m not catholic

- your answer sounds true ; but that is but the excuse to can produce such a chisel statement.
Because the sunworshipping babylonian 'catholic church' couldnt care Less about 'africa'.
best they think to put a fence around it - and let them murder oneanother out.

no,
this is a statement , made for the WEST
to undermine the WEST further
- since west = about the Male attribute

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by theRhenn

 

It's none of your damned business what people do in their private rooms - and you're not supposed to "judge" others as "afflicted" for the way they are - or to call them "sinners" just because YOU don't think the same way they do.

You're right and I dont judge what you do in your bedroom, so long as you KEEP IT THERE.

We're not supposed to judge people AT ALL.. but i'm a sinner. I slip. Does that make homosexuality ok in my eyes? No. The object is to better yourself, to prevent sinning more. Not rinse, repeat the sin and rinse again.

It's not like saying *$#@ and saying your sorry. It's like saying *$#@ and saying it over while daring someone to stop you.

...and by the way... It's not what I say. It's what the bible that I believe in says. It's not like I'm making up my own rules here. That's where tutu comes in. He's doing that... not me.

How did you not see that coming?

reply to post by theRhenn

You're right and I dont judge what you do in your bedroom, so long as you KEEP IT THERE.

Cool, then. And, for the record, I'm heterosexual, mother of two young adults....

The problem with the "Bible" is that there are too many versions of it, that it has been mistranslated, edited, and changed around NUMEROUS (maybe even innumerable) times, and NONE OF IT can be proven.

But, I respect your right to believe in it.
Thanks for your response.

reply to post by adjensen


If you're not commiting the act, then how are you able to lable yourself?

That's like saying I'm a murderer but I never killed anyone.

I guess it could only apply if you put it on par with alcoholism.

"I dont drink but I used to drink too much so I'm an alcoholic". I dont really subscribe to it that way unless we admit homosexuality is a "disease". I think it's really like alcoholism, an addiction to perversion. Just because something turns one on, doesn't mean they have to perform it. I can agree with that.


But we're just playing with words here.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by theRhenn

 

You're right and I dont judge what you do in your bedroom, so long as you KEEP IT THERE.

Cool, then. And, for the record, I'm heterosexual, mother of two young adults....

The problem with the "Bible" is that there are too many versions of it, that it has been mistranslated, edited, and changed around NUMEROUS (maybe even innumerable) times, and NONE OF IT can be proven.

But, I respect your right to believe in it.
Thanks for your response.

No worries and you're welcome. And I as well, respect your opinion.



It is also true that the bible could have been watered down but this is also the old testiment and there are many other sources than just the bible. There are also scrolls found some 2 thousand years old that also compares to much of the old and new testiment. I would agree more if those documents differ. That tells me that over 2k years, there isn't a whole lot of difference when compared with soemthing that was buried for 2k years.

The old testament is an unchanging document, not just in christian hands but jewish also. Two faiths that do not subscribe to one another's belief system overall. I do still agree that words with similar meanings are used in translations often but the 2 seperate parts about homosexuality still stands in all documents.

Some say that "there was no word for homosexuality back then"... perhaps, but they still described the issue, no matter what word was used. I'm sure they didn't have a word for twinkie back then, but we sure eat them today. They would have called it simply a cake of sorts.

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by adjensen

 

If you're not commiting the act, then how are you able to lable yourself?

Simple.

"I'm attracted to the people of the same sex, but I am celibate and don't act on it." (That is not, by the way, a quote from me, lol.)

reply to post by adjensen


I see where you're coming from but I wonder why the lines got blured.

What I mean is.. Reading the NT and seeing how Jesus acted with his deciples, there was an obvious profound love there. I can understand this because I've had a few really really good friends.. Best friends with a capital F... who I loved "like a brother" and in truth, probably more. I trusted these few people with my lifes secrets. Would have died for them. If they had been a girl (we said this in jest but it held some truth) then I would have married them lol I believe close bonds, love, deep love like this is possible. Sexually I cant understand. I can understand in a manner of lust but not out of love. Love and sex are nearly seperate for me. There is a really fine line there for me. Maybe that's why I can't understand it the same. One doesnt require the other, and I dont believe that they have to go together. I understand that sex is better if love is involved but sex isn't required of love and love isn't required of sex.

That's kind of a crazy tongue/mind twisting subject.

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by adjensen

 

I see where you're coming from but I wonder why the lines got blured.

I do not believe that, for most people, homosexuality is a cognitive choice. Whether genetic or environmental remains to be seen, but there is an obvious point in some peoples' lives where, like it or not, that is their orientation (can one sympathize with an anguished teen, bullied for their sexuality, and yet claim that they should "just stop being gay" -- that seems rather unChristian, don't you think that if that was an option, they'd have done it?)

Again, a celibate homosexual is simply that, a celibate homosexual. Not engaging in homosexual activity does not magically turn one into a heterosexual, any more than not engaging in heterosexual activity turns one gay.

reply to post by adjensen


question is.. if you dont think about something, do you still crave it?

I woudln't think it's like a cig where you physically crave it. Sex, for me, is a state of mind whether or not I want it. I can choose not to think about it and my body and thoughts will not crave it. Can't say about dreams because I dont remember them. So i dont know. I can only use myself and my own personal knowledge as a basis. All of the knowledge I have about the situation comes from people in my family or really close friends who are gay and in all cases, they either have one of 2 issues... choice/preference (stems from sexual appatite in some way) and trama. I've never had a gay person tell me that they had no trama, no taboo sensation as a kid, or sexual experamental issue that desensitized them from making a difference or just by some sort of stimulation at a learning point in their lives, find themselves gay. Dont get me wrong, I would welcome that conversation but it would have to be with someone I knew and trusted. Anyone can say anything to back up their choice based on agenda.. bias if you will. Until then, I have to stick with my belief.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Are you a catholic?

Do you see that Menorah in my picture?

reply to post by theRhenn


Actually, no, the question is whether your statement that "homosexuality is wrong" is representative of "homosexuals are wrong", which I, as an orthodox Christian, utterly reject, and which is rejected by the vast majority of Christian denominations, or whether it is representative of "homosexual sexual acts are just as wrong as heterosexual sexual acts which take place outside of marriage," which is a statement that is accepted by most Christian denominations that I am aware of.

That's where Desmond Tutu, and Pope Francis, who made a similar statement today, are coming from -- it is no sin to be a homosexual, and it is not for us to judge anyone on that basis.